This is a poor way to spin it. What it really means is that Scotland needs £7 billion on the cash borrowed by the UK as England doesn't have a spare £7 billion to give to Scotland. Given that the UK as a whole was expecting to borrow way more than £100 billion….. blah blah blah

No, what it really means is you can't pay your way and the rest of the UK is either bailing you out or borrowing to bail you out.

Anyway who cares, just get your independence and leave us alone.

tbh, i'm not interested who spins what, you're bad partners. good riddance.

Yep – don't let the facts get in the way of your bigotry.

Is a scotsman who wants devoloution a patriot and an englishman who wants devoloution a bigot then ?

I only see bigotry on one side of that logic

I'm half-English and half-Scottish so don't have a strong view on the matter. Just pointing out some facts is all.

I don't personally see anything wrong with patriotism. On devolution in England I though those regions that had voted on it were not in favour, although more regional influence does seem like a reasonable idea to me.

Just pointing out some facts is all.

When any of those become apparent be sure to let the class know

I'm bored now. bye.

When any of those become apparent be sure to let the class know

Sorry, I don't teach remedial.

As steve says If you add all the oil revenue to the tax revenue raised in scotland and subtract the amount of tax money spent in Scotland you find that there is a net contribution to the UK from Scotland

I don't think that's a very sensible way of looking at it. If Scotland had been independent when oil was discovered, most likley British companies would have moved in and say paid mineral extraction rights… so SOME revenue would have stayed in Scotland and some not – hard to say.

I don't think that's a very sensible way of looking at it. If Scotland had been independent when oil was discovered, most likley British companies would have moved in and say paid mineral extraction rights… so SOME revenue would have stayed in Scotland and some not – hard to say.

It's further complicated because there are also areas of government that don't currently have to be funded from the Scottish budget but would be if it was independent. And even that is further complicated because the jobs that go with such governmetn areas aren't necessarily geographically spread so with the UK government does take the cost the benefits also tend to be more London centric.

I suspect that most of the English regions are in the same situation as Scotland is, because of the focus on the capital i.e. they probably need direct cash subsidies from the South East of England, but the reasons for that are complicated.

I don't hide the fact that I'd welcome an independent Scotland.
This isn't out of patriotism, or anti Englishness, I just want to live in a fair, social-democratic country that isn't on some post imperial fantasy, trying to make itself more important than it is.
If that country is Britain, fair enough, but if that reality is not acceptable to England, an Independent Scotland will do nicely, with or without the oil.
Being separated from the likes of Dr Gonzo is just an added bonus.

Double Post!

We can quote till the cows come home!

"On the basis of the assumptions and methodologies described in this report, in 2007-08, total public sector non-North Sea current revenue in Scotland was £45.2 billion. This is equivalent to 8.4 per cent of UK total non-North Sea current revenue which is in line with Scotland's share of the UK population.Source

Per Capita Share of North Sea Revenue: Scotland 2007-08 is 660m of 7,831m
Geographical Share of North Sea Revenue: Scotland 2007-08 is 7,320m of 7,831m
Source

"total public sector expenditure for Scotland was £53.3 billion. This was equivalent to 9.6 per cent of total UK public sector expenditure"
Source

"There are number of reasons why public expenditure for Scotland often lies above the UK average. In some cases, higher expenditure per capita reflects the greater relative importance of particular activities for Scotland. Agriculture, fisheries and forestry is one such example. Scotland also has a lower population density than the UK which increases the cost of providing the same level of public service activity, particularly in areas such as education, health and transport.

The scope and remit of the public sector also differs in Scotland compared to the UK. For example, water and sewage services are a public sector responsibility in Scotland, and are therefore included in Scottish public expenditure, whilst in England they are operated by the private sector. The inclusion of Scottish Water in the public sector is one reason why net investment in Scotland is higher than for the UK as a whole.

In other areas, the higher observed Scottish expenditure reflects greater demand for Scottish-based providers. For example, the strength of Scottish universities has created a net inflow of students from other parts of the UK. Additionally, Scottish university courses are typically longer – the honours degree course takes four years, compared with a typical three year course in England and Wales. Therefore, expenditure on education and training for Scotland will be relatively higher than the rest of the UK. However, this benefits the UK as a whole. As discussed in GERS 2006-07, Scottish universities have also been able to attract above average levels of research funding which has contributed to the high level of public expenditure for science and technology in Scotland."
Source

In 2007-08, the estimated current budget balance for the public sector in Scotland was a deficit of £7.1 billion (6.3 per cent of GDP) excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of £6.4 billion (5.5 per cent of GDP) including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a surplus of £219 million (0.2 per cent of GDP) including an estimated geographical share of North Sea revenue.
Source

At the end of the day most of the UK is subsidised by London and Scotland is less of a burden than Wales, Northern England or Northern Ireland per capita.

Look, if all you English people think you are subsidising us Scots, then why aren't you screaming at your politicians to support Scottish devolution?

Oh, the oil?

We need to gain control over the runaway train of public spending ……………

What we need is a commercially focused wealth generating administration.

Public spending became a "runaway train" when the bankers screwed up …………..screwed up Big Time.

