Viewing 30 posts - 41 through 70 (of 70 total)
  • Enigma road bikes – experiences please?
  • Premier Icon fatmax
    Full Member

    Thanks everyone, the input is much appreciated. 👍
    In a nutshell, everyone that has one is evangelical about them, which is really good to know! 😁

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    All I can say is, good luck if you’ve gone ahead and bought one. I mean it; lots of Enigma owners haven’t had any problems. Unfortunately I wasn’t one of them.

    I loved mine. It finally died a week ago.

    cracked Enigma

    I say finally because that wasn’t the first crack.

    cracked Enigma

    or second.

    cracked Enigma

    I’ve just been informed that they consider the two repairs to be fulfilling the terms of the “lifetime” warranty (I bought this back before they changed that to 10 years and a loyalty scheme). They’ve asked for £600 to build a new frame. It would be foolish of me to give them any more money, so I’m out of luck. I hope you have a better ride.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Free Member

    That’s quite the catalogue of misfortune

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    I don’t normally name my bikes, but after the second crack I privately started calling this one Edsel.

    I have two other road bikes: a Langster and an old ti Litespeed. Both have seen a lot of miles. Neither has come to similar grief.

    Premier Icon Gotama
    Free Member

    Despite your other one being rubbish, £600 for them to build a new frame is a pretty good deal isn’t it? Even if you get it built around fairly standard geometry and flog it on as new.

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    Well, that was certainly Jim’s view of it. I take note of your clever plan, but I’m not much of a bike flogger, on top of which, it would be physically impossible for me to give them another penny. My hand would fall off first, a spontaneous amputation from the pure gall of it.

    Here are more pics. This is going to be my new favourite thing to share with the world.

    cracked Enigma

    cracked Enigma

    cracked Enigma

    cracked Enigma

    Premier Icon MrSmith
    Free Member

    How many years did you get out of that frame?
    If it’s more than 7-8 years I wouldn’t grizzle that much especially as it’s Ti.

    I’m not a fan of Ti and prefer steel, I would have taken the offer and had the best steel frame they make (Columbus spirit or maybe stainless)

    I have a pegoretti that cracked a couple of years ago, had it from 2007 and Dario repaired it for free, I did spend 700 euro on a new fancy paint job and a new falz fork to match and the shipping. Had it 14 years now and the cost per smile/mile is of little consequence.
    It’s been worth every penny.

    That new steel frame could do you 10 years and so much easier to repair if needed.

    Premier Icon TomB
    Full Member

    Are you searching out Enigma threads to share your woe? The last post before yours was 6 months ago…

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    I beg to differ, MrSmith: It wasn’t an offer, it was an insult (on top of the insult of multiple frame failures). Lifetime warranty = right to “grizzle”, especially after the first crack came at the measly 5 year mark. I may indeed end up with steel if I decide on another custom job. If so, at least I know where I’d not be getting it.

    TomB, this came up on a search and was still open. Perhaps I should’ve started a new one, but I also think it can be useful to build on old threads.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Full Member

    That’s a heck of series of failures; I’ve never seen a failure quite as bad as that. Did you not notice something earlier (creaking, etc) as that doesn’t look like an instant fail.

    As above, if that were my frame and it had done me more than 5 years, I’d happily pay the £600. Hell, think of it as a cheap upgrade.

    I’ve never really bought into the lifetime warranty when purchasing any frame, let alone a Ti one. Mechanical things break, they wear out. Some last longer than others, but rarely does anything last forever. Pay the £600.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Full Member

    My £40k Z4MC developed rust inside the rear boot skin within the 12y corrosion warranty, it was repaired. It happened again, it was repaired. It happened again and they wriggled out of it and I had it repaired at my own cost. At no point did BMW offer me a new car @ ~25% of the actual cost of a new one. Had they done so, I would’ve probably said yes and considered it good customer service.

    Just sayin…

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    You’re more forgiving than I. If Enigma sees this, I guess they’ll be heartened by such responses. As I said above, it would be foolish (daffy, even) of me to give them even more money, especially given the track record on the last frame.

    The first crack came with creaks, whereupon I immediately took it to them. The next two came without warning, and I was nearly thrown from the bike.

    Premier Icon Aidy
    Free Member

    I think if it failed that many times, I’d be a bit hesitant to give them more money too.

    (otoh, I don’t think I’d be entirely insulted by the offer of a replacement for £600 – but I might look to see if I could arrange to sell it on)

    Premier Icon scruff
    Free Member

    How much did it cost originally ?
    Ive had a Ti frame crack pretty quickly, my friend had another make and that also cracked.

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    I beg to differ, MrSmith: It wasn’t an offer, it was an insult (on top of the insult of multiple frame failures). Lifetime warranty = right to “grizzle”, especially after the first crack came at the measly 5 year mark.

