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  • Ethic e-bike by Bird
  • Premier Icon bikesandboots
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    Tidbits have been coming out for a while – today there’s a Street Pigeon video with some prototypes and lots of info – probably of interest, we have a few Bird fans here. Basically a full-fat e-bike AM9, the prototype linkage is labelled “EM9” although I’ve only read/heard the brand name so far.

    • 170mm front, 160mm rear travel (at the moment)
    • Shimano EP8
    • Mid-pivot with idler and lower guide
    • 440mm chainstay
    • Mullet-capable (27.5/2.8 or 29/2.5 (+8mm)) with chainstay flip chip

    Will be interesting to see what the ownership (or, own nothing and be happy?) looks like, given their remarks in the above linked article.

    My discerning remarks about relatively minor things:
    Logo on the downtube is… just no, too bold/big, I notice it more than the actual bike. I’d get it vinyl wrapped immediately.
    Colour-matched cover for the battery compartment could be tidy.
    Charge port is in the worst possible location, in the line of crap, and exactly where you’d want to put a downtube protector (I’m sure this has been thought of, it’s just so obvious).
    Button on the top tube is where I often have my Garmin, can we have it moved forward please.
    Bottle bosses for a tool carrier in that space in front of the shock mount please.
    Shimano, please make the pedals not turn in walk mode.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Just heli tape over the charging port, me and every other riding buddy I know don’t use it anyway, take battery out to charge it and give it a wipe down while you do.

    Don’t all systems pedals turn in walk mode? my Bosch certainly does. Doesn’t bother me, what does is that it’s too quick, walk mode needs slowed down as it’s only ever used on really steep greasy stuff, and you ain’t keeping up with it!.

    Garmin watch means no need for dedicated bike unit, if you really need nav, the Kiox unit on mine does it, never used shimano but expect it could too?.

    Premier Icon moonsaballoon
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    Generally speaking I don’t really like how e bikes look but I think that looks pretty smart in a kind of rugged purposeful way . Dan said on social media yesterday that there won’t be stock till 2023 !

    Premier Icon sharkattack
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    Meh. Looks like an e-bike. The downtube logo is gopping though. Surely that bit won’t make it to the production bikes.

    By the time they’re in stock I might be old enough to need one.

    Premier Icon chestrockwell
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    Looks terrible, even by gopping ebike standards imo.

    Premier Icon sharkattack
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    Video now unavailable. Did someone jump the gun?

    Premier Icon chakaping
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    They could at least have filmed the test video in Ethics – an e-bike would be really handy in the Epping Forest winter slop.

    Premier Icon chakaping
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    Video now unavailable. Did someone jump the gun?

    The filmer was getting a load of stick in the comments for naming the trails, which are apparently subject to a “no advertising” agreement with the landowner.

    Premier Icon convert
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    Says is quietly….quite like the logo.

    But…..”Ethic”? Is there some element of sustainability or ethical manufacturing in the design/manufacture of this sub-brand I’m not aware of? Ethic would be a great name for an ebike company making bikes that were getting folk out of cars in cities…but an eMTB called Ethic – not so much. Or in fact at all.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
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    I can’t remember why Ethic exactly, but they’re not Bird because another brand called Bird makes Commuter EBikes I think.

    I’ll wait until the finished bikes are ready, but it will be likely my first E-bike, it’s make for an easy transition between riding my 145LT and I love the way they ride, they’re also a great company to deal with.

    Premier Icon sharkattack
    Free Member

    The filmer was getting a load of stick in the comments for naming the trails, which are apparently subject to a “no advertising” agreement with the landowner.

    Fair enough. All these bloody Choobers have got a lot to answer for when it comes to blowing up local spots.

    Premier Icon jam-bo
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    They could at least have filmed the test video in Ethics

    i can’t see it now without picturing jamie oliver pronouncing it.

    Premier Icon honourablegeorge
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    Not fussed about the logo, but certainly could be tempted by an eBike from a brand known for good geometry, value pricing, great customer service and custom builds.

    Just about ticks all the boxes, my only worry is warranty support for a motor over here, if bought from a UK(non-EU) company.

    Premier Icon hooli
    Free Member

    Bird have always liked fairly prominent logos. Look at the AM9, there is barely a tube without a logo of some sort on.

    I quite like the ebike, looks very utilitarian, blunt and purposeful. I am looking forward to seeing how the finished article looks and prices up compared to the competition.

