- This topic has 182 replies, 78 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR.
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Estate Cars
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stumpy01Full Member
it's fundamentally the wrong set up driving and steering the same wheels. It's done because it's easy to drive slowly and it's cheap to make. If you can't appreciate the advantages of RWD then you shouldn't be adding suggestions to a car thread.
First of all, you've kinda answered the point I was trying to make in my previous post…..most people don't want to drive everywhere at racing speeds revelling in the RWD-feeling. They don't give a stuff if it's FWD, RWD, AWD – so long as it goes. And clearly in this thread, the primary aim is finding a replacement estate car. Also, your comment on cost is correct, but also means that a FWD car may be more attractive to buyers as potentially less money has been spent on the transmission and more on the bits that people are bothered about.
I'd also argue that it's more to do with engineering packaging than making something easy to drive slowly…..Often with RWD cars, testers grumble about the transmission tunnel eating into the available space, so perhaps there's a valid arguement for an estate car specifically NOT being RWD so you potentially gain load area??
Your comment about 'not commenting on a thread about cars if you can't appreaciate the advantages of RWD' is clearly nonsense. Why do I have to appreciate a RWD car to make a suggestion on a suitable estate replacement to an Octavia VRS??
In fact, it is you who tends to comment on any car thread with needless points & statistics turning it into a 'my car's faster/more powerful/handles better than yours' type thread and bring a completely irrelevant slant to the thread.monkey_boyFree Memberi do love STW car threads….
im hoepfully about to get a new job where i will need a 'motorway muncher' and i cant wait to post 😆
GachetFree MemberSurf-Mat – Member
Anyone that thinks a RWD car is bad in the wet can't drive. They are FUN in the wet.I think we might have revealed the Stig's true identity as I'm sure you're capable of perfect oposite lock slides at every corner when it's wet. Anyone that wants to start sliding a car on the road is obviously a ****t. If you want to do that, go on a trackday or start racing rather than endangering the lives of other road users with your inaptitude.
Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...nickfFree MemberI've had FWD, RWD and 4wd vehicles.
Yes, there's a difference in steering feel,and obviously with RWD you don't get that annoying wheelspin if you accelerate reasonably hard out of a wet junction.
But for easily 95% of the time, perhaps more, it makes not a jot of difference to me.
konabunnyFree MemberSpud – Member
Thanks for the helpful suggestions. Personally FWD or RWD couldn't give a monkeys so long as it meets the requirements of large, reliable etc.
Unfortunately, you don't appreciate RWD so you're not allowed to post on the thread any more. Sorry but we have a certain standard of awesomeness to uphold. 😛D0NKFull Memberwhoever tagged it is going to have to change it to surfmat = the stig, 3 words only and the equals is dubious to be honest.
Surf-MatFree MemberYes of course, having more than a basic interest in cars makes me a Stig wannabe… 😆
I have made my suggestions, some FWD cars included. As usual though a few folk with very limited knowledge attempt to try and stamp their authority on this thread and fail dismally. As for the dangerous driving comment – far easier to correct an out of shape RWD car in a nasty situation if you have half a clue about driving. And with IAM and Police training, I suspect I may have more of a clue than you. Still, it makes some of you feel better talking utter BS about cars in an attempt to justify yourselves so do carry on…;-)
angeldustFree MemberSurf-Mat stop toying with us. You're clearly actually a spy/secret agent right?
GachetFree MemberNow you're backtracking as one moment you say that a RWD is fun in the wet which implies that you do like to try and slide it as what is fun about driving with your wheels in line at sensible speeds? But now the advantage of RWD is that it far easier to correct in a nasty situation. As me not having half a clue about driving, how would you know?
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberAs usual though a few folk with very limited knowledge attempt to try and stamp their authority on this thread and fail dismally.
care to be specific and give examples of how you know they have limited knowledge?
And with IAM and Police training, I suspect I may have more of a clue than you
Didnt seem to make you more aware of risk if you go out and buy a car based on how "fun" it is to drive.
WaderiderFree MemberI've got a Masters in Driving Lunar buggies on the moon, so listen to me. I am the oracle.
For a spacious estate FWD is better because the boot floor can be lower and there is no need for a transmission tunnel.
The rest is useless typical STW ranting from the bored middle aged and middle class want to be MTBer.
stumpy01Full Memberattempt to try and stamp their authority on this thread and fail dismally
Pot……..
