Hi Guys

My son has been unhappy at work, his supervisor has asked him if he is looking for another job.

He confirmed informally that he was having a look at opportunities.

Now a member of management has indicated that its not in the business interest for him to continue in his position and has told him to resign providing a months notice.

He has been in the position over 6 months less than a year.

I think this is totally wrong and its normal career progression to look at other roles.

I have told him to discuss the issue with ACAS and have drafted a response that basically says he is happy to continue his employment and will advise his supervisor if the position changes.

I think if he resigns its an easy way out for them and prevents him claiming any benefits if he is able to do so.

Any advise or knowledge you guys can pass on?

Cheers Phil

https://www.williambrose.com/resources/dismissing-an-employee-within-2-years/

Within 2 years not many rights, at that point they could also just get rid of him which could look worse on employment history.

Life lesson is don’t answer yes to that question

Copy and paste still doesn’t work under Android/Chrome.

Your son should suggest he will do that as soon as that member of management is prepared to put his request in writing.

I think your instinct is correct..Although I’d be cautious of putting anything on writing if no official action is taking place. Verbal communication can be argued against (misinterpretation, feeling under pressure etc.)

A written reply can’t easily be backtracked on.

Sound’s a bit dodgy.. Has the ‘management’ put this in writing, is there any back story of grievances or disciplinary action?

He should leave on his terms not theirs, so I’d suggest he treads water whilst looking for something else. Also consider submitting a formal grievance if he’s being pressured to resign because he’s unhappy, management have a duty of care to address dissatisfaction, so them suggesting he resigns without any concern regarding why he’s unhappy sounds pretty ominous, a bit of a cop out, really.

Edit .. As Mike said, how long has he worked there?

Now a member of management has indicated that its not in the business interest for him to continue in his position and has told him to resign providing a months notice.

He has been in the position over 6 months less than a year.

I think this is totally wrong and its normal career progression to look at other roles.

In the 2 sides to everything, if I had someone who had been in the role 6 months I’d still be expecting them to learn, they are taking time and resources/effort/cash to be taught/brought up to speed. He doesn’t want to stay they would rather invest in somebody who does. Check his contract but they could probably let him go tomorrow for no actual reason – the one they have is good enough.

It is normal to look at career progression but it’s also normal to show some commitment to the one you have and not answer the question the way he did.

If he is unhappy time to figure out why and pull his finger out on the job hunting and keeping.

I have told him not to send the email until he has discussed it with someone who knows the law, he could say its been mis interpreted the manager could also deny it.

I’ve told him to go into work continue as normal, be happy and do a good job and see what is said.

They can’t expect him to just resign.  Either they fire him or make his position redundant, neither of which seems possible.  It’s perfectly reasonable for employees to be keeping an active eye on the job market but perhaps he should have kept this quiet.  But since his employers know, I still can’t see what they can do other than make life “difficult” and they need to be very careful here also.

I have told him not to send the email until he has discussed it with someone who knows the law, he could say its been mis interpreted the manager could also deny it.

The law is they can fire him as he’s only been there 6 months. There’s always to sides to a story if he’s not interested been looking elsewhere he may not have been pulling his weight.

Why resign? As long as he performs, keep the wages until he finds something else.

A fair days pay for a fair days work and all that.

He also has a recent review document from the CEO that says performance output etc is all OK.

Yes maybe they can just fire him as he has been with the company less then 2 years, i don’t understand that element.

tbh just sounds like a heads up that they’ll not be continuing his employment going forward.

Question I’d be asking is will he need to work the months notice?

If he leaves he’ll not be able to claim for 6 months, you are correct there.

Ultimately, sounds like there’s no future there, unless he starts some serious arse kissing. So tell him to get hunting for something else. There’s no point in a fighting a battle he won’t win.

Yes maybe they can just fire him as he has been with the company less then 2 years

Indeed, but they still need a very good reason to exercise this right.

https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/eligibility-to-claim-unfair-dismissal

Yes maybe they can just fire him as he has been with the company less then 2 years, i don’t understand that element.

We voted away our employment rights. Simple as within the first 2 years they can get shot for no reason at all.

He can stick it out but one of 3 things could happen

1) Everyone forgets about it he does his best and stays

2) He gets a letter saying he has been let go as it’s not working out

3) He gets a letter saying he has been let go as it’s not working out  and the chance to resign

He should probably also consider if leaving on good terms and at least getting a reference out of it, is something worth while(and possible).

