1% of 5% (if I have read this correctly minus glasses)

Significant? You decide…..

We must treat this information with a little caution, particularly the data for the last six months. Some nurses and midwives who left the register who lapsed may still be readmitting or planning to readmit soon to the register, and as such these numbers may come down a little over the next couple of months.

Mrs Egf is/was a nurse (& had to pay a registration fee of £120 per year ?)
Anyway, she’s was very ill in the summer of 2017 & spent 6 weeks (+ another 3 weeks later) in the hospital she works at. A lot of staff & nurses there are from India, mainly Kerala or Goa, & while i was in there visiting Sue I got chatting to most of them in general, & often asked how they thought Brexit would would affect them if at all. None of them were even slightly perplexed at the idea!
Another excellent nurse (David, from Winsconsin, daft as a lighthouse cat but a fantastic at his job) just laughed when I mentioned Brexit & said ‘who cares, I’m a stayin!’ (he’d just bought a house in Harrogate)

So, are we just talking about European workers or does no-one else matter?

There is no staffing crisis.

Brexit is not going to make it worse.

The NHS will not be damaged by Brexit.

Sleep well, and enjoy your private health cover Leave cheerleaders.

Classic moaning. When caught misrepresenting your own facts (sic), misrepresent what others are saying too. Bravo.

Sleep well

“City of dreams….”

esselgruntfuttock

Its only EU nurses affected by brexit and they have voted with their feet. this is not a prediction. What was a positive supply of nurses from the EU has turned into a net loss of nurses. This is hard fact.

Bravo.

Well, it wastes less time than trying to nail jelly to a wall.

Its only EU nurses affected by brexit and they have voted with their feet. this is not a prediction. What was a positive supply of nurses from the EU has turned into a net loss of nurses. This is hard fact.

Thanks TJ.

*books trip to India to do some recruiting*

So is Europe not the only continent in the world that the NHS can recruit from? (or can we get staff from the other 6 continents?)

Bemused of North Yorkshire.

Its harder to recruit from other countries. aus , NZ and us pay thier nurses more so not many of them willcome here. India sub continent nurses need to be retrained, fillipino nurses IIRC the same. visas are complex and expensive to get for non eu nurses. so yes we can recruit from other places than the EU but its much more difficult and expensive and the quality of staff is not so good as their training is less.

Its only EU nurses affected by brexit and they have voted with their feet. this is not a prediction. What was a positive supply of nurses from the EU has turned into a net loss of nurses. This is hard fact.

Not according to NHS England figures, number of EU nurses has gone up.

If it was the language test that was putting EU registrants off coming to the UK why is there no significant drop in non eu nurses?

We have a significant fall in EU nurses, no significant change of ROW nurses

Clear evidence of brexit affecting the nhs adversly.

mefty – Member

Its only EU nurses affected by brexit and they have voted with their feet. this is not a prediction. What was a positive supply of nurses from the EU has turned into a net loss of nurses. This is hard fact.

Not according to NHS England figures, number of EU nurses has gone up. [/quote]

NOpe – that is bollox from cherry picking numbers. Look at the NMC links that shows a huge fall in registrations of 95%.

The number of people from the EEA on the register has decreased by 2733 between September 2016 and September 2017. 1107 people from the EEA joined the register this year, a decrease of 89 percent from the previous year, when 10,178 people from the EEA joined the register. The number of people joining the register from the EEA decreased sharply in the last year, and the number of EEA nurses and midwives leaving the register increased by 67 percent from 2435 last year to 4067 this year.

https://www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/other-publications/the-nmc-register-30-september-2017.pdf

No it is the official NHS numbers sourced from their spreadsheets all linked on the previous page comparing actual numbers as at June 2017 to June 2016 – just comparison of absolutes.

NOpe – look at the NMC links for the real facts.

YOu are comparing total NHS workforce ie cleaners and porters whereas I am quoting figues for nurses in the UK

The rise in EU workers in the UK is down to an increase in the non registered staff. the registered nurses from the EU has dropped by 95% in a year.