Kettle…..?
failedengineerFull MemberFor driving enjoyment, IMHO, a 3 series tourer can't be beat – even my 'cooking' 318d (still got 140-odd bhp).Traction control tames the rear end brilliantly. However, it is nowhere near as big inside as a Mondeo. Mondeos drive brilliantly too, BTW, and are much cheaper to buy. My car's a company car – if it was my money I'd have a Mondeo, no question (although one of those huge e-class Mercs with a big diesel engine would be very tempting!)
There sure is some willy-waving about cars on here. If you want to go fast, get a bike.tonyg2003Full Memberfailedengineer "although one of those huge e-class Mercs with a big diesel engine would be very tempting!". It tempted me! Extremely smooth car to drive and about biggest end of the estate market.
molgripsFree MemberThe rest is useless typical STW ranting from the bored middle aged and middle class want to be MTBer.
Mate, you can be a young hardcore working class MTBer and still be a car bore, you know 🙂
To the OP – look at the stats on paper, look at reliability surveys and test drive some that look good to see which you like to drive the best. That's all you have to do to buy a car!
it's fundamentally the wrong set up driving and steering the same wheels
Fabulous bit of bullsh*t there. Manufs went to FWD (despite clear technical challenges) for several good reasons.
molgripsFree MemberOMG just saw this:
And for snow – get a spare 4×4
HAH! Mat, you must learn to think before you type! You are seriously suggesting getting two cars instead of one?! 😆
"It's snowing..!"
"Oh crap! I have to race home and switch cars before it starts to stick!"I seem to remember you on other threads saying your car was crap in snow…?
HeatherBashFree Member>And with IAM and Police training, I suspect I may have more of a clue than you<
Away and boil yer heid – the guy asked about big estate cars.
FrankensteinFree MemberFunniest thread in ages! 😆
So far we have Nigel Mansell, Miss Daisy and Jeremy Clarkson on STW!
miketuallyFree MemberMike – we had a 2005 Astra 1.9CDTI 150 from new and it was a decentish motor – cheap to buy, well specced, massive boot for the size of car. Made fairly well but it did go badly wrong at 42k miles (swirl flap failure) – luckily fixed under warranty. A lot of car for the money though. However a fair bit of torque and bhp meant it broke traction a lot (FRONT WHEEL DRIVE) and understeered when pushed. Learned to drive around those issues but it made wet weather driving a little interesting
It's a diesel estate, which will be driven by my wife with the kids in the back seat and two dogs in the boot. I'll make sure she knows about the understeer 🙄
molgripsFree MemberLol.
Not everyone wants or needs to thrash their car.. it's worth remembering Mat.. some of us just like to chill out when we drive.
PigfaceFree MemberMatt I dont understand why you enjoy winding people up so much, all that happens is that you just encourage the NSBR's of the world and then say that they are the stalker weirdos. Then you get really pissed off and chuck your toys. You are a rum one and no mistake.
anagallis_arvensisFull Member#
# SurfMat=TheStigquick take that down, we dont want singletrack towers up in court
dont reveal who the stig isnamastebuzzFree MemberAnd with IAM and Police training, I suspect I may have more of a clue than you
Well I've got my 25m swimming badge but it doesn't give me the right to be a sanctimonious tw*t 😯
CountZeroFull MemberAnd with IAM and Police training, I suspect I may have more of a clue than you.
And there have been some spectacular examples of poor driving by police drivers. Just 'cos you've got some swanky certificates doesn't make you a great driver; I'd like to stick you in a WRX car and send you through a special stage at race speed and see how you cope.
Last winter our director at work left his 5 series Beemer estate on his drive because he couldn't even reverse it off his drive while people with FWD cars were driving fifteen/twenty miles through the snow. Yeah, a RWD is so much better.suburbanFree MemberSkimmed through some of the thread, but what do you not like about the VRS?
Suggested already but the new Superb is excellent value for money, plus the top end one is a covert R36. I would bet you get the bike in the back without taking the wheels off. Slightly different but same brand is the Yeti, i really like it, like the current Skoda lineup for the most part quirky VAGs.
The merc estates are fairly vast as well, The 5 series isnt as big as you think, the Audi A6 (boots never varied between FWD and quattros) Subaru Legacy and Volvo V70. Although the octavia boots are much deeper than the other VAG bretherin.
