Employment law and redundancy help..

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  • Employment law and redundancy help..
  • kevster
    Member

    Interesting subject, one that may soon apply to me. I will be ringing ACAS over the next few days. I’ve worked here for 10 years and don’t want to lose out on redundancy eligibility for something like that. Think the lunch break option is a no goer though!

    DrRSwank
    Member

    The selling of a company doesn’t automatically entitle you to a redundancy pay out. If the job is the same and your benefits are not downwardly effected then there’s no reason why redundancy would apply.

    HOWEVER, make sure they don’t issue you with a new contract under the new companies name. If they do make sure it has a continuity of service clause otherwise you’ll lose the 8 years entitlement you’ve currently got.

    Contract is not needed to bring redundancy claims – you just need to be able to prove they’ve been paying you.

    And it is your responsibility as an employee to take lunch breaks – so your employer is not liable.

    Having said all of that I might not be right so go and talk to the friendly people at Citizens Advice…..

    gonefishin
    Member

    If they sold it should I get redundancy even if I was offered the same position but with the new owner

    Almost certainly not. If the business is sold then you would likely be transferred under TUPE regulations. Under these regs if you decline to take up a new position you are generally held to have resigned. Your length of service, 8 years in your case, is considered to be continuous though.

    wrecker
    Member

    This happened to my wife. They (massive civils engineery company) made her/everyone reapply for their jobs, she lost her previous service as did everyone else. lost accrued holiday entitlement too.

    geetee1972
    Member

    You don’t need a formal written contract of employment for there to be a contract. That you’ve been turning up for the last eight years and they’ve been paying you means that contract is implied and as such you’re subject to all the same protection in employment as anyone else.

    As pointed out above, change of ownership of the company will not trigger redundancy. Change of role or loss of role will. That may happen as a result of the change of ownership or it may not.

    Change of ownership is not necessarily the same thing as change of entity. The owner could sell 100% of the share capital to another person and this would not mean that the company changes it’s legal entity, just who owns the capital. If however the company is bought by another legal entity, then this would automatically grant you continuity of service under the TUPE rules. I am not 100% sure of this but even if the new owner did issue you a new contract and you did sign it, it wouldn’t be enforceable.

    If a change is coming though, a change is coming and you should start thinking about what that might mean and what the implications are. For sure I would be checking that my redundancy insurance policy was up to date.

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    Hmmm.. slightly worrying news. What might happen if I fell over a trip hazard and hurt my back just before the business was sold?

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Have you thought about just looking for another job?

    Aidy
    Member

    Why worrying?

    Seems a bit odd to expect redundancy pay and to keep your regular role.

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    Redundancy insurance? Where is good for that? As I stated.. nothing has been mentioned to me and its more of a gut feeling. I do own my own business too so it wouldn’t be the end of the world if I lost my job just a loss of a guaranteed regular income

    geetee1972
    Member

    Redundancy insurance? Where is good for that?

    Any of the major insurers will provide it as part of an ASU Policy – Accident, Sickness & Unemployment. It’s nothing like as expensive as you might imagine.

    I have a number of policies, that together cover my half of the mortgage, but to illustrate, one provides a pay out of £625 per month for up to 12 months (with a one month deferral period, i.e. it doesn’t pay out until the second month of the claim) and costs £40 a month.

    What might happen if I fell over a trip hazard and hurt my back just before the business was sold?

    If it’s just a change of share ownership then the legal entity employing you would still exist and the claim would be made against them and their insurance. If the business was acquired and you were TUPE transferred across to a new entity then I imagine the new owner would process the claim. When you acquire any business you acquire all their liabilities as well as their assets.

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    Just wondered if anyone could offer any advice… useful or just amusing.
    I’ve been working in my current job for 8 years and don’t have a contract. I get the feeling my boss is trying to sell the business. If they sold it should I get redundancy even if I was offered the same position but with the new owner. Also, I’ve never had a proper lunch break.. I get to eat but never had a proper 20/30 minute break away from work. Does my employer technically owe me payment for 1840 lunch breaks I’ve never had?

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    Thanks for all the responses.. need to put my thinking cap on and decide which avenue to go down. I’m not sure id want to stay in my job if the ownership was transferred as I get left to my own devices and have cushty hours at the minute. I’m pretty sure id hate my job if I had a new boss pestering me

    Aidy
    Member

    Should the company sell, it would be a perfect time to renegotiate contracts (and salaries). Probably worth thinking about.

    johndoh
    Member

    Not surprised the owner wants to sell with work-dodging employees to contend with.

    geetee1972
    Member

    I’m not sure id want to stay in my job if the ownership was transferred as I get left to my own devices and have cushty hours at the minute

    Well the first thing I would say is don’t assume that the new owner will want to shake things up quite so much. If you’re doing a good job and they have any sense about them, the new owner will want to know what they need to do to hold onto you. In the event that ownership changes (in any scenario) the most important thing to do is hold onto your key employees (note key, rather than most senior; the two are not always the same thing).

    For sure, the new owner(s) are going to want to know what you do and how you do it, and it would be best to be open about this and say that you work best when left your own devices but I would also acknowledge their need to feel secure about that working not just for you. So ask them what they need to see/know and what they expect in terms of results etc. You should be able to maintain what you do and how you do it assuming of course you’re currently doing it really well.

    Besides, the minute you change job to another company you’re guaranteed to be right back under the microscope; you’ll be on a probationary period and you’ll be under scrutiny to prove you can deliver against all those things you sold them on in the hiring process. You’ll inevitably be under far more scrutiny than if the ownership changes at your existing employer.

    That said, if there is one thing I’ve learned about the work place it’s that cushy numbers are utterly unsustainable in the long run.

    If you’ve been cruising, getting by with the minimal effort and especially if you’ve not been making your goals (maybe no one has set you goals either) then for sure things are going to change.

    You’re best bet in that situation is to as invisible as possible. That means you’re not a star but at the same time, you’re not identified as a problem.

    In my experience of acquisitions, if cost reductions through synergies are not the driving motivation for the acquisition (i.e. how much head count can we cull) then there is still a desire to know who are the stars, the problem children and the bits in between.

    Premier Icon tommyhine
    Subscriber

    If you were to go to an employment tirbunal if you word laid off and you were worried that you had no official contract the judges use three tests to determine whether you are an employee or a contractor.
    1. Control Test – do you have control over what you do (does you’re employee tell you what your job is)
    2. The intergration test – where you selected by your employer for the task
    3. The economic reality test – are you working of you’re own account
    sounds to me like you’re an employee and would be entitled to anything an employee should be which is not to say you’ll get a job at with the new owners and a payout (unless you negotiate a retainer becuase you’re that good).

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