Meanwhile Mrs PP is chatting to her friends “He is trying to drag me to the bloody TT again, he went and booked it without telling me so I’ve tried saying that I can’t get the time off work, but now I think he is going to come in and talk to my manager, what do I do?”

Bravo! Best post so far!! 😉

have you checked mumsnet?

Our underwriters are banned from taking holiday over Xmas as its renewals time and therefore everyone is needed in the office. Busiest day in the office last year was the 23rd, it was bedlam. Everyone accepts it, its rubbish but then the summers are normally really quiet.

There’s two issues here.
One is that your wife’s employer won’t grant her the leave she wants.
The second is your wife’s employer is an arse.

Issue 1: not much you can do about it. Her boss can decline her taking leave if he has a valid reason. If not, maybe a trip to HR to discuss it, saying that you need a break because you’re so overworked. Just taking it anyway despite being told you can’t have it will result in disciplinary action and possible dismissal and she won’t have a leg to stand on.

Issue 2: Either go down the formal route with HR and see what can be done regarding working hours, pay and so on. Or get the CV out there and start interviewing for a better place to work.

Or go to the doctors and get signed off long term with stress…

Cougar – “unfairly” as in the meaning of it in employment law.

I’ve been a union branch convener and a senior manage with hire and fire power. I can see this from both sides and my history on here includes a lot of advice to workers being treated unfairly.

In this case unless other workers have been treated differently then there is nothing “unfair” in the legal sense about it

Right. I got 4.5 hours sleep last night. I’ve not read everything above but

I asked before but still no reply from PP – have they given her a reason for rejecting her request (such as ‘we are starting a big project that week’

It’s the end of quarter or something. She has to run some reports, basically. They’ve got rid of nearly everyone else who can do this. (IT company….) so that’s her problem it seems.
Her manager is generally not a bad bloke. I’ve not met him but he seems to value her (mostly) but her workload is too high. He’s not flatly refused this leave as yet apparently but it’s not something we can move. It’s not school holidays.
She’s been upset about it at home more than once. She’s had to work 4 Christmasses in a row because everyone else had to take it off because they’ve got kids.
We’re going to drink tea and do her CV tonight.
Honestly, if she comes home tonight and says she’s quit I’ll be happy. She won’t but I wish she would.

Maybe others that could cover have already booked holiday in June?

My wife wanted time off in March but was told not possible so she’s away now – not ideal but no complaint.

We had a contractor who’s been with us for 3 years who booked a holiday in Dec then asked for time off. It was problematic for us but agreed it in the end. Unfortunately he came back to get given notice on his just renewed contract – I think the holiday was the last straw really.

So employer not doing anything wrong IMO but if they’re not good people to work for anyway then I’d be interested to see if I really could get a doubling in salary by moving jobs….

Grumpysculler – PP has not said that leave was verbally agreed; ‘no problem’ could mean several things and without knowing clearly how the manager in question responded to Mrs PP you’re speculating.
‘No problem’ could mean – I told manager and he said……nothing; thanks for letting me know; ok; yes, that should be ok; yes, that will be ok so submit your request when the system opens and I will approve.
The absence of a negative does not mean a positive so unless he unequivocally said ‘yes’ and that can be proven, nothing changes.

Its a real bummer and I sympathise despite my comments about the legalities of the situation.

Polishing up the CV seems a good idea.

How I would approach this:

Back to the boss stating ( very politely and meekly) that she really wants to go on this trip, explain the reasons for the asking prior to the leave window opening and that she booked on the basis of his answer to this and that she is now dismayed at the response from him, feels devalued and taken for granted and in the light of this will be looking for another job. Do this more in sadness than in anger. Then back up this meeting with an email and then print off the email and replies.

It’s the end of quarter or something. She has to run some reports, basically. They’ve got rid of nearly everyone else who can do this.

You don’t have a leg to stand on. Sorry.

She’s had to work 4 Christmasses in a row because everyone else had to take it off because they’ve got kids.

Do you mean Christmas day? If so, that’s shite and unfair. I’d of told them to do one.

Manager says yes in the beginning.
Their boss then says no.
Manager has to retract verbal, non-binding agreement.
PP pays for holiday before being 100% sure.
Plan backfires and manager is the bad guy.
It really is a non-issue.

Or go to the doctors and get signed off long term with stress…

As an employer myself, I find it quite distasteful that anyone could think this is a fair way to resolve an issue in the workplace.

It’s the end of quarter or something. She has to run some reports, basically. They’ve got rid of nearly everyone else who can do this. (IT company….)

Can she not suggest she does the majority of it before she goes then handover the last few days to someone else?

Maybe others that could cover have already booked holiday in June

No. Nobody else has anything booked.