Any reason to rule out the more upright storage as well so the MPVesques enter in here too. Skoda Yeti or the trendy vans, particularly the VW sportline i like a lot but its bananas money for a van.
You tend to see the same sort of cars at the trail centres, the VRS is less ostentatious but certainly a good all rounder imho. How about a Mondeo ST220 estate? Similar-ish space/performance/running costs.
Biggish question is do you put the bike on the roof or does it actually go in the back? Does it matter?
molgripsFree MemberLast winter our director at work left his 5 series Beemer estate on his drive because he couldn't even reverse it off his drive while people with FWD cars were driving fifteen/twenty miles through the snow
Only 2wd drive to get up our steep hill last year in the glazed ICE (never mind snow) without any wheelspin? Our Prius 🙂 complete with energy saving tyres 🙂
Surf-MatFree MemberJesus why didn't I get a alpine special Prius, Mondeo, whatever seeing as the clever folk here seem to think they are better than proper fast German estates that handle? The trump card? Easier for a poorly skilled rep to drive in snow and ice…. wow let's call Porsche and Ferrari and tell them they are wasting their time with their silly RWD cars because Paul the IT admin geek with a Focus claims his dream machine copes better in cold weather. Yes of course we live in The Arctic don't we? Silly car enthusiasts. Silly car journos. Silly racing drivers. What do they know eh? They should listen to the geniuses on STW… 😆
anagallis_arvensisFull Membermat you come across as slightly deranged, is that intended or do you need a little rest?
SpudFull MemberIt's not that I don't like the vRS. I want a change and would like something with more leg room for the kids. I'm tired of being booted in the back all the time. The Boot on the vRS is deep but not wide and the slope of the boot lid limits the load you can put above the cover.
tronFree MemberIf the OP drives a VRS, it's fair to assume that handling and performance is part of the equation.
Personally, I would look at the BMWs, particularly for an estate, as what's considered "good handling" by the mag reviewers seems to alter considerably with the type of car being reviewed.
I had a HDi 406 estate, which received universal praise for its handling. It didn't really handle. It gripped very, very well, but it didn't handle well. The tendency was towards understeer, and even with new suspension arms & correct geometry, the front wheels would toe out under braking, causing the car to follow any imperfections on the road. The seats weren't well suited to pressing on either.
On the other hand, it's difficult to not make an entertaining RWD chassis. Even something as shite as a Volvo 340 can be fun once you've got the hang of it.
molgripsFree MemberJesus why didn't I get a alpine special Prius, Mondeo, whatever seeing as the clever folk here seem to think they are better than proper fast German estates that handle?
Mat.. seriously.. listen for a second.
Different people have different requirements for their cars. So the designers make different cars to meet those requirements.
So a 3 series might be great for someone who likes a great handling car with a bit of space. However if you want say the most boot space, it's not ideal. Or if you live somewhere really snowy perhaps.
Yes, Porsche make great handling cars, but they are often undriveable in the snow. My mate used to have one. Depending on how much performance means to you, this may be a worthwhile compromise, it may not.
I don't really understand your problem here. Different cars for different desires – surely you understand that? Honestly…
Surf-MatFree MemberTron – brilliant post. Someone else speaking sense at last.
However if handling isn't vital, I do strongly recommend almost anything from Volvo. They are currently making excellent cars that are reliable, comfortable and very stylish. They tend to loss money fairly quickly too so can be bought for sensible money.
HairychestedFree MemberMy Peugeot 406 doesn't handle well. What it does better than most is gets on with the journey. Fill it up, load it to the limit, drive for hours in great comfort. Not fast, but 80mph with the boot full of "important" stuff and my family on board no problem. When we drive across Europe going to the family homes the stops are required every 3 hrs for coffee or every 700 miles to top up diesel. And I don't go via Berlin to stay on flat roads, quite the opposite, the chosen route is always the E40 via Jena (Zeiss labs are there) so hills aplenty.
For handling, go for a hot hatch, a Golf GTi or a Civic R-type for example, for normal driving French cars are great.
BTW I'd love to see the average driver coping with snow, hills and ice in a "cool" car with RWD. Check "Top Gear" and racing on ice. Unless the average driver here is better than them lot, which I somehow doubt.suburbanFree Memberclam down dear… this is a forum so try accepting you arent always right 😉
HairychestedFree Membersuburban, I am calm, I drive a Peugeot 406 estate with the old engine, it's better than valium 😉
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