Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 102 total)
  • Employment law – public sector, dragged in on days off
  • Premier Icon scaredypants
    Full Member

    All she needs to do is pop in to work and look up the answer.  I suppose she’ll need a disguise though in case tosspot’s in – maybe go as a nurse or doctor ?

    Premier Icon cornholio98
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t want to spend the weekend in a library which routinely denied its staff time to recover from a busy and mentally-exhausting role.

    I just got got back from the library and it was pandemonium. Well as much as it possibly could be. There was a queue for assistance!

    Premier Icon nbt
    Free Member

    Premier Icon mattyfez
    Free Member

    Sounds like the care industry. So not nhs as such just private contractors taking the piss out of staff  And then wondering why they can’t recruit new staff.

    Premier Icon bobgarrod
    Free Member

    Unless they had spoken to me on the phone , i’d ignore it. If they make a fuss just say i never received it/my internet was down/went into spam/was out whatever. sounds like the overbearing and self important cockwombles that infest hmrc.

    Premier Icon dannyh
    Full Member

    Surely there isn’t a clause saying you have to be available and read emails 24/7, so a quick ‘do not send read receipt’ and ignore?

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    just ignore it unless she is officially on call. Very few instances in public sector would you have an obligation to cover and certainly not in healthcare.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Free Member

    Bloody weird world this public sector

    Having worked in both, that’s how I feel about the private sector.

    Premier Icon ski
    Free Member

    Why would you open/respond to work emails while off?

    Work – clock off – two fingers to work, get hammered, blow pay, forget about boring work until you have to clock back on!

    Premier Icon Drac
    Full Member

    I’ve read that email again well the dramatic version. It seems all they are asking is who can help out with some emergency cover, could be due to absence or anything. All they want to know is if you’re wife is available. No expectations to go in, no expectations to read the email a bit blunt asking for a reply but that’s it. Seems reasonable to ask who is available. We use SMS if caught low on cover or in some cases a phonecall.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Why would you open/respond to work emails while off?

    Because for 10 mins effort I can keep things running smoothly, it means I have a  better first day back and less shit to deal with. I also care about what I am doing as it reflects on my job as a whole and my relationship with my customers without who I would have no job.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Full Member

    Mike that’s not the attitude to have you’re supposed to stick your fingers up and stamp your feet.

    Premier Icon Greybeard
    Full Member

    I’d tend to ignore any email that referenced 12pm

    12pm is just about acceptable to me if it’s intended to mean midnight

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    there is no such thing as 12 pm.  Its either 12 midnight or 12 midday

    Premier Icon Greybeard
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    TJ, I’m in agreement with what the NPL says (including the last sentence, so hope you agree):

    Another convention sometimes used is that, since 12 noon is by definition neither ante meridiem (before noon) nor post meridiem (after noon), then 12 a.m. refers to midnight at the start of the specified day (00:00) and 12 p.m. to midnight at the end of that day (24:00). Given this ambiguity, the terms 12 a.m. and 12 p.m. should be avoided.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Free Member

    We have this sort of stuff all the time. There’s a standby rota, but if bad weather is expected, then they can ask for general availability. That basically means, if the shit hits the fan, is it worth calling you. I still have the option to say no, be drunk, go out. Or I can go in, my choice. If they want me waiting on a peg, on the off chance, it needs a standby retainer.

    This is usually organised by sms.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    It could probably have been worded better but is Mrs M as wound up by it as you imply or is it really you who’s p’d off?  In many places people provide short notice cover because they care about the job they do and the people they do it for or because they like the people they work with and have some empathy for the chaos that others would have to cope with if they weren’t there.  Of course if your job is just a means to earn money you may struggle to understand this.  In my experience partners are often more put out about staff working extra than the staff themselves are.

    if Mrs M does indeed work in a Library you may find it hard to justify the priority for this versus say a doctor or firefighter getting the same request.  But consider:

    – old Mrs Smith who comes to the library once a week for some of her only social interaction, she arrives and finds the place closed.