Simple as within the first 2 years they can get shot for no reason at all.

No, it just means that he doesn’t “qualify” for challenging against unfair dismissal.  They still need a very real and valid reason to terminate the employment which he could potentially challenge through other routes.  But maybe it does sound like he should simply make an amicable exit.

If the employer isn’t a complete fool the reference will just be “x worked here from ddmmyy to ddmmyy in the role of xxxxx”. It’s too dangerous today to put anything that’s not a fact in a reference.

What’s the probationary period?

If he’s inside that they can simply fail him and it’s goodnight Vienna, although I suspect they may need to give him one or two negative marks as part of his ongoing probation review. They have been doing ongoing probation reviews, haven’t they?

Just tell him to go to HR and say that he feels like he is being harassed because of his sexuality.

If they’re being like that, there’s no point playing nice – just have fun making their lives as hard as possible. It’s not like 6 months is hard to cover up on a CV.

If they’re asking him to resign, it’s because his manager can’t be arsed to fire him using methods that adhere to the company policy and they know that performance reviews won’t flag up poor performance. If they break that policy and your son has made a complaint to HR, it’s going to look quite bad on their part. Then he can throw a grenade into the room and tell HR he is being unfairly dismissed due to his protected characteristic.

I’m struggling with this one.

Your son has worked there for less than a year, he is unhappy there and he is looking for work elsewhere.

So you’re getting all precious about his rights because his employers on finding this out are suggesting to him that maybe neither he is right for the job nor the job is right for him.

He needs to move on under his own volition or take the job seriously. The only other possible course of action is to establish why he is ‘unhappy’ and address that issue if he sees a future in his current role.

Nahh Psling,

My boss would understand if I was getting burnout/bored with my work, but would respect me enough professionally and trust me to still get my work done and leave when the time was right. In return he’d expect me to train the new guy up and write a good handover. Good managers aren’t stupid, even if you don’t tell them, they usually know when you’re looking for a new job.

Its a small business they don’t have a HR department, although their policy clearly states they are against bullying and all the other standard PC wording.

Its a simple case of they have a new project starting, if he is thinking of leaving he should resign before it starts so they can get someone else in, he has passed the 6 month probation period with no issues, it was only a few weeks ago the CEO told me what a great job he’s doing and all the team love him.

The acting CEO just seems to be thinking if your looking for another job you should just resign. The actual CEO is on hoilday.

he has passed the 6 month probation period with no issues, it was only a few weeks ago the CEO told me what a great job he’s doing and all the team love him.

Has he told you why he is unhappy there then? Everything appears to be going well and he would appear to have fitted in well with other employees. It seems his ‘unhappiness’ is key to this and may need to be resolved both in his own head and with his employers before the resolution you would like might be achieved?

If he resigns, unless you or he is independently wealthy or has a guaranteed job to go to he may be ineligible to claim Universal Credit, or sanctioned for up to three months.

The unhappiness is a result of it being a new role, the actual role hasn’t really taken off and it has little workload once the original groundwork has been done, he’s getting frustrated because he does not have enough to do.

They are hoping to grow this type of work but they have to rely on other departments to providing the funding which isn’t happening.

His direct boss thinks he should do other work in the mean time, one boss thinks if he’s looking for a job he should just leave.

If he had the work to do he would not be looking at other jobs, i guess really its how he leaves if they can’t improve the role.

what is the role?

That being the case it looks like he needs to arrange a meeting with his direct boss / ceo on return from holiday to discuss his position and how they can grow his role. He is obviously able and keen to work as long as they can give him the work. That can only be positive for them.

I wish him luck.

he’s getting frustrated because he does not have enough to do.

perhaps he needs to go looking for more work to do. If his supervisor can’t help, go to his manager. If his manager can’t help, then ask if he can approach other teams to see if there’s anything he can do to help.

Needs to be seen to be proactive when the work dries up, rather than being seen as CBA

I think the basic fact is that he is leaving that company. Whether he resigns or gets sacked it doesn’t matter too much.

The sensible course of action is to start seriously looking for a new job and hope he gets one before he’s let go from the current one. He isn’t going to get any redress for any dodgy employment practices unless he feels he’s been discriminated against on the basis of gender, race, age etc

it was only a few weeks ago the CEO told me what a great job he’s doing and all the team love him.