Indisputable fact. stop conflating all NHS staff with registered nurses

Mefty – I cannot find any source in your links to the make up of NHS nuring staff by country of origin – link to the bit you think disproves the NMC? remember the NMC is the regulator. they hold files on every nurse in the UK

so yes we can recruit from other places than the EU but its much more difficult and expensive and the quality of staff is not so good as their training is less.

I wouldn’t say that about Jolie, Susan, Gladys, Thomas, Owen & 2 others who’s names I don’t recall. All from Kerala/Goa working on ITU (staff nurses & upwards)
Don’t recall ANY staff nurses on any of the wards Sue was on being from the EU, although ALL the cleaning staff were.
(just been reminded that a nurse called Luda was EU, & very good too)
The NHS can’t recruit UK staff with zilch training never mind refreshing non EU nurses.

Essel – they will have been retrained to UK standards ( if needed – its not always needed dependent on country)

Total NMC registrations are 690,000, total number of nurses in NHS England are less than half of that number so big gap between registrations and actual people doing the job.

My experience from working in the NHS is that EU nurses tend to be ok. NOn eu nurses are either good or awful. I have recently worked with two non eu nurses who are frankly dangerous – the worst I have ever seen. As a visitor you don’t see the whole story but without overseas nurses both eu and non eu the nhs would collapse

mefty – Member

Total NMC registrations are 690,000, total number of nurses in NHS England are less than half of that number so big gap between registrations and actual people doing the job.

NBope – you forget the non nhs workforce which is of similar size ( care homes, agencies, non nhs hospitals). very few people and almost no overseas nurses will pay £120 a year and go thru a very time consuming process to retain registrations if not working and a loss in the total nursing workforce nhs or non nhs impacts on the NHS by creating shoratages

also you are confusing england and UK

If you want to debate this stuff you need to learn a fair bit more

I am not confusing anything, I have been quite clear I have been looking at NHS England data as that is freely available and well presented and quite clearly shows despite all the scare stories the number of nurses from the EU has gone up in the last year. It is all in the data, just follow the links.

I haven’t looked at the facts Mefty but as my Mrs has said, recruitment for NHS nurses/staff has dropped dramatically in the last few years (don’t need ‘facts’ when your’e a nurse do you?
However, as I implied, there were more non EU staff (from India) working in the hospital the Mrs Egf worked in/was a patient in, than EU staff.
*I agree/understand that this may be a different situation in other parts of the country.*

mefty – Member

I am not confusing anything, I have been quite clear I have been looking at NHS England data as that is freely available and well presented and quite clearly shows despite all the scare stories the number of nurses from the EU has gone up in the last year. It is all in the data, just follow the links

mefty – Member

Total NMC registrations are 690,000, total number of nurses in NHS England are less than half of that number so big gap between registrations and actual people doing the job.

Well why then do you muddle up nurses on the register UK wide with nurses working for NHS england? ONly half of the nurses in the UK work in the NHS in england

If you are not confused over this you are deliberately obscuring the simple fact that the number of EU nurses joining the register has dropped from plus 800 a month to minus 350 a month.

So financial services. Another place where brexit is causing huge damage.

According to Jamba above a deal is being done and the UKs financial services are going to be unaffected. Why then have Davies and Hammond been begging cap in hand to Germany?

Philip Hammond and David Davis have made a direct appeal to German business leaders to help them forge a Brexit deal to secure the future of Britain’s financial services.

The chancellor and Brexit secretary travel to Germany on Wednesday on a charm offensive they hope will shift the EU’s implacable opposition to services being included in a final deal.

Useless gesture. Germany has made it clear that they will not break ranks and Germany is well placed to take financial services jobs – indeed many have gone there already.