Can she not suggest she does the majority of it before she goes then handover the last few days to someone else?

As I already said, she’s found someone to cover her but the manager isn’t happy with that. Dunno why.

—————
I’ve got a sneaky suspicion it’ll be approved shortly.

It really is a non-issue.

Not for PP and his missus it’s not.

Then a bit of negotiation should be in order to ensure someone can cover – depends how demanding running the reports is I suppose.

Their boss then says no

No it’s him directly.

As I already said, she’s found someone to cover her but the manager isn’t happy with that. Dunno why.

Perhaps the manager isn’t confident about allowing this other person complete the important task?

You both seem poorly paid and in an expensive part of the world. Could this be the push you need to look for jobs (rather than just a job for Madame) in another part of the country/world. A good mechanic can make money anywhere so your wife would be able to search far and wide.

I was in a similar position and just had to cancel my plans (no financial loss unlike yoursselves – but at five months you can probably negociate on the accommodation and may get some of the ticket price back). It was one of the demoralising factors that resulted in me resigning and making a new life for myself – thank you miserable incompetent line manager.

Thing is, there’s nothing unreasonable in what we’ve done. We’ve given a MASSIVE amount of notice, played by the rules and the spirit of the rules and then they attempt shaft us. That’s what pisses me off. I can put up with all sorts of crap, but mess with my time off and I’m gone. We’ll be at the TT

The worst that can happen is she gets fired. I’m happy with that, but I don’t think they’ve got the balls personnaly.
The best is that she goes somewhere else. Also fine.
I’ve been saying they treat her like shit for 10 years at least, but it’s too easy to turn up and take the money. I’ve been there when I was younger, done a crap job because it’s easier. I was lucky that my kick up the ass was redundancy but I’m wiser now. That’s why I only stayed in my last job for a year before going back to the previous job. It’s slightly easier for me but there’s jobs so local she can walk to work.

Nuff said from me.

Good luck – I feel your pain, I like to go to NZ for a few weeks sometimes, the sooner you book the cheaper it is, but can’t get leave authorised that early. Bit of a punt.

The manager won’t (shouldn’t) deal with you anyway about your partner’s HR situation and you will make her look like she can’t manager her own life. You have a better chance pleading your case and asking nicely.

You have a better chance pleading your case and asking nicely.

The only chance even. Unfortunately some people don’t respond to pleasant, reasonable requests as they’d feel less important than they do being a ****. Experience tells me that ****s rarely get fired.

she doesn’t get paid anywhere near what she’s worth, she’s covering for people earning 2-3 times her salary

well then resign a week before the TT and some other idiot will soon be recruited to work longer for less pay, as is the current employment situation now, its happening all the time and workers seem to have to accept it, or just moan on a cycling forum.

She’s been upset about it at home more than once. She’s had to work 4 Christmasses in a row because everyone else had to take it off because they’ve got kids.

That is just wrong and needs to be dealt with.

Can she not dial in to run the reports? That’s what I do when I’m off. Sounds a bit shite all round. You should (and I can’t believe nobody has suggested this yet) own him with bombers or wee in his shoes. Possibly both if he’s displaying high levels of cockwombleness 😉

Standards STW standards

she doesn’t get paid anywhere near what she’s worth, she’s covering for people earning 2-3 times her salary

Doesn’t mean anything. Nearly everyone (okay, a slight exaggeration) thinks they can do their manager’s (or manager’s manager) job. Some are right, some are delusional. They also think higher qualifications or decades of extra experience shouldn’t mean you should be paid more. Well, work doesn’t really work like that, does it. Unless you are flipping hambugers, and nothing more, things are rarely that simple.

I’d be leaving. If she’s been there 10 years and it’s a company of a certain type, chances are they’d pay her a lot more if she came there new tomorrow.

Definitely time to look around.

And/or, she’s got 5 months to figure out a way of automating the reports, or at least creating a report template which can run off a spreadsheet data-dump that someone else can do. She’s got Q1 to practise.

I’m quite prepared to get her managers phone number and tell him myself, and I might well do that

That is a terrible idea, probably one of the worst things you could do.

She can get a new job paying at least twice as much, immediately, within walking distance of home ?

If that is genuinely the case you wouldn’t see me for dust.

She’s been upset about it at home more than once. She’s had to work 4 Christmasses in a row because everyone else had to take it off because they’ve got kids.

TJ, would this fall foul of “fairness” perhaps, then?

I’m quite prepared to get her managers phone number and tell him myself, and I might well do that

“I’m sorry, but I can’t discuss employee details with a third party as it would be a breach of confidentiality. Bye, sir.”

The OP’s other half should count her self lucky, LUCKY to have such an important & respected job. Such jobs are like verrucas – not everyone’s got one.

