Employers having a laugh

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  • Employers having a laugh
  • konabunny
    Member

    Not sure you know what de facto means. Also, the contract wouldn’t be void as a whole if terms fell below the statutory minimums – it would just be unenforceable in those respects.

    crankboy
    Member

    I am a lawyer but no the square root of not a lot about employment. The contract seems to contain unlawful terms if you sign it it can be enforced in so far as it can be made lawful by crossing bits out but not changing wording “the blue pencil test “?..the current contract is binding unless and untilled lawfully terminated. The whole scenario smacks of constructive dismissal but seek legal advise before any steps are taken. I think ACAS should be your first step for info. Is the guy an owner or just a manager. From what you say a full team aproach to the owners may be inorder. Small business value and reputation is very often their staff nit the Co name or the actual work they do. Personally I would be thinking long and hard about uping sticks as a team and either working elsewhere or setting up together.

    ninfan
    Member

    http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/8/6/Varying-a-contract-of-employment-accessible-version.pdf

    (I’ll bet they didn’t factor the redundancy/unfair dismissal settlements into how much they were going to save!)

    nealglover
    Member

    And what would those jobs be, retail or hospitality? Do you mean minimum wage jobs that no one with a decent education does?

    On the whole though, most of the people I meet who say they have to work weekends are bar staff, chefs or waiters/waitresses. Those are proper jobs, thems are.

    😯

    Those posts make you sound like a real tool.

    Premier Icon sadmadalan
    Subscriber

    Whatever you do, make sure that you create an evidence log. If you have a meeting, send an email to confirm what happened in the meeting. Keep copies of all document and all emails in a secure off site facility. Document working practices before and after the GM took over. If there are records of the hours that you have worked (and there should be) take copies. Get everyone to do this.

    Junkyard
    Member

    the contract wouldn’t be void as a whole if terms fell below the statutory minimums – it would just be unenforceable in those respects.

    They need to argue you accepted a contract that was not lawful, that you did not sign, that you were not consulted on, and that made your conditions much worse to the extent that much of the contract was unenforcable and you took them to court over the changes.
    that might not be that easy to argue [ except on here].

    It depends but it is pretty much a cut and dried constructive claim tbh

    Time off for some teeth out… Ok I will bite. Colleague had 2 impacted wisdom teeth removed and a molar done at the same time . The molar was snapped in half and needed drilling out. They dislocated his jaw under general aneathestic , gave him 2 black eyes and turned his head into a football. He couldn’t eat or talk for 72 hrs .Jeez some people.
    As for working with a cold. Its the food industry , there are laws about working with any illness , its not MTFU and get on with it, which we do
    I worked for 6 weeks with my hand in a splint / immobilised whilst waiting for an op to fix a snapped tendon . Just got on with it .

    GM is just a manager , and yes , he could probably save maybe £1k a week by removing everyone ( apart from the 65yr old he employed to deliver 50kg beer barrels ) and replacing us all with newer ,younger , fitter and more enthusiastic members of staff.
    Many thanks to all the sensible people who took the time to respond to this thread . General mood at work seems to be have a friendly chatt with new GM to see if changes can be made . If they cant then its going to be awkward

    Premier Icon ononeorange
    Subscriber

    I’m not trying to get a bite but my current contract (and at least two previous ones) contain the “work at any time asked” clause – I genuinely thought they are pretty standard now?

    Premier Icon totalshell
    Subscriber

    with ononeorange on this.. big chage for some but 10 years ago i was working on any day of the year with reasonable notice any hours of the day with reasonable notice at any location with reasonable notice contract.. and yes the micky got took by management.

    one day i was working in sheffield the next skipton the next manchester all be there for 7 work till 5 no allowance for travel or costs.. where you lived how you got to work was not an issue for them i was told. i was once given a verbal warning for discussing salary levels with a colleague ( proffesional misconduct!)

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Wow, mate, never stops at your place does it!
    I know you like the job and the place is kind of your baby, but they’ve really gone too far.Surely the industry is picking up now (sorry, I’m only guessing), if you don’t get any where with ACAS, you’ve gotta get out for your own sanity! There must be another place that would benefit from your work ethic and years of experience.

    Premier Icon Andy
    Subscriber

    **** me Rob that sounds awful 🙁

    We punch above our weight and seem to win contracts and new business almost by accident.