No chance of a deal on financial services

Their trip comes just weeks after the EU warned that a deal involving the City of London was not on the table as long as the UK insisted on exiting the single market.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/10/davis-and-hammond-make-plea-to-germany-in-pursuit-of-brexit-deal

Britain’s decision to leave the EU has already caused havoc in the financial services sector with thousands of jobs in corporate banking, asset management and insurance being moved to Frankfurt, Luxembourg, Amsterdam, Paris and Dublin.

Davis has claimed the UK can have a bespoke deal described as a “Canada plus plus plus” which would be similar to the EU trade deal with Canada “plus the best of Japan, the best of South Korea and the bit that is missing, which is the services”.

While the EU has argued that this is impossible,

TJ it would be very helpful if you stopped making things up at the start of the day. Ok your scare stories on NHS have now been falsified – thanks for the links that did this as they were very helpful in putting the impact on the NHS into its correct context BTW – but that does not mean that you need to make things up about “havoc” in other industries such as banking.

The scale of job moves has been scaled back very significantly. UK banks are all well placed for each scenario and a deal of some sort is extremely likely. Yes, Jambas got the wrong end of the stick re Barnier’s comments yesterday but that is different

The EU’s own analysis indicates that no European city has the collection of benefits that had made London the #1 global financial centre and the the fragmentation of European wholesale markets carries costs for Europe too. They are very clear on this.

So be a good chap and stop making scare stories up

Thanks again for the helpful links to the NHS data. Must admit I thought it was a much bigger deal but happy to be corrected there 😉

So thm what do you think the impact of brexit will be on the NHS?

As above, negative but manageable and thanks to TJs data seemingly less negative that I previously thought

but manageable

We have seen how Hunt manages negative impacts this week. Just cancel a months worth of operations.

My friends in the NHS (nurses and doctors) all say it is running on vapours..

teamhurtmore – Member
As above, negative but manageable

You genuinely believe that don’t you?

Incredible.

As above, negative but manageable

Your opinion. In some areas of the country you are simply wrong. And the sudden drop in EEA/EU nurses moving to those areas is a major part of this, even if you would rather pretend otherwise. See also huge rise in costs due to our post Brexit vote weaker currency.

The EU’s own analysis indicates that no European city has the collection of benefits that had made London the #1 global financial centre….

True. Other cities have a lot of catching up to do. A lot.

http://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/brexit-folgen-fuer-frankfurter-wohnungsmarkt-und-schulen-15382819.amp.html

THM earlier

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/nothing_to_see_here_naked_gun.gif%5B/img%5D

Leku – as ever, important to understand the root causes even if it is convenient to blame Brexshit. Interestingly Brexshiteers tried the same trick by blaming the Eu and all the foreigners. You chose which is less correct.

Yep, Frankfurt is going to be THE place to be in the financial sector.

Could we repurpose the City into a theme park?

Zip wires from the taller buildings. Others used for urban paint balling? 🙂

The Leave cheerleaders would call that “rebalancing”.

Each of the Uk banks have chosen different bases for the EU subsidiaries – so FKT is not a clear winner. All that is happening is that wholesale financial markets are in danger of being fragmented.

The losers include Eu corporates who will have access to smaller pools of capital at higher prices. Lose: lose again.

Lose: lose again.

Yup.

Some geographical areas gain, but he rEU as a whole loses as we Leave. As do we. Let’s keep cheerleading…

You’re going to have to think of a new strategy on here, THM. You’ve now accused just about every one of your adversaries of lying and making things up when it takes very few keyboard strokes to check and find that they aren’t.

The losers include Eu corporates who will have access to smaller pools of capital at higher prices.

You’re completely ingnoring how the markets work and how corporates finance here. Investors are actively searching out investment opportunities, people are richly paid to seek out return. There’s a mountain of money seeking a profitable home and it matters not a jot whether it goes through Frankfurt, Paris or London. In the modern world money always finds it’s way to where it’s needed.

In fact I would argue the contrary position, more local markets/bank in the EU rather than London will allow easier, closer contacts with local entrepreneurs in local languages rather than having to go through London in English.