    – young davie who lives in a hostel having been made homeless last year when he lost his job.  He needs to access a computer to check which hours he has been provisionally allocated his new zero hrs contract.

    – Chantelle who’s single mum leaves her at the library when she goes to do her second job, so that Chantelle can do her homework (which her mum can’t really help with anyway) finds it locked and having no place to go is wandering the streets.

    – if it happens lots, it becomes easier to justify cutting the hours of the library because either staffing it is too hard, or when it was shut there wasn’t an outcry

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

     In many places people provide short notice cover because they care about the job they do and the people they do it for or because they like the people they work with and have some empathy for the chaos that others would have to cope with if they weren’t there.  Of course if your job is just a means to earn money you may struggle to understand this.

    +1 Both my wife (NHS) and I (private sector) regularly work extra hours to cover for variations in workload, staff absence, weather impacts etc. That’s usually requested via a phone call or through Messenger.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Full Member

    Yup well put Poly.

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Full Member

    I sometimes work extra hours but only if I can dress up as a nurse, doctor or librarian – requests made via tinder

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    A request is fine, an instruction is not.

    I recently had a similar sort of situation.  I rosterd to be off friday – monday inclusive.  Either late thursday or on frideay my roster was changed so I was working monday.  I got an unexpected phone call on monday that I should be at work.  I simply replied that I wasn’t and wasn’t coming in as I was on the shores of a loch in the highlands.  Managers mistake, no come back on me.

    Premier Icon TheBrick
    Free Member

    The request is terribly worded but the stupid thing is the contact via email for something urgent. Yes some people do check emails out of work but there is no guarantee of what time they will if they will etc. Could be having a long lie in and bath etc  if it’s important to get a answer from someone phone or maybe WhatsApp / messenger type thing if people are known to use it.

    The manager is amateurish.

    Premier Icon siwhite
    Full Member

    @NBT – I consider my life has been enriched this afternoon, thanks to the disvocery of Tom Gauld cartoons. Thanks!

    @OP – if that was my Public Sector employers I’d a) not have read the email b) not consider working a shift after a night and c) not dream of compromising a rest day, unless of course it was a proper flap. Your wife may have a greater sense of duty and responsibility than I do…

    Premier Icon dannyh
    Full Member

    Because for 10 mins effort I can keep things running smoothly, it means I have a  better first day back and less shit to deal with.

    That sound like a shit handover and shit cover to me. Unless you are a sole trader you should be able to take time off knowing that someone else can cover properly. If not, the model doesn’t sound sustainable. What if, heaven forbid, two of you were to be off at the same time?

    Non work time is non work time, end of.

    Premier Icon kilo
    Full Member

    In many places people provide short notice cover because they care about the job they do and the people they do it for or because they like the people they work with and have some empathy for the chaos that others would have to cope with if they weren’t there. Of course management sometimes dress up failing to roster staff, recruit and retain staff, wanting to pay overtime, getting specialist staff to cover toss such as office moves as an emergency and come up with bs emails asking you to explain why you don’t want to turn out on a rest day

    Premier Icon spekkie
    Free Member

    Yes it’s badly worded, but shows the pressure everyone is under in the system. It is not due to bad planning, it’s a fact that there are not enough doctors.

    Surely “not enough Doctors” still falls under bad planning on some level?

    Premier Icon Mowgli
    Free Member

    I’m not going to go into specifics on here. A bit of background that might go some way to explain the annoyance is that this email (or variation of) has been sent out 3 times in the last month, similarly threatening and overly dramatic. Typically a junior member of staff is nominated after no-one volunteers, as they are more likely to comply and are not quite so burned out. It’s common for them to be sent home at 11am on a Friday, having started that morning, and told to come back at 8pm for the night shift instead. As a one off I could understand it, but it’s a regular occurrence due to massive under funding and generally incompetent managers which has pushed everyone beyond what’s a reasonable amount of flexibility and overtime.

