‘Ethic’ as a name will rather imply to most people an ethical element to the product line.

Maybe its a alluding to the ethics of riding an ebike if you don’t have any kind of disability.

Or riding a motorized vehicle in places where motorized vehicles are not allowed.

I think it looks pretty good, nicer than that carbon bike Bird released a while ago.

So Shimano treat their motors as disposable? We shouldn’t be surprised, they treat their brakes and other components as disposable as well – when was the last time you could buy a rebuild kit for Deore, SLX, Zee or XT brakes? Or even a spare part.

In my opinion this is a massive failing for the company (and a lot of other bike companies).

I do like the Bosch motor, although not tried a Shimano one yet but if the Bosch can be serviced and reconditioned by 3rd parties and Shimano can’t then that will be a big factor for me when choosing an ebike

@convert

The name Ethic may be confused by some with the word ethical, but I hope you agree that the “al” makes a big difference in the meaning of the word.

@Lummox

The Ethic will feel like a natural progression from the same size AM9 V3. I’ve updated the geometry somewhat. 64 degree head angle with a 160mm fork, and a steeper seat angle too (that varies between the sizes)

Not really. Ask 100 people what associated words they would think of in relation to the brand name ‘Ethic’ and I think we both know what they’d be.

Maybe its a alluding to the ethics of riding an ebike if you don’t have any kind of disability

What are they?

Or riding a motor assisted vehicle in places where fully motorized vehicles are not allowed.

FTFY, what’s the problem?

E-bikes have been in mainstream MTBing for 6 getting on 7 years now, and aren’t going away. You would have thought folk would have got over this by now eh?
Bike looks pretty good IMO, all relative like, dare we ask the weight?

Will Shimano let you sell it frame only, that’s the key question for me!

My current bike is 25kg, that’s with 170mm Zebs, a Formula Mod coil shock and Rimpact Pros front and rear on Hope/EX511 rims.

I’m not sure how I can make it any heavier to be honest 😂

I actually only noticed the extra weight for the first hour keep so of riding. Then I adjusted and its feels normal now.

Will Shimano let you sell it frame only, that’s the key question for me!

this – more likely to buy an ebike if I could get a frame and motor. No interest in buying a whole new bike when I have decent parts on my current one.

@snotrag

I’m not aware of any restrictions on us selling it frame only (with all the bits you need to make it work, and pre-programmed for a specific wheel size) , and we are planning on doing so.

Having said that, I’ll double check with Shimano closer to launch.

The name Ethic may be confused by some with the word ethical, but I hope you agree that the “al” makes a big difference in the meaning of the word.

Not really 0- I am hugely confused by this statement.

to me ones ethic is philosophy you live by.  Ethical is following the accepted ethic of your community

“Use putoline – thousands of miles of life from a drivetrain!”

If only that was true – I’ve used Putoline on my Levo from pretty early on. By 1000 miles the cassette is wrecked to the point it’s almost unrideable. Changing chains doesn’t work because they stop meshing within less than a few hundred miles.

I love ebikes but the chains and cassettes are a serious weak point.

Bird-E looks cool!

@chiefgrooveguru

I’m looking forward to testing the new Shimano Linkglide drivetrain to see if it delivers on the promise of longer life

“ I’m looking forward to testing the new Shimano Linkglide drivetrain to see if it delivers on the promise of longer life”

I look forward to the results! I have a small pile of 11 speed cassettes and chains to get me through the worsening parts drought of the coming years but I’m ready to swap to Linkglide if it does what it claims!

Could have flipped the letters of bird around and called it ribd. For you pleasure…..

Being an E-bike I can’t help but read it as E-thic. Probably not what was intended.

Also not convinced by the name, too many connotations that an aluminium framed, battery containing, high carbon footprint toy can’t really fulfil.

I do like bird-E though……

Good looking bike imo, chonky and solid looking. Name doesn’t really work for me either and yep I think it has a connotation like “we are a really ethical bike company and are carbon neutral and weave frames out of hemp”. But mostly I don’t want a bike with ETHIC written down the side in massive letters.

But I’m pretty confident it’ll ride great.

It’s a good looking bike, like all Bird bikes. their graphics generally look like an afterthought to me.

will they be made in Britain like all Bird bikes?

Don’t all systems pedals turn in walk mode?

No idea, but still it’d be more shin/clothing-friendly if they didn’t.

wouldn’t the pedals be forced to turn if the motor is moving the chain to turn the back wheel?

ethic is not a good name if there isn’t an ethical element to the product and for a company that advertises suspension frame prices without including a shock, it’s a particularly poor choice.

Being an E-bike I can’t help but read it as E-thic. Probably not what was intended

+1, in thicest Yorkshire accent possible.

@lat (and others who have commented on the name)

The word Ethic (as in, this is our ride ethic, work ethic, design ethic) does not mean the same thing as the word “Ethical”.

What we learned from the Bird brand is that the actual word (Bird or Ethic) doesn’t matter. What matters is how your products perform and how you treat your customers. Branding is much, much more than one word.