I know for a fact that her manager is almost certainly worrying about this very decision. And when they are down the boozer, I imagine.

Moreover, the senior managers will be cutting back on their salaries and golf carts almost as we speak to ensure such a strategic issue does not have such an unreasonable and cranky point of failure.

Come the time of the TT, I’m sure they will keep the OP’s partner up to date with the developments on the Isle of Mann – perhaps (and it wouldn’t uprise me) they might be watching it live so they can give her instant updates.

And let’s be honest, she can’t be that good if she the only one who can do the reporting – if it was hard, loads of people would know how to do it.

In the distant future, in the dotage of her old age the OP’s partner will positively glow with the knowledge of a worthy job, done well for a company that was going. Places.

Ask any lowly, menial, unimportant, grunt worker if they would change the time they spent working at shambolic, badly run failing mess and everyone (52%) will say “I was so lucky. It was all I was capable of, I knew my place. I wouldn’t have it any other way – they were good times – better times.”

And even if her line managers seem, shall we say a bit 1970’s, she can look to her co-workers for her just rewards – maybe they will shower her with “likes” on Facebook – no better thanks than from those “gone before” given to the last mug man/woman standing.

The main “take-out” from this, of course, is that mangers have a difficult life – goodness knows the professional path to leadership is a long one – people who leave companies (or “quitters” as they are known) don’t occur often, you have to carefully bully and engineering the removal of “trouble makers”, ingrates will leave a sinking ship like the rats they are and, of course, people don’t die that often.

So to sum up – congratulations on your retirement/happy birthday/good luck on your marriage (you’re going to need it!) and you are real asset/sad loss and we all appreciate your hard work.

Leave. There are proper employers out there.

Not in my view cougar – unless it meant 4 xmas days and then only perhaps. I have worked all bar 8 xmas days in the last 37 years

I’ve given up trying to book the TT, am currently looking at the Southern 100. Maybe see if you can get those dates and switch the ferry booking?

I’ve given up trying to book the TT, am currently looking at the Southern 100. Maybe see if you can get those dates and switch the ferry booking?

Subtle! I see what youre trying to do there 😉

Manx GP is a good trip too. Bit less mental. There’s the Manx 2 day trial to follow if you take mtbs. Great days out.

very good, BVP7!

Not in my view cougar – unless it meant 4 xmas days and then only perhaps. I have worked all bar 8 xmas days in the last 37 years

Hmm. I’m slightly of the opinion that “but I’ve got kids” shouldn’t automatically trump anyone else’s perfectly valid reasons for wanting time off at Christmas. What if I want to spend time with my elderly mother (she’s got kids too – me)? But then, I’m not a parent so probably biased. Or, y’know, if I was deeply religious or something.

Seems a bit shit to me that someone gets preferential treatment year in, year out because of their lifestyle choices. If I was being stiffed every year I’d probably have a monk on about it.

If I was being stiffed every year

If you have kids, it’s twice a year.

Christmas and your Birthday. 😉

Get out of my head. (-:

You’re probably right on the legal front, but you seriously don’t believe someone (allegedly) grossly underpaid being denied a holiday request with five months’ notice and having arranged cover is being treated unfairly? Jesus, remind me never to work for you

I’ve just refused a holiday in summer for a member of staff. His team had already been halved by holiday he’d approved so he can’t go. It’s 7 months notice but it’s not even remotely unfair. Everyone knows that except in cases like Xmas, bridging days for bank holidays etc that it’s first come first served. If he can negotiate with a colleague to swap with him then he’s on again.

She’s been upset about it at home more than once. She’s had to work 4 Christmasses in a row because everyone else had to take it off because they’ve got kids.

Meh. Everyone has reasons they have priority for certain holiday periods. If she wanted to take an Xmas off she should have tried to book it and spoken to her boss. However this is a good example of a problem. For some people Xmas is a priority, for some the TT. How do you manage to keep everyone happy all the time. You end up, for the most part, with most people mostly happy or at least mostly equally unhappy.

I’ve just refused a holiday in summer for a member of staff. His team had already been halved by holiday he’d approved so he can’t go. It’s 7 months notice but it’s not even remotely unfair. Everyone knows that except in cases like Xmas, bridging days for bank holidays etc that it’s first come first served. If he can negotiate with a colleague to swap with him then he’s on again.

Seems reasonable to me, there’s a perfectly valid business case here and an option to take it if he can find cover. Neither of which seems to be offered to Mrs OP.

Im sure it goes without saying but whatever you 2 decide to do make certain that you are not putting your wife under any pressure to do what she doesn’t want. For some people the idea of looking for a new job is pretty terrifying and they are privately willing to put up with hell to avoid it.