    The suggestions of lack of commitment to career, colleagues and work output are way wide of the mark so that really doesn’t come into it. I don’t know anyone who’s sacrificed so much of their life for their job, for so little thanks or reward.

    Premier Icon Lummox
    Full Member

    Would mrs mowgli be interested in joining the water fairies as despite there still being some toss pottery in the fire service they don’t guilt trip you if you have the audacity to take leave.

    I feel for her, nothing worse than being manipulated by the job you love.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    some of that is breach of contract.  some illegal as it breaches the WTD

    time to raise a group greivance?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    That sound like a shit handover and shit cover to me. Unless you are a sole trader you should be able to take time off knowing that someone else can cover properly. If not, the model doesn’t sound sustainable.

    Small consultancy, I manage and own projects and for 10 mins effort I can sleep easy. It’s quite normal in a small place. Something as simple as confirming meeting availability or responding to a quick question or directing somebody to the right person.

    It’s not bothering me as it just keeps things working. If I was going to be 100% unavailable I might do a full handover and try and plan projects accordingly but there isn’t the need.

    I’m happy enough to know I have a job that gives me flexibility at times, it means work time is sometimes non work time so its a deal I’m happy to make.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Full Member

    It’s common for them to be sent home at 11am on a Friday, having started that morning, and told to come back at 8pm for the night shift instead.

    She can tell them to get ****.

    The suggestions of lack of commitment to career, colleagues and work output are way wide of the mark so that really doesn’t come into it.

    I think you’ve misunderstood what was said.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    Mike – it may be normal but you are allowing the management to use you.  Time off is time off.  Its not a rest day if you are answering emails so possible breach of WTD.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Full Member

    Mike – it may be normal but you are allowing the management to use you.  Time off is time off.  Its not a rest day if you are answering emails so possible breach of WTD.

    He’s not he’s choosing do it, you can opt to work overtime, toil all under WTD.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    Some parts of the WTD you cannot opt out of.  Compulsory rest time being one.  11 hours rest between shifts being another. ( over simplified)  so if he answres an email morning and evening of bo9th days over the weekend he is in breach of the WTD by not having a day off.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Full Member

    so if he answres an email morning and evening of bo9th days over the weekend he is in breach of the WTD by not having a day off.

    No he’s not TJ. Yes 11 hours off between shifts but checking an email for 10 mins on a Saturday and Sunday really isn’t breaking it.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I would say it was.  Its not a rest day if you are answering emails.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Full Member

    The law says otherwise. He’s volunteering to do it to keep on top things, that isn’t breaking the WTD.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    Cougar nails it- I either didn’t read it, or I’m unavailable for personal reasons. I’d be tempted to put something passive-aggressive about the length of notice, but it’d be better not to really, because that might just lead to more demands but with a little more notice which’d be slightly less easy to nope.

    Premier Icon gobuchul
    Free Member

    Some parts of the WTD you cannot opt out of. Compulsory rest time being one. 11 hours rest between shifts being another. ( over simplified) so if he answres an email morning and evening of bo9th days over the weekend he is in breach of the WTD by not having a day off.

    Wish it applied to me.

    I’m currently on Day 49 without a day off.

    At least 12 hours day and usually longer.

    It will probably run to around 58 days before I finish.

    I am a full time employee, employed by a UK entity, UK national and the WTD does not apply.

    I would say it was. Its not a rest day if you are answering emails.

    so if he answres an email morning and evening of bo9th days over the weekend he is in breach of the WTD by not having a day off.

    TBH, shit like that is playing in the hands of the DM readers.

    If you want to undermine workers rights and discourage flexible employment and management, that is a good way to go about it.

    Premier Icon jet26
    Free Member

    No mention of what job but if a junior doctor it used to be within the contract that cover must be provided for absence less than 48 hours notice. More than 48 hours not so.

    Which meant employer could effectively say either someone volunteers or we volunteer someone. That said if been on nights have to have 24 hours off minimum after finishing so not eligible.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 102 total)

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