TJ the NHS now requires an English certificate for nursing applicants. The drop off in numbers is almost entirely due to that. I asked my friend who works in HR for the NHS

BTW there is a really interesting chart of EU vs non-EU nationality for nurses in the NHS. Non-EU used to be much much higher before the Eastern European nations joined. It can be higher again if necessary.

Barnier doing more backtracking from his (daft) no bespoke deal / no services deal comment. Supposedly said that UK banking law/regulation may be formally recognised by the EU allowing pretty free access. Not a surprise as the EU couldn’t replace UK skills / expertise and markets any time soon and not without many billions in investment in regulatory infrastructure.

Send your mate the NHS advice as what they told you was wrong

http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/recruit/employment-checks/professional-registration-and-qualification-checks/copy-of-language-competency-guidance

Supposedly said

have you got a link.

No problem getiing all the banking expertise needed, there’ll son be a surplus in London, though I have to say that the banking experts on this forum seem to be anything but expert.

Not sure you correct on Barnier Jambas

Just some waffle about equivalence – no really! We have been at the heart of financial regulation – often when Europeans want to water it down eg France and Basle 4 – so the idea that the Uk would not be granted third country equivalence is laughable

Still he has an audience to satisfy

jambalaya – Member

TJ the NHS now requires an English certificate for nursing applicants. The drop off in numbers is almost entirely due to that. I asked my friend who works in HR for the NHS

Cite? Oh no you can’t its a friend that told you

EU nurses I have met and thats plenty have no issue in meeting a minimum styandard for english. Non EU ones very much more difficulty. Nor does that explain the doubling of those leaving the register.

jambalaya – Member

Barnier doing more backtracking from his (daft) no bespoke deal / no services deal comment. Supposedly said that UK banking law/regulation may be formally recognised by the EU allowing pretty free access

Link? – i’d be interested to see that as it would be the first major change in stance from the EU and its clear they want the financial services that serve the EU based in the EU.

Interestingly a year or two ago when I wanted to tax these guys fairly you said they would all flee to Europe if the tax rate went up. Now you say they won’t move to Europe to follow the work.

Perhaps if people stopped scaremongering EU citizens about life after Brexshit then the situation would not be as bad as they fear. Plus if other countries are able to hire substantial numbers of foreign health staff without FoM there is no reason why we can’t either – unless folk want to exaggerate for effect

jambalaya

Barnier doing more backtracking from his (daft) no bespoke deal / no services deal comment. Supposedly said that UK banking law/regulation may be formally recognised by the EU allowing pretty free access.
Not a surprise as the EU couldn’t replace UK skills / expertise and markets any time soon…

Yeah, our highly skilled bankers did a great job for the UK 10 years back.

Thank Christ they weren’t incompetent, greedy, gamblers eh?…

For a bit of balance though TJ, an ex colleague of mine has just left the prison service to become a nurse. (& up to now is absolutely loving it)
Out of the frying pan, etc?

Yeah, our highly skilled greedy bankers did a great job for the UK 10 years back.

FTFY

Pretty similar job in many ways. On your feet all day, have to be nice to scrotes etc

so the idea that the Uk would not be granted third country equivalence is laughable

Britain had better clean up its act then because a lot of European countries are sore about the UK’s role in “tax optimisation”, it’s dealing with tax havens, the status of British dependancies. The Spanish tax collector is losing revenue on AirB&B rentals because of a dodge involving a Gibralta based payment system which is opaque – the cheek of it.

Al this fiscal dumping and help with tax evasion is on th eagenda of countries with a veto so Britain is going to have to deal with them or fail to get a deal.

I told you I enjoyed your posts!

LANGUAGE TESTS HIT EU NURSING RECRUITMENT CRISIS HARDER THAN BREXIT

IELTS test introduced in January 2016

Its not what the NMC say nor is it credible given that there is IME no problem with EU nurses and speaking english.

😀

Plus if other countries are able to hire substantial numbers of foreign health staff without FoM there is no reason why we can’t either – unless folk want to exaggerate for effect

Which other countries? Are they equivalent to the uk?
How many is “substantial”? Is that enough?
Where are these “substantial” numbers? Sitting around doing nothing?
Do these “substantial” numbers meet uk medical standards?
What will it cost the NHS to employ/administer these “substantial“ numbers who will presumably require work visas? Can it afford it?
Will we have to out-bid other countries to employ foreign staff if they aren’t just doing nothing?
Have we really met the intent of the Brexit vote if all we’re doing is replacing EU workers with “even more foreign” equivalents?

It’s really easy to just come out with a waffly statement. Look forward to the collateral that backs it up with the reality of hard facts and thought-through consequences.

We get more nurses and doctors from the ROW than the EU already.

No reason why Eu nationals need to leave other than scaremongering

Aus and Canada and similar third world countries to us 😉 Less than 50% of Aussie medical staff are Aussie born. They cope. So can we

Gov most likely to treat NHS staff differently/prioritise

Still keep scaremongering….