    Premier Icon Yak
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    Yeah, I have seen it in the flesh. It looks great, like a bulked up AM9. Purposeful. If you like the raw AM9s and you want e, then you will like this.

    Premier Icon rob13
    Free Member

    I like it. Like the big logo, the geometry sounds similar to the E Sommet but with the option of mullet or full 29 and a flip chip it moves the game on.

    The charging port is in a bad spot, so hopefully it’ll be moved but those saying it looks like an e bike, is there some other magic way you’ve considered to hide the large battery? Until tech catches up with smaller battery sizes then that design will be set for a while.

    Will be interested to see and hear more about it in the coming months. I stopped short of buying the Aether 9 and instead went full fat EP8 and think it was the right choice. I love e-mtbs and I’m not old or unfit enough to need one. They’re just brilliant fun up or down hill. Good to see a company like Bird getting on board with the technology.

    Premier Icon russyh
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    I think it looks great, well done to the bird team.  I mean I wouldn’t want a Shimano motor in mine.  But I’m sure others would.

    Premier Icon davosaurusrex
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    Look interesting, my Vitus E-Sommet isn’t far off 4 years old now and with current e-bike prices I’m not sure I’ll be able to afford (or justify) replacing it. No indication of pricing on these yet I guess?
    Few things though, charge port location is terrible, I always charge on the bike except in the depths of winter when I take the battery indoors
    Coil shock – love the idea but in my experience from normal bikes coils do rob pop and that’s the last thing a big old enduro e-bike needs. Hopefully there will be shock options, think Bird do this on other bikes
    And Shimano – the E8000 system on my bike is great but Shimano’s lack of support for aftermarket maintenance is shocking, I said I wouldn’t have another Shimano e-bike until they sort it out but knowing Shimano they won’t unless forced by legislation. I have about 6 months rolling warranty left on motor 2 so if it fails after that it could well render the whole frame unusable if I can’t source a replacement. I’d like to see a Bosch equipped version of the Ethic

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    In the beauty contest between full-fat ebikes, this is at or near the top in my opinion. Granted its not a high bar but at least it doesnt look like an aluminium boa constrictor has swallowed a toaster.

    Regarding pricing, I remember Ben saying a while back that they weren’t going to gouge people on the price like a lot of brands are doing, so it will be the equivilent of a same spec Bird + motor & battery.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    In the beauty contest between full-fat ebikes

    “Beauty contest” doing some heavy lifting there.

    What’s the real-world equivalent of a “least gopping” contest, anyone?

    Premier Icon zezaskar
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    Birds are hardly beauty queens as they are (IMO), their value resides somewhere else.
    What one gets is a top of the food chain performance bike, for a fair price and incredible reliability and durability. I’m OK with that trade-off.

    I’ve seen people referring to Bird as “really great for the price” and I think that’s an understatement. They´re really great regardless of the budget

    Premier Icon jameso
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    a full-fat ebike

    Was expecting 4″ tyres. What’s a full-fat e-bike vs an e-FS / e -MTB? Same?

    Premier Icon Mackem
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    Should have just went simple and called it Bird-E
    Then i could go to the bike shop and ask “How much is that Bird-E in the window, and are any going cheap?” etc

    Premier Icon davosaurusrex
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    Haha, internet win!

    Premier Icon bikesandboots
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    Don’t all systems pedals turn in walk mode?

    No idea, but still it’d be more shin/clothing-friendly if they didn’t.

    walk mode needs slowed down

    Sounds like something that should be configurable (within a range) in the settings menu or when you pair it with your phone.

    Garmin watch means no need for dedicated bike unit

    It’d be nice to have the option of putting one there, if that’s your existing or preferred device.

    I can’t remember why Ethic exactly, but they’re not Bird because another brand called Bird makes Commuter EBikes I think.

    That and more – explained in the article I linked.

    Was expecting 4″ tyres. What’s a full-fat e-bike vs an e-FS / e -MTB? Same?

    I used the term to distinguish it from things like the Levo SL and Orbea Rise. Not an e-fatbike.

    Premier Icon HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    And Shimano – the E8000 system on my bike is great but Shimano’s lack of support for aftermarket maintenance is shocking, I said I wouldn’t have another Shimano e-bike until they sort it out but knowing Shimano they won’t unless forced by legislation. I have about 6 months rolling warranty left on motor 2 so if it fails after that it could well render the whole frame unusable if I can’t source a replacement. I’d like to see a Bosch equipped version of the Ethic

    100% agree with this!