    To be honest you did better than you would have done with the Cannondale lifetime warranty

    Don’t get me started on Kona, absolutely awful warranty, refused to even inspect the frame. The coke can thickness down tube creased at the butting simply not a fit design for MTB. Kona don’t honour warranty claims in my experience.

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    There is definitely a range of lifetime warranties. Therefore you put your faith in someone and hope for the best.

    Scruff, the frame was just north of £1500.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Full Member

    The more I look at this, the more I’d say that the first failure and repair was the cause of the subsequent failures.

    I’d wager that the first repair caused some level of shrinkage and embrittlement around the DS of the BB putting increased strain on the DS chainstay. This would’ve meant that the response in the two chainstays to conventional loads would’ve been asymmetric with one flexing more than the other. This could’ve caused the resulting dropout failure. The repair to the dropout may have further increased the strain in that DS chainstay and/or its attachment to the BB shell. The final failure looks to be a classic brittle failure mode fracture of titanium in and around the welds/repairs to the BB.

    How much heat treatment did the frame get after each repair? Without going into too much detail on grain phases – too much heat and not enough heat treatment will result in poor properties in the fabricated titanium parts and in this case, possibly differential properties to other areas of the frame.

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    From your blog…

    With 20k miles on the odometer

    20,000 miles on a singlespeed is good going, kudos! (actually amazingly my singlespeed is one of my most ridden bikes also but only has about 3000 miles on it…).

    I honestly reckon you’re just one of those outliers than manufacturers don’t include in their warranty calculations. If they’d sold me the same frame I’d still have approx 18 years to rack up a similar sort of mileage on it! (in my defence, my annual mileage is split fairly evenly over numerous bikes).

    I think you’ve also fallen foul of the ‘bike for life’ myth that I’ve also heard about ti, in fact, if anything the thread above has convinced me maybe I should go steel for my next build…

    Not sure if Enigma could have handled it much better, I guess like most brands they’re guilty of not making clear what a ‘lifetime’ warranty really means.

    Premier Icon Bruce
    Free Member

    We have had quite a few bikes over the years, the Ti ones that have cracked were a Van Nicolas MTB that my partner owned the frame was promptly replaced, a Litespeed road bike and was repaired in the States by Litespeed, a Bontrager mountain bike which cracked and was replace by Trek with a different bike. I have a year 2000 Litspeed MTB which is still in one bit and an Independent Fabrications mtb which has not cracked. In that time I have broken my steel Kona commuter bike frame.
    I would speculate that all frames are liable to crack and it depends on the quality of the materials used and the design of the frame not on the frame material.

    Premier Icon boblo
    Free Member

    Aye ‘lifetime’ sounds great in Marketing speak but is usually just bullshine. Anyone remember Karrimor’s KS100e ‘lifetime guarantee’? Try phoning Mike Ashley to get your repair and see how far you get…

    Premier Icon fatmax
    Full Member

    I was the OP.
    Despite the post from @anothersam I’m still keen on an Enigma. There’s lots of great feedback and happy owners in the thread. Sam has put huge miles into the bike (more than I would do!) and Enigma have at least tried to resolve or assist in some way. Any manufacturer is going to have some issues to deal with. On balance they get great reviews and seem to have lots of evangelical fans. And I accept that NO bike is a bike for life.
    Once I’ve paid last year’s tax bill there should be enough pennies left in the piggybank!

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    Thanks for all the replies, and for stopping back, OP. Hopefully you and everyone else with an Enigma will continue to be happy with your purchase. When you’ve spent a bundle on a bike you want to believe in the brand; there are lots of evangelicals about. I used to be one myself.

    I’ve put my case as best I can (again, a major failure after 5 years upon which I should’ve been given a new frame, followed by the two other failures). Of course, opinions are going to differ. I know if I’d come across a thread like this when I was doing my research, I would’ve looked elsewhere. Clearly, YMMV.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Full Member

    Is there any reason why Ti frames should be more prone to cracking than any other metal frame (or indeed are they)?

    Premier Icon boblo
    Free Member

    Is there any reason why Ti frames should be more prone to cracking than any other metal frame (or indeed are they)?

    AIUI, Ti is very fussy when being welded. Prep, during and post. Plus tube utilisation/frame design is critical to long life.

    I’ve broken dropouts (steel) during use and bent frames during ‘exciting episodes’ (AKA, ‘crashing’) but haven’t fatigued a frame to death be it Ti, steel, aloominum or plastic.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    Just to add my 2p, I’ve had an Enigma Efo MTB for 9 years now, never broken.

