Last place wanted us to install programs on our own personal phones, two factor authentication was one of them, in order to do our jobs. Refused to as they should be supplying the hardware, as one of the programs needed to run the 2FA
would allow IT to wipe the phones remotely, big no from me.

what the app called?
Is it something thats fairly mainstream thing or something more worrying?

An authentication app isnt really a company app, its generic and something people should be getting used to using anyway.

Hang on, we have had this discussed before in relation to using Authenticator type apps.

It’s highly likely that this app falls under MAM, or Mobile App Management, where it is only the app itself that can be controlled/wiped/etc by the agency.  This is as opposed to MDM, or Mobile Device Management, where the entire phone and all apps can be controlled/wiped/etc by the agency.

If it is the former then this is a standard known thing, particularly if from the major suppliers – Microsoft, Jamf, etc, – and really doesn’t represent a security risk to your personal data or phone.  I’d ask the agency if it’s MAM or MDM that is in use for pushing out this app.

Im slightly biased as I am currently trying to get people to install the Microsoft Authenticator on their phones. If it is just the app then the company has no control over your phone and can not remotely wipe it.

If you are happy with the context of the app and what it does then I would say crack on and just do it. Personally, I think in this day in age it shouldn’t be unexpected that you need a phone for work.

I’ve had people complain that they don’t want their work to know personal information about them such as their mobile phone number, I have had to point out that the company has all their bank and personal details as that is how they pay them and sort out their tax.

If enough people refuse then they will just change the contract terms to say it’s a requirement of work.

Hang on, we have had this discussed before in relation to using Authenticator type apps.

Which depending on the app is different. This doesn’t sound like 2FA

If the app is for 2fa, then yeah it’s creating a hash. If it’s for managing or tracking then it’s a different situation entirely l.

Personally, I think in this day in age it shouldn’t be unexpected that you need a phone for work.

In which case work should provide them.

For the OP his lack of power in this situation makes it difficult.  I’d go for the install but disable especially location / access to data- I have location off unless I am using maps anyway

You can download via the Apple App Store but it gets rubbish reviews – all it seems to show is a work calendar and job alerts neither of which are any use to me as RM sets the roster and sends it to me by Whatsapp.

I’d just install it and then uninstall it – claim your phone was reset and you forgot to add it back in – that’ll mark you as “has logged in” somewhere. If it later transpires that you do need the app for actual features (ie time booking or whatever), you can put it back on your phone then.

I’d personally prefer not to have stuff like this on my phone, but I’m also willing to do stuff like this for a quiet life (especially if you’re leaving soon)

Install it, be very obliging.
Then install a Faraday cage in the van.
Buy a burner phone and use this for emergency calls, texts if necessary

Why don’t you want to have this app? Also, what is it used for?

I used to be like this in my last job whenever there was anything compulsory. It was because I didn’t really like my job. I lett and now I’m happier. Just install the app or maybe just find a company that doesn’t want you to install an app.

I knew you lot were out of touch with reality – I didn’t realise how little so many of you appreciated about zero hours / agency type employment.

A fair comment. I once disabled a tracker on a company vehicle as it was fitted without my consent (a whole other argument).
Nothing was said as:-
1. I’d not agreed to it
2. Our industry was short of qualified people before the current even bigger shortage.

If your phone is used to store or deal with a company’s data then they need to be responsible for securing it. So IF you want to use your own phone, and they agree to it, then they need to secure your phone according to their standards, which is what a lot of these ‘apps’ are about.

If they want you to do something with data that needs a phone, and you don’t want to use your own, they need to give you a work phone.

Many “modern” non permanent staff jobs like Uber, Deliveroo, Just Eat, courier work etc. are entirely dependent on apps running on personal phones so I can see why companies have an expectation that workers will be willing to install them.

I think there are lots of reasons for concern about this including privacy, data usage etc. but I would probably be in the camp of allowing it if the app does not assume control of my device, does not burn too much data and can easily be disabled outside working hours.

Why don’t you want to have this app? Also, what is it used for?

Possibly the questions are in the wrong order there! But without knowing what it’s for and how it works, it’s all a bit speculative.

It might just be the temp agency’s single point of contact for telling people their shifts, payslips, whatever, rather than any location and activity monitoring stuff…

I knew you lot were out of touch with reality – I didn’t realise how little so many of you appreciated about zero hours / agency type employment. No wonder there’s little political momentum to fix it.

I work zero hours and there a snowballs chance in hell an employer app would be installed on my property. A dumb phone would be proffered on request, I keep one for just such eventualities. It’s very old, the battery is on it’s last legs and it will need changing for something else just after I retire at Easter when 3G gets turned off. (I may have given this some thought).

Whilst you are at work and getting paid, you’re obviously where you should be and not hiding, so should be no worries there. Turn it off when you finish work

So if you want to track me then supply a device to do so. I would.no closer install work software on my personal computer than I would my phone.

Odly the company I used to work for went all through this years ago emails to personal address.
Apps on phones,calling you at unreasonable times.
One data leak later and it’s instant dismissal for you if you use your personal device for anything. ( Unless your billy/sally big balls at the top then apparently it’s ok)

Funny how IT systems change when the pressure is on the top level of staff and they get a day with the lawyers being told who would go to court if it went tits up.

Even now my work IT stuff gets put in the dead zone* when I’m home so no contact with the outside world it’s not connecting to my wifi either.