We had to launch our Ebikes under a new brand due to someone else holding the trademark for “Birdy” Ebikes. Due to similarity rules you can’t also have Bird Ebikes.

Ethic is the new brand, the first Ebike under that brand will also have a name that we haven’t released yet.

Happy to answer more questions about the bike, but can we move on from “I don’t like that it’s called Ethic” please?

No such thing as bad publicity though is there? A bit of chat about the name has lodged it in my brain and if I was in the market for an ebike (I’m not) then the name wouldn’t come into my decision making at all.

I’ll just chip in on the definition of “Ethic”. As Dan has said  ethics are just a set of moral principles. Which individuals may or may not agree with. In a broad sense Fascism has its own ethics  as does communism. Opposite ends of the political spectrum (unless you subscribe to the horseshoe theory, but that’s a different discussion) with ethical principles that are an anathema to those of differing political persuasions.

That being the case, calling a brand Ethic at worst implies that it is run on a set of broad principles, but isn’t in anyway stating what those principles are.

In brief, those confusing Ethic with ethical (and bear in mind that ethical in itself can mean different things to different people) need to do two minutes of research before self righteously frothing all over the keyboard.

Nice looking bike by the way. Though that stuff about the Shimano motors is concerning

In brief, those confusing Ethic with ethical (and bear in mind that ethical in itself can mean different things to different people) need to do two minutes of research before self righteously frothing all over the keyboard.

I agree with this, and I got a first in ethics (not in Essex) so I should know.

😉

But more generally, who really gives a shit? I’d have tried to pick something ornithological, though I see “Wing” ebikes appears to be taken. But Dan is right, the marketing messaging and execution is more important than the name (I work in marketing myself).

I’d say the only person self righteously frothing here is you. I’d go and check your bloody pressure fella. 😏

You may or may not be right about the entomology of the term ethic. We all live by some sort of ethic and that may or may not be a positive one. As it happens I’d say Bird do have a good ethic towards their customer base so maybe that what was being inferred.

But regardless of what “2 minutes of research” would achieve I’ll say again….go ask 100 people for a set of key words a new brand call “Ethic” wants to espouse about itself and there would be a very clear direction of travel.

It just seems a very curious choice in a language of millions of words to choose from if you don’t want it to be a topic of conversation – as Dan clearly doesn’t 😏

But more generally, who really gives a shit?

This.

Maybe it’s about their work ethic? As said above (but pretty much ignored by everyone complaining) ethic and ethical mean very different things.
Bezos and Musk have a set of ethics that they work with, but you’d probably not call either of them ethical.

I can’t see the pic due to work VPN… but is it LLS like the Aethers ?

Due to similarity rules you can’t also have Bird Ebikes.

What about E-grit?

Good name for an E-Gravel bike 👌
You can have that for nothing.

wouldn’t the pedals be forced to turn if the motor is moving the chain to turn the back wheel?

No there is a frreewheel between the pedals and the motor.  If the pedals are turning ( not just a bit from drag but under motor power) then something is wrong with the motor.  watch the chainring when you stop pedalling – it continues to turn for half a turn or so.

ethic and ethical mean very different things.

Really?  Please explain because to me ethic is your own personal code and ethical is following the code of your community – same word from same root with the same meaning

Happy to answer more questions about the bike, but can we move on from “I don’t like that it’s called Ethic” please?

I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s just STW’ers doing what they do.

In the real world people will only care how good the bike is. I’m looking forward to more information. I’m not in the market yet but there’s a gnarly, e-powered MTB in my near future that’s for certain.

the actual word (Bird or Ethic) doesn’t matter.

+1

What matters is how your products perform

+100

how you treat your customers

+1000

Good old STW! @danbird has been good enough and transparent enough to come on here and discuss a pre-release product and the pedants come out of the woodwork and whine about the brand name. I guess we could debate the etymology of “Giant”, “Trek”, “Transition”, etc… but I doubt a representative of those companies would patiently and politely join in. It reminds me of the instant, anti-social responses to any of @repackriders posts.

but can we move on..

I laugh in the face of your naivety 😆

@danbird
what is the rough price for this going to be?
when do you think you will have them for sale ?
I know you are using bennachie bikes as a dealer but do you have anyone lined up that’s west of Scotland or central belt?

@stevie750

Final pricing isn’t worked out yet, but it’ll be similar to Bird bikes in that you’ll be able to customise the build through the website, and they’ll be great value too.

We are looking at partnering with local shops / demo centres so that we can provide more local support for the Ebikes.

@benpinnick will be able to share more details on our plans for local service center / sales partners

ethic is not a good name if there isn’t an ethical element to the product and for a company that advertises suspension frame prices without including a shock, it’s a particularly poor choice.