    But, in 2016 my 4.5yo carbon Bianchi broke at the chain stay whilst climbing at normal effort up a hill. To cut a long story short, Bianchi asked for my frame back for inspection, received it, denied all knowledge of receiving it, lost it then stopped talking to me all within the guarantee period. Therefore IMO there’s far far worse that what Enigma are offering you.

    It got resolved eventually by Wiggle – through whom I bought the Bianchi – proving me with one of their stock bikes which I still have an use today FOC as a replacement all credit to them.

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    Kryton, you’ve got to admit that’s an extremely low bar set by Bianchi. I think it’s a good idea to try to hold people to their word, else we get used to all kinds of nonsense.

    Premier Icon solarider
    Full Member

    All frames can break. All materials have pros and cons. Let’s start there.

    I am a lifelong ti bike fan, but they aren’t unbreakable (although I have personally not had one fail). Unfortunately over time ti bike frame folklore and marketing haven’t helped. Things like ‘bike for life’ are a bit flawed, and the price of ti vs other materials also raises the expectation. So, when a ti frame breaks, it is usually newsworthy. In reality fashion, standards and geometry changes make a ‘bike for life’ a pretty redundant statement. What is true is that a ti frame is somewhat more timeless, particularly if left bare. No paint to date it. No model years as such. My Seven Evergreen ‘gravel’ bike is 8 years old now, and still looks new. My Sola hardtail is younger, but already the geometry looks dated. Both frames will potentially last longer than the standards that they are equipped with.

    If it is well made, backed up by a decent warranty (and clearly ‘lifetime’ is open to some interpretation) and well supported, then I could heartily recommend ti, and despite some comments earlier in this thread, despite rider weight. A good ti manufacturer can make a bike relevant to any rider weight.

    Expensive ti manufacturers (the likes of 22, Seven etc) custom make bikes for the rider, and select the tube sets respectively. Also, if something goes wrong, they are the fabricator too and can fix things. Some brands don’t fabricate, and dealing with warranty can be tricky. There is a component of ‘you get what you pay for’, which is not to say that cheap ti is problematic, but you only really know whether it is well supported when you really need to fall back on that support. It kind of works like this:

    Low end – you pay your money, you take your risk. A warranty claim usually means a new frame.

    High end – well supported, capable or repair, but you pay for the privilege

    Mid end – maybe that’s what we are talking with Enigma (hope I am not being too dismissive here). small enough to be bespoke, small enough to be custom, but perhaps not large enough to offer limitless warranty.

    The middle ground of any debate is often a grey and difficult area. With high end, you expect the best in terms of product and support. With low end you kind of accept a certain degree of risk. In the middle expectation is high, but not always delivered.

    Having said all of that, despite one exception above, I have only ever heard great things about Enigma and their product and service. As I opened with, all frames can break. Between my riding buddies, we have broken pretty much every brand out there, regardless of material, source or brand. None of it would put me off, unless there was a systematic and regular failure rate. One offs are one offs. The bike above has failed in so many ways that I suspect it simply wasn’t made properly. Too many welds have failed and maybe they weren’t properly purged and cleaned prior to welding. Just speculation and internet armchair critics are the worst kind since I haven’t seen the bike, but it is just so bad that I could almost dismiss it as being so far from normal that it wouldn’t harm my image of ti or Enigma.

    Premier Icon anothersam
    Free Member

    Solarider, I think your putting Enigma in the mid-end slot sounds right (though some of their prices are enough to make normal people faint). I couldn’t afford truly high end. I would also agree with the poster above that I’m somewhat of an outlier; I’m assuming there aren’t that many of us who get a custom built singlespeed (in my case to add to his other singlespeeds. I don’t do gears.)

    I think I got a lemon which was turned into a bigger lemon by their less than expert repair. That’s what warranties are supposed to be for, and it’s not like I washed up at their door after 20 years.

    My image of Enigma actually wouldn’t have been irreparably harmed either, if they had been willing to make this right. Asking for more money to cover their mistakes, isn’t.

    Premier Icon solarider
    Full Member

    Definitely sounds like a lemon, and would have expected better from Enigma to sort it since there is clearly something wrong to have failed in so many places. It is so comedically wrong that they should have just held their hands up.

    Premier Icon fatmax
    Full Member

    Just as a wee update, I eventually ordered an Enigma Etape from Pedal Power in West Calder (Scotland). Currently being built up and I’m pencilled in for a bike fit on it and to pick it up on January 4th. Zipp 303 wheels, Enigma finishing kit, Pirelli tubeless tyres, and largely an Ultegra groupset – cannae wait to get it and get the miles in.
    Thanks so much for the input, all very much appreciated. Fraser 👍

Viewing 30 posts - 41 through 70 (of 70 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.