I suggest you try to understand the problem…………before offering solutions 💡

Look, if all you English people think you are subsidising us Scots, then why aren't you screaming at your politicians to support Scottish devolution?

Oh, the oil?

To be honest I don't believe it is as big a deal at the moment. However, it will be interesting how things will play out in the future as the oil prices goes sky high. There is still plenty of oil in the North sea. It just needs incentive to get it out.

There are many ways of looking at the figures but it is clear that the myth of the English subsidising the scots is simply that – a myth

No TJ. It's all true. Free health care, free parking, free loans. All subsidised by the English.

I love I how they belive we hAve jobs and everything.

TJ is being way oversimplistic.

It's further complicated because there are also areas of government that don't currently have to be funded from the Scottish budget but would be if it was independent.

Quite.. For example Scotland doesn't currently run an army but it is defended by one that is funded centrally ie with a lot more money from London/SE than from Scotland.. of course a lot of people in said army are FROM Scotland, and will take some of that money home and spend it in Scotland.. is that counted in the public spending analyses?

Personally I think it's vastly too complicated to call. I mean.. say a British company spends money on TV advertising which is broadcast on Channel 4 (partly govt funded) in Scotland, which encourages sales of of a product in Scotland.. now the product's HQ is in England.. but the distribution centre is in Scotland along with the company's call centre.. run from a business park accessed by a motorway built by the UK govt.. I mean how the hell do you expect to work that all out?

It's not clear AT ALL.

Of course Druidh – I forgot you are right. should we be tugging the forelock to our feudal masters?

I'm sure an independent Scotland would be more than capable of running itself.

Of course without any "subsidies" from the English we wouldn't be able to afford to fight expensive wars in remote countries or be able to maintain aircraft carriers because we would be wasting it on elderly care, free parking at hospitals, and free tertiary education.

We should be able to defend ourselves with our share of the nuclear deterrent 🙂

England would benefit from independence too, it might lose a few delusions of faded grandeur.

I have a question semi relevant to be honest. As a rich country where exactly is it that all the money goes, for example when people work and pay tax's what happens to that money and also all the money earned from people working and the efforts of the average person.

Seems to me it flows into the pockets of the rich and powerful who then use it to lord it over the rest of us. Maybe we should focus on getting it back! into our lives.

Not a bad thing having the future of our people in the hands of complete and utter bankers.

After all they did enable us to start the millennium with a Global sh1temare.

I have a question semi relevant to be honest. As a rich country where exactly is it that all the money goes, for example when people work and pay tax's what happens to that money and also all the money earned from people working and the efforts of the average person.

The government (any government, although the current one is worse than most) pisses it away.

No TJ. It's all true. Free health care, free parking, free loans. All subsidised by the English.

further more I am getting free fruit and vegetables from Aberdeen uni* for 4 months.

Cheers 😉
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* who get their money from central government.

I don't care how much oil you've got, you'll never have one of these.

😉

Thats 'cos we dont cheat 🙂

no, it's cos you're crap 😆

I don't care how much oil you've got, you'll never have one of these

I've decided that, as it happened before I was born, it doesn't count (same applies to the even more disastorous European Cup result in '67).

I'm slightly more concerned that, with a decent England manager in place, there is now some danger of it happening again.

Got anything more recent? That pic's a bit old and fuzzy to make it out properly. Is it an ornament or something?

no it's a world cup, not suprised you've forgotten what they are though.

( you guys keep setting them up, and i'll get the russian linesman to knock 'em down )

no it's a world cup, not suprised you've forgotten what they are though.

How old are you? Just wondering if all you've got to remind you of the "glory days" are faded pictures taken by others, or if you (or even your parents!) were actually alive at the time… 😉

The Welsh,Irish,French,Poles, Spanish and Germans must have slept well in their beds last night, aware that, for once it's not them that are the target of the Little-Englanders Daily Mail readers xenophobia rant!
Yup, everybody else is simultatiously worse at everything and getting a better deal you!

66 was a long time ago but we like to spread our achievements through the years,it helps to prolong your agony. Here's a vino joven for you to enjoy. 😀

Here's a vino joven for you to enjoy

Well I know for a fact that wasn't yesterday… 😉

form is temporary, class is permanent

form is temporary, class is permanent

Which will be why the terrible events of '66 have, thankfully, not re-occurred.

nice spin but it takes more than form to reach those heights.

nice spin but it takes more than form to reach those heights.

Didn't Greece winning the Euro's prove that not to be the case? They were a decent side but it was form (or more precisely a lack of it) by other nations that allowed them to "reach those heights".

Think you're being very hard on an excellent side there, just look at their results throughout the tournament and they were only a magical free kick away from eliminating England from the World Cup two years previously. Not pretty to watch but easily the best side in the competition.

the missus tells me that if scotland didnt have to look after glasgows non working population then we would be able to go self sufficient – as it is glasgow is too much of a drain to allow us to go self sufficient,

im neither pro nor against independance – frankly i think either way its gonna end up in tears !

the missus tells me that if scotland didnt have to look after glasgows non working population then we would be able to go self sufficient – as it is glasgow is too much of a drain to allow us to go self sufficient,

I hadn't realised you were married to Annabel Goldie… 😉