*Kitchen cupboard that gets no 4/5g for some bonkers reason.
Personal phone is just that personal. if I was the OP it would be a new version of the Nokia 3310 for my personal phone and blag it till I left.

Oh and probably get this thread binned off

It’s unreasonable and unlawfull.

I had a standoff with my previous employer as I was basically compelled to use my own PC to connect to the company VPN.
I loudly said in a team meeting…. “what if I forget to disconnect the VPN at the end of my shift and visit a naughty website?”

I was promptly provided with a company laptop, heheh!

Simply give them the option to provide you with a company phone, or a £50 per month pay rise to cover your admin and an additional phone on a contract.

Pick your fights well. This one is pointless.

Big difference between MDM, certificate installs and some crappy App that a computer says yes/no administrator at a temp agency wants you to install to get a job. Most likely it will do nothing and barely function. Worst case, track your location that you can turn off in iOS privacy settings.

Still worried, get a burner. Want to play games with them and worries they will actually try to track you. Install the App onto an iPod touch.

Had a similar thing when I was working for an agency, I resisted too as I’d heard stories of people being tracked etc from other agency workers. I just installed it on an old phone that had no GPS or sim card so that I could show the agency I had it, they never checked the phone actually worked and I never used it. In the few weeks I was with them they never checked I had it again and when I did power that phone back up once it had so many warnings for it being a dangerous app I never touched it again. But then that agency was crap so didn’t stick with them for very long.

I’d suggest a burner phone if you’re worried about it and just want them off your back. Can always use the app via WiFi and not out any personal data on that phone. Something for £20-30 from the marketplace of your choosing should suffice.

I sub contract to a company – a division of a huge French multi-national

I have asset inventory software (with GPS) on one phone and 2 laptops, Microsoft authenticator on my other phone

It helps me do my job. They don’t demand I put it on my own tech, but I don’t really give it a second thought

They have me a secure laptop for accessing the company servers/emails/teams etc and I sometimes use that at home via a VPN

I’m pretty certain Google is grabbing FAR more data than they are

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

They don’t demand I put it on my own tech, but I don’t really give it a second thought

The small but IMHO important detail is the optional component here.
I don’t mean that simply from a theoretical point but whilst it’s optional there is little point doing invasive and questionably illegal tracking etc. or demanding an explanation why you didn’t respond immediately to the notification at 2AM that they wouldn’t do over auditable channels

I’m pretty certain Google is grabbing FAR more data than they are

Google are unlikely to dismiss you or just dock your pay given you don’t work for them…

The line in the sand for me is – is it stipulated in your work contract that you own and provide a smart phone for the use of your employer.

If not they can whistle

Google are unlikely to dismiss you or just dock your pay given you don’t work for them…

Neither are you’re employer if you are where you are supposed to be at a given time 🤷

Neither are you’re employer if you are where you are supposed to be at a given time

The OP isn’t working for a division of a huge French multi-national

My previous employer used to book meetings that were impossible to do and wasn’t interested how you got from A to B just that you were at meeting A at a certain time and at meeting B at another.

The clients (for example a global French multinational) would not allow their employees to even be subjected to this hence why the contract employees got it. I can remember at least 2 occasions the client HSSE has stepped in because my company were stupid enough it was the same client and someone noticed you’d need to drive at a steady 90mph and run every red light or “attend a meeting” whilst driving etc.

I’ve also had the opposite and been told to turn off my work phone when in a war zone and use my personal phone as they don’t want any record of you being sent into the war zone in case you get shot or blown up.

I previously worked as staff for 2 French global multinationals and there is no way on earth they’d do this… nor “real” companies but the OP isn’t working for one of them.

This can be done right. Android now has a ‘work profile’ which is a segregated virtual phone (almost) that you use for well, work stuff, and it has different settings, permissions, apps and data. I don’t know if it has to be configured by your work though or if you can simply set it up yourself. If the latter, you don’t really need a second phone.

I more surprised (and shocked) that people don’t have MFA apps already installed on their phones – your work asking you to add an account should be no big deal, as everyone should already have multiple MFA accounts already set up.

If you don’t have MFA on at least your email account, seriously, do it now!

I’m on about 15 MFA accounts on my phone across 2x MFA apps.

Neither are you’re employer if you are where you are supposed to be at a given time 🤷

You seem to be under the impression that employees are constantly on the lookout for ways to shaft their employers whilst employers treat their employees with nothing but respect and would never dream of shafting them in any way shape or form.

It sounds like we should all be working for French companies if that’s how you think all workplaces (especially UK ones) operate.

Brucewee

It sounds like we should all be working for French companies if that’s how you think all workplaces (especially UK ones) operate.

TBH I think its more about the types of company (though France does have a lot of employee focused policy/laws)
I’ve had UK based “real” employers that wouldn’t even dream of doing stuff to their own employees not take an interest in how their contractors are treated by their “employer” whereas others are 3 monkeys covering their eyes and ears.

Not UK based but I’ve worked with Maersk who made specific policies that contractors have to be treated as part of the company. They even had a load of mugs printed with something like “contractors are part of our family” on them and they actually audit it. I had a UK based manager intervene on a meeting I was supposed to do whilst driving for example.

As an update, I received notification that I’m being transferred from the agency to ‘permanent’. I’ve installed the app but pretty well disabled every function) Interesting debate on attitudes to employment and the generally rubbish nature of zero hours contracts – deliberate policy of not having written job offers and terms, one way communication (I can’t text or email my ‘employer’ so have no written record of conversations)