    Because you make a great product. Maybe you should remind him of that?

    NB Did you say to him “Is that the best you’ve got?” 😉

    Premier Icon Andy
    Subscriber

    Oh and Dezb +1 Start advertising yourself as available – social media, LinkedIn, Singlehopworld etc etc

    zokes
    Member

    You sound pretty awesome, a real high flier with talk like that. That or a puffed up self important waste of skin. Forgive me, sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference.

    He used to post as bwaaarrrp, and had a big fit because he thought he knew more than a lecturer that failed him. He is (or was) a student for most of his STW posting life. I’ll let you add that to you decision making to work out which of the two above boxes he best fits in.

    grantway
    Member

    Get everyone to join a Union that represents your trade/type of work
    If not just for supporting your legal and employment rights.

    Unsure but for what your saying I do feel its incorrect if not illegal to work for nothing
    from being paid to not, if not immoral to ask. Unless you have been given a massive pay rise.

    But the SSP can be changed and also Bank Holidays payments.
    But I am sure to stop a Bank Holiday payment at the moment is if an Employee fails
    to work any part of the week before. As this happened years back to a colleague I worked with.

    Work on your CV Sounds a great employee, give the story to the press as I am sure
    the companies they supply will terminate the contracts due to bad publicity.

    Premier Icon robbo167
    Subscriber

    Rob..I’ve been in a similiar sort of thing,gentle chats don’t work,just bat it straight back saying the contract is unacceptable and illegal as it stands..make sure you know how the Working Time Directive works and keep as your mantra “no-one works for free”
    Its time to put your foot down ,you have been flexible in the past and that has been your undoing really…now they are taking the mickey!
    The whole business needs to be put on a more structured footing,a good thing for the employee’s, but there are better ways of doing it.

    In my case everything got sorted,it was more a lack of communication really, and when I moved on a few years ago the company was doing very well.
    Good luck mate

    pitchpro2011
    Member

    Well there we go fella half a story, a broke jaw is quite different from having a tooth out. This is also the case with the contract I’m sure as I’ve seen a great deal of contracts and there’s no way it says half the things the OP states, he’s exaggerating due to his anger.
    When I first started my job 9 years ago the contracts were very unfair by any companies standards (a lot better now) but was no where near as harsh as stated here.
    If you want to deal with this properly, you all need to meet and discuss exactly what you find unfair, come to an agreement between yourselves and then all put it in writting to the company. This is far more effective than moaning to your boss. He’s been given a target to hit and this is his plan to do so, plans can be changed.

    ….the stupid comment putting down barstaff, ect is moronic. I work in retail but 70% of my staff have degrees and even masters and will in a few years probably be earning double what I do. That said even the ones who don’t will make something of themselves. The most successful people I’ve met have no education at all.

    Could anyone point out what they would do or what the legalities are of a 50 percent partner changing the locks on a premises or even why they would do this

    konabunny
    Member

    Mate – if you’re the other partner, speak to a lawyer.

    And what would those jobs be, retail or hospitality? Do you mean minimum wage jobs that no one with a decent education does?

    What do you class as a decent education? I left school at 17 with a handful of acceptable GCSE’s

    I work in retail. I’m in the shop now – it just happens to be my shop. I don’t worry too much about it being the dregs of employment though as it’s my 2nd business. My other business makes me around 3 x the average national salary though, so I cope.

    We could probably scrape by on my wife’s earnings from her own business if we had to. I don’t think she even went to school.

    the hustler
    Member

    Could anyone point out what they would do or what the legalities are of a 50 percent partner changing the locks on a premises or even why they would do this

    A fifty percent partner shouldn’t be doing this without consulting the other 50% unless there is some other underlying info we dont know ie that 50% is doing all the work, even then its wrong and should be handled differently

    A fifty percent partner shouldn’t be doing this without consulting the other 50% unless there is some other underlying info we dont know ie that 50% is doing all the work, even then its wrong and should be handled differently

    I can’t connect the two myself at the moment as to what makes someone think ill change the locks and I actually do the work at the lock change site.

    Someone must think I’m going to clear the place out or am mentally unstable.

    the hustler
    Member

    Are you saying you are a 50% partner and the other partner changed the locks where you work?

    Are you saying you are a 50% partner and the other partner changed the locks where you work?