That seems like an odd conversation to be having with your son’s boss. I would also completely disregard it as he’s not exactly like to say “yeah he passed but nobody likes him”

Surely this is just a *nice* heads up saying

“you’ve got sod all rights and we’re going to sack you, unless you want that on your CV, resign”

As someone who ran a small business, people were the hardest part and finding good ones was even harder. People were the most important factor to the success of the business. It’s a 2 way contract and if someone was good and committed there is no way you’d want them to leave. In fact you’d fight to the last to keep them. Occasionally we’d sense they were looking for alternative jobs ( it happens) then we’d work out the issues and try our best to hang on to them. ( pay more / change hours / develop a role)

If someone was mediocre then you’d also hang on to them because finding someone else was always hard and chances are somebody else may be no better and you’d only find this out months later after you’d invested time / energy training, risking them with your clients. Better the devil you know, a bird in the hand, training support etc to improve.

If someone was a bit rubbish but still committed and wanted to learn then we’d still value that commitment and invest time / money to help them improve.

Only if there was no hope we’d take the the really difficult decision ( and it’s not a nice thing to do ) to ask them to leave. On occasions we will have agreed that the person resigned rather than being fired as it was better all round.

Then we’d have to go through the utter ball ache of adverts / elloborate cryptic cv’s / recruitment agents sending people who were totally unqualified / interviews / 2nd interviews / arrrghhhhhh

Is this his first job? If so then he’s approaching it the wrong way. Expect your first job to be a bit shit but what it gives you is experience (and hopefully some on the job training). Most of us are bored at work, I’d rather have less work/stress and be a bit more bored tbh so I envy your son’s position :p

As for his immediate situation, def don’t resign if he’ll need to claim benefits whilst job hunting. It likely won’t be difficult for them to come up with a reason to fire him (or even make the role redundant if there’s not a FTE worth of work there), it’s not really fair but I wouldn’t waste time and effort trying to fight it.

He needs to just get on with it and resign. Under 2 years so they can effectively do what they like. The benefits issue is probably irrelevant if he is young and not contributed enough in the last two years to be eligible. Times have changed.

He also needs to get on and resign for his own benefit. The world of work has changed significantly and jobs for life are no more but to be looking elsewhere after 6 months means the job is a wrongun or it just does not suit him. To be asked that question in the first place clearly means he was acting/behaving/performing like someone who did not want to be there.

I don’t know how old or experienced he is in the world of work but there are probably a few life lessons to be picked up here – first one being to put your game face on when in work. He could be in a rough job and not be being treated well or it could be this is part of the life lesson that work is, well, work and they don’t pay you without expecting quite a lot in return. I teacher 17/18 year olds for a living and spend a lot of time with them preparing for the world beyond school. One of the issues I see more now is that with school being more ‘inspiring’ and less grind than a generation ago (teachers spend inordinate amounts of time making shit stuff fun – kids turn up expecting to be entertained in each and every lesson. Graft is heavily disguised) students are rapidly having to learn that the world beyond the gates is not devoted to their entertainment and is not always a barrel of laughs. That’s why they pay you to do it. Forgive me if I have got the wrong end of the stick to his age/experience or attitude..

OP, bit of self awareness needed here, in addition to the legal position.  Think about it from the business perspective.

Is your son experienced in the role, or does he have little experience and is being actively trained?  If it’s the latter, you can see why the business might not be interested in continuing to train and pay him, if he will soon be off, especially if they have noticed he is not enthusiastic about the job.  What doesn’t make sense about that?  After 6 months, the company can pretty do what they like.  From the employee point of view, yeah he should have kept that quiet until he found a new job.  Depends on the conversation as well.  Is he valuable enough that the organisation might look to change his role to keep him, or has he completely burnt his bridges.  I once started on post doc training scheme where the company ‘expected employees to be loyal’ as it was expensive to train and keep them on, compared to less qualified folk.  Problem was, the job was crap, so people just got some experience and left, but you can see why the company wanted to dissuade them from doing so.

Arrange a meeting with boss and tell him you’ve reconsidered, really like the role, and would like to continue, making an effort to work harder.

Then carry on job hunting, (but he may still get fired)