    Shimano motors are essentially disposable. Entire motor (and therefore the frame) is rendered a paper weight if a sensor fails. I wouldn’t buy another.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Was expecting 4″ tyres. What’s a full-fat e-bike vs an e-FS / e -MTB? Same?

    Refers to the full battery ie 625w as opposed to the lighter-but-still-heavy-as-**** orbea rise type bikes.

    Premier Icon jameso
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    Got it.

    Premier Icon danbird
    Free Member

    Hey, Ethic (and Bird) designer here.

    Thanks for the interest and comments, it’s nice to know there’s some interest in the Ethic.

    On the charging port I looked at all the options available on the frame layout and it was a choice between putting the charging port where it is, or not having one at all. I’ve been riding the bike for a few months now in some really filthy conditions and haven’t had any issues with the charging port. If I’m away somewhere then the battery comes out to charge overnight, and if the mud has dried onto the frame then it is easily chipped / brushed away to get to the charging port. I haven’t found any dirt getting into the charging connector itself. I’ve worn out one cassette already in 600km (this was a surprise to me as I’m religious with clearing the drivetrain) which should give you an idea of the amount of use the bike has had so far.

    The current 2 prototypes have had a lot of development already (thanks for lots of 3D printed parts) and the production design is finished and with the fabricator. Quite a few parts have changed, but the overall geometry and kinematics are identical to the prototypes. I’m very happy with how they ride!

    I’m happy to answer any questions, fire away.

    Dan

    Premier Icon sharkattack
    Free Member

    I’m happy to answer any questions, fire away.

    When can I take a demo bike to Hamsterley and ride the wheels off it?

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    Why ethic?  Misspelled ethnic or is it supposed to be ethical?

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I’ve worn out one cassette already in 600km (this was a surprise to me as I’m religious with clearing the drivetrain)

    Use putoline – thousands of miles of life from a drivetrain!

    Premier Icon danbird
    Free Member

    I chose the name, it is meant to be Ethic. To be honest I just liked the sound of it.

    Premier Icon danbird
    Free Member

    On an E-bike drivetrain? I use Smoove which is excellent in my view.

    Premier Icon danbird
    Free Member

    Sorry, I obviously need a lesson in how to use the forum to reply to individual posts!

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I chose the name, it is meant to be Ethic. To be honest I just liked the sound of it.

    Well at least its not smutty but sounds weird to me 🙂  But then I have a lisp

    On an E-bike drivetrain? I use Smoove which is excellent in my view.

    Yes – mainly used on road but by no means always.  6000+ miles so far and its still fine.  also used on the tandem which is mainly offroad- 3000+ miles from a chain at least.

    600 miles mean the lube was not working IMO

    Premier Icon danbird
    Free Member

    Smoove works great on my other bikes with reasonable drivetrain wear. Perhaps it doesn’t work as well in high load scenarios, perhaps it was the sunrace cassette (it’s all I could get hold of at the time). Either way it was a surprise to not be able replace the chain at 0.75 stretch and the cassette to not accept a new chain. Usually I get 3 chains out of a cassette and it skips on the 4th. On my previous bike I had a shimano XT 12 speed cassette on for 2 years, it still hasn’t worn out.

    I now have a shimano cassette on the Ethic, will see how that lasts.

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    Shimano motors are essentially disposable. Entire motor (and therefore the frame) is rendered a paper weight if a sensor fails. I wouldn’t buy another.

    Don’t you just end up buying a new motor in that scenario?

    I mean just because its not covered by warranty doesn’t mean you won’t be able to replace it when required.

    Premier Icon convert
    Full Member

    To be honest I just liked the sound of it.

    Bird owner/ lover of brand here but……not sure that’s a good enough reason.

    ‘Ethic’ as a name will rather imply to most people an ethical element to the product line. Yes, Evil Bikes were not actually evil, Iron Horses were not actually horses and Orange bike come in other colours. But ‘Ethic’…just feels like a claim-in-a-name that will need backing up or justifying at every turn and/or a little whiff of misselling (unless it’s set up not for profit or an amazing recycling scheme or something).

    Premier Icon Lummox
    Full Member

    @danbird

    been watching the developments with interest.

    currently riding an am9 in xl, will an ethic in the same size with 29 wheels feel/ride the same (weight excepted)

    also absolutely frothing for one of these

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