    I believe tried or asked before finally deciding not, I just dont understand, before this there had been a dissagreement , I basically steered clear to avoid saying something I really would regret or even as far a coming to blows, the other partner tells me that because they couldn’t contact me they thought they should change the locks.

    something not quite right? and its weighted heavily enough for me to say enough

    Junkyard
    Member

    Well there we go fella half a story, a broke jaw is quite different from having a tooth out. This is also the case with the contract I’m sure as I’ve seen a great deal of contracts and there’s no way it says half the things the OP states, he’s exaggerating due to his anger.

    that an interesting way of saying you were wrong

    ASTR you are a business owner not a worker and i wonder how close they get to the national average whilst you make 3 x it. does that help you understand the difference 😉

    Well there we go fella half a story, a broke jaw is quite different from having a tooth out. This is also the case with the contract I’m sure as I’ve seen a great deal of contracts and there’s no way it says half the things the OP states, he’s exaggerating due to his anger.

    a broke jaw ? The hospital dislocated it to take out 3 teeth. You clearly cannot read or understand what you have read.
    “Im sure as I’ve seen a great deal of contracts ” well thats good for you, but what would be the point in me lying or exagerating?. It contains all of the items I stated in the opening post.
    Who the heck do you think you are ?

    ASTR you are a business owner not a worker and i wonder how close they get to the national average whilst you make 3 x it. does that help you understand the difference

    Not quite sure I understand your point Junky. I am a worker – I’m out grafting every day. I’ve spent years ‘working for the man’. My first year of work was on a YTS scheme, earning £37.50 a week (the route into becoming a sparky). I got paid overtime at £1.50 an hour.

    Currently I employ two people – one permanent member of staff in the shop and one self employed electrical operative (not a qualified spark). The girl in the shop gets minimum wage, as that’s what the current market dictates and that’s what the turnover of the shop allows. She’s been in the job a couple of weeks and her enthusiasm and general demeanour seems to be having a marked improvement on sales from the last employee. Because we had a good week this week, I gave her a £25 bonus on top of her £150 wages – that will continue if she continues to perform well.

    The electrical op gets earns almost twice the national average (as it is at the moment, the equivalent of £50k p.a.). He earns this because he can work in a particular environment and apply himself to certain tasks, that allow me to charge him out at a rate that the market dictates and makes me a profit also.

    She’s made up with the job and he’s totally happy with his role too. It all works for me, so that’s three people from three different employment demographics that are all satisfied with their position. Seems OK to me?

    nealglover
    Member

    The girl in the shop gets minimum wage, as that’s what the current market dictates and that’s what the turnover of the shop allows.

    I think you should give her a 100% pay rise.

    You can cover it with a 10% pay cut for yourself 😉

    Junkyard
    Member

    Not quite sure I understand your point Junky. I am a worker

    I do not see how i can simplify tbh
    You own the business you dont work for it – check your wage and hers to see the difference.
    I am not having a dig or a go about this.

    The girl in the shop gets minimum wage, as that’s what the current market dictates and that’s what the turnover of the shop allows

    The one that allows you to earn 3 x the national average whilst she earns what 50% of it ? Again this is your choice and clearly you can afford more if you choose to.

    . Seems OK to me?

    Of course it does you make the most out of this why would it not be ok?
    I doubt any of them would refuse a wage rise 😉

    Not having a dig about you per se but the retail sector market rate is the minimum wage which is what we were discussing. IMHO its reasonable to call the bare minimum you can legally pay a low wage.

    Right – I see you aren’t having a pop, so this is just an explanation. The shop is a sideline, but forget for a minute I have another business.

    Last week was a good week in the shop and (haven’t got the books in front of me) turned over around £750. Of this £750, her wages are £150, the rent is £75 and to re-stock what was sold would cost around £250. This leaves me around £225.

    I gave her an extra £25. She made £175 and I made £200. Ok, she did 4 days work for that and I did 1 (plus probably half a day dealing with suppliers) but I don’t see this as an unfair balance in this scenario. Like I say, this was a good week and it is usually less. If I start getting rich from the shop, then the balance will obviously shift, but she will still get rewarded for good performance.

    The other business I work for the majority of the income – I just get paid very well for working nights out on a motorway. Recently I had the opportunity to take someone on and he gets paid well for what he does and I make a bit out of him.

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