To do otherwise with regards frame pricing would be oddly unethical I would say (in the traditionally accepted sense). Forcing people to purchase products they don’t need and at a price they didn’t need to pay in order we squeeze a few more pounds profit on that frame sale. We don’t ‘advertise’ in the normal sense, and nor do we control the copy of websites (other than Pinkbike to a certain extent) so you’d not find a ‘ad’ with a picture of a frame and shock and a big £xxx price tag anywhere, and if you saw it in a mag or bike website then sorry, but I can also tell you that probably 50% of articles ever written on our bikes contain some inaccuracy in terms of the spec sent (and hence the price you’d pay) thats created during the process of the copy writing for the mag. Thats the nature of the beast and out of our control as we don’t get to see it before it hits print but its usually minor and probably doesn’t materially impact a purchasing decision.

So where would you see it? On our site of course, as a ‘From’ price. Thats where I guess. Why is it like that? Because that is the from price. Around 1 in 15, maybe more, of FS frames are sold without shocks. We offer that because we don’t believe its right to force someone to buy something they don’t need (when its a complex, expensive and very obviously needed part). We do offer frame-specific tune shock options from just £160 so its not like we’re selling the frame cheap and then robbing you blind for the shock afterwards either. Nor did we make some proprietary shock mount or size to lock you into our products. Each component’s price is set fairly and relative to the cost it costs us, and you choose what you do and don’t want.

We do however strive to maintain standards as long as they are still relevant and the best* choice. That means that our customers can often swap models with minimal new parts needed including no need for a new shock, and we also sell frames to people getting shocks we don’t supply too. Since we choose to stay with shock fitment styles and lengths/strokes that are widely available you can choose a shock from virtually any manufacturer you want. We do RockShox, Canecreek, Fox and EXT right now, and are adding FAST and Formula for 2022 but you can still find a good number more that might float your boat, and if they do, great. We offer free advice to any shock tuner wanting to build a shock for one of our bikes on behalf of a customer (even if they bought the bike second hand – there’s no qualifier) and spend a reasonable amount of time supporting them to do so.

So back to the From Price. Thats calculated by the e-commerce system as the cheapest way to buy that frame. You can buy a shock, you can not buy a shock. It’s your choice. The same applies to all the other components bar the basics like mech hanger, cable clips and axle if its ‘custom**’. In order to make the ‘from’ price include a shock, I would need to remove the choice of having no shock. Which would make no sense at all.

So there you go. Thats our way of doing things and we’re not going to be changing it anytime soon. We’ll be offering the new eBike as a frame + motor option and full bike assuming no one tells us we can’t, yes you’ll still have to add a shock if you want one, but all those people with 145s, AM160s and AM9s or any bike with a standard mounting 230 x 65 (which includes most 60/62.5 shocks too) will be able to reuse their shocks onto that frame if they wish (Some retuning might be advised on certain shock models, but not all).
I’d say as a business we have a pretty strong ethic in terms of how we build bikes and treat our customers. Whether that makes us ethical in the broadly interpreted sense is a different question.

* Best doesn’t necessarily mean technically the most stiff/lightest/strongest/shiniest. It’s a blend of function and practicality, which includes things like whether a customer is likely to have a box of compatible parts at home, and often whether its going to enable a customer to port from one frame of ours to another. With or without a new shock.

** We do make custom axles, however we do ensure they’re backwards compatible with the mainstream versions. For example your Aether 9c would come with a custom axle as it gives the frame a nice clean line at that part of the frame, however you could run it with a stock Maxle/Brand X/Burgtec etc. in UDH Boost spec. They all work – we made sure our design didn’t preclude the aftermarket options too for when you need to buy one in a hurry.

E-grit is a work of genius!

Bezos and Musk have a set of ethics that they work with, but you’d probably not call either of them ethical.

Great example. So if Bezos came out with an Amazon sub-brand called “Ethic” with the same business model to the Amazon brand and said – “Ha, well I never said Ethical did I, I just liked the word”, do you think the general consensus would be “well, fair enough” or would it be “you cheeky ****!”

I’m not sure if comparing Dan and Ben to Geoff Bezos is a compliment or a massive slur! Their ethics towards customers and staff are certainly very different!

@danbird

I’d be interested to know a bit more about the “options with our partners to allow customers to access the bikes without the high upfront costs of purchase or the maintenance overhead”

Will it be a simple 0% finance style deal, or something more revolutionary? To be honest if/when I get one it’ll be via R2W like a bought my 145LT, but I’ve got a background in Asset Finance and find new funding methods interesting (I’ve sought help for it, but it’s incurable).

Good old STW! @danbird has been good enough and transparent enough to come on here and discuss a pre-release product and the pedants come out of the woodwork and whine about the brand name.

It wasn’t whining by me – I just said I thought it odd and made a joke at my expense as to why I found it odd then when people were claiming that the two words had differnt meanings asked them to explain.  Your point is quite valid tho

It reminds me of the instant, anti-social responses to any of @repackriders posts.

Repackrider deserves everything he gets.  He makes grandiose claims and is quite honestly rather nauseating in his false bragging