[a lot more]

They don’t “need to leave” now but many may reasonably choose to do so. I know of EU academics who have chosen to pursue their careers elsewhere. I don’t currently “need” e-residency of Estonia either but am considering setting it up anyway as doing so would eliminate one possible hiccup in participating in a planned H2020 bid. It’s all about preparing for brexit, I thought you were in favour of that….

Yes mefty – and most ROW nurses have to be retrained in the UK as their qualifications are not accepted by the NMC. takes 6 months to a year depending on the country. Also visas are tricky to get and expensive and take time.

I love it. Hard factual evidence of Brexit causing huge problems in recruitment and retention of EU nurses increasing the pressures on the NHS and loads of nonsensical distortions from leavers and tory fantasists to tyry to explain why this is not an issue.

Its a huge issue and its very damaging

Anyone mentioned the “immigration skills charge” yet?

special deal for foreign nhs staff, maybe farmers , students , who else ?
builders ?

This Brexit plan is really going well 😉

No reason why Eu nationals need to leave other than scaremongering

And being spat at, insulted, intimdated, and told to “**** off to where you came from” by Brexit fueled xenophobes.

Edit: having driven a Peugeot 605 on French plates in Britain during the BSE provoked ban on British beef I can assure you that some Brits need little or no justification for being properly nasty to foreigners.

Huge issue in remoan speak – some of 4% segment of workforce may leave for various reasons including scaremongering, language tests etc

God help us when a real huge issue comes alone – “gargantuan” issue? We will have run out of superlatives well before then

“Now now young man, let’s have a look at the catastrophic splinter you have there.”

I know UK nationals who have left the NHS in the last year due to the hell of working in understaffed areas of the UK. Remember, some areas of the UK more dependant on EU/EEA staff than others, the “problem” is not evenly spread. Of course, the problem isn’t that we have benefited from Spanish and Portuguese nurses in the South of England, it is that they can easily move somewhere else to stay in the EU/EEA. Why wouldn’t they? And without them, the working conditions of “native” staff becomes harder… and then they look to elsewhere as well.

due to the hell of working in understaffed areas of the UK.

Edukator – Reformed Troll

No reason why Eu nationals need to leave other than scaremongering

And being spat at, insulted, intimdated, and told to “**** off to where you came from” by Brexit fueled xenophobes.[/quote]

and being told they will have to register and be treated as second class citizens losing rights they previously had in the UK

Create a hostile atmosphere and people are voting with their feet by the thousand.

And being spat at, insulted, intimdated, and told to “**** off to where you came from” by Brexit fueled xenophobes.

But enough about the Costa del Sol…

“Now now young man, let’s have a look at the catastrophic splinter you have there.”

A quick Quant check shows people have suffered amputations and died from slinters of one type or another.

Edit: Ninfan made me smile, I feel dirty.

If we are on to silly/irrelevant anecdotes Ed, I was in the crowd at Twickenham heartily singing the French national anthem and cheering on les blues versus NZ in the RWC at the same time

We thoroughly embraced nos Amis and I won the pot in the sweepstake too. Brothers in arms with the French!!

Not that either is relevant here. Tant pis

and being told they will have to register and be treated as second class citizens losing rights they previously had in the UK
Create a hostile atmosphere and people are voting with their feet by the thousand.

the percentage of leavers with EU nationality was still lower in 2016/17 than the percentage of joiners with EU nationality.

Page 8: http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7783/CBP-7783.pdf

Have to register? Really? What a bloody cheek? We will be asking them to pay tax next?

So are the skills for filling in a registration form too demanding for a nurse? I hope note.

Good job no one has mentioned protecting EU citizens rights. Still keep scaremongering and you moaners might scare even more off

silly/irrelevant anecdotes Ed

followed by a sillier, less relevent anecdote…

Bye for now… .

Indeed, glad you got the point

(The use of a plural noun was the giveaway)

the percentage of leavers with EU nationality was still lower in 2016/17 than the percentage of joiners with EU nationality.

completely misleading – check the NMC figures which are the definitive figures for those joining and leaving the register in the UK. 18 months ago ago we had a net balance of plus 800 a month ie 800 more EU nurses join the register than leave. 6 months ago it was a net fall of 350 eu nurses per month. and the trend is accelerating.

Hard robust figures from the folk who actually count the number of nurses registered to work in the UK

Here is the link again to the facts presented without political spin from the source.
https://www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/special-reports/nmc-eu-report-june-2017.pdf

Huge net loss of EU nurses with an accelerating trend. Fact. Unspinnable

350/800 out of a total staff of over one million.

Statistical noise

Clearly spinnable

Overall the number of EU trained nurses and midwives on our register has grown steadily since April 2010, but has declined slightly since September 2016.

Relief to read that harassment was not one of the three reasons given for the drop. Apparently it’s a growing problem

ninfan – Member

350/800 out of a total staff of over one million.

Statistical noise

actually the NHS nursing workforce is around a quarter of a million. losing a few % a year at an accelerating rate is significant.

still – it was aobvious the tory fantasists and leavers would attempt to explain this away as insignificant even tho its clearly not.