Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 64 total)
  • Emigration options post Brexit
  • roger_mellie
    Full Member

    Yeah, I know, shoulda thought about this earlier, but any hot destination tips in this brave new world?
    I fancy a bit, sorry, a lot more space between me and my neighbour, more sunshine would be nice and a not impossible language would be useful.
    I MAY be able to convince my employer to let me work very remotely.
    I’ve been looking into Spain – might be be able to wangle a ‘non-lucrative visa’, but a bit shaky. Brother in law has a business in Spain which I could potentially invest a small amount of £ in, but I haven’t looked into whether this would gain us entry.
    Considered Gibraltar briefly as a stepping stone, but it’s quite crowded and rental property is relatively pricey.
    Mrs Mellie has already ruled out a return to Scotland (boo) and also ruled out Ireland.
    We have a UK house we could sell or rent out.
    Anyone else having or had similar moon on a stick thoughts?

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    Regularly. Northern Spain or Portugal for me as I would want hills and ocean coast. Language (I am fantastically stupid with language including English!) and young kids stop it.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    Australia if you want some warm weather without the hassle of trying to learn another language.

    Yes, it’s in the other part of the world but that place is huge! Huge!

    handybar
    Free Member

    Well don’t sell the UK house, rent it out as you may want to return some day.
    If working remotely, you need to check out the tax implications, otherwise your employer or you or both could end up paying tax in two different countries.
    Also unless you have an Irish passport living in an EU country has suddenly become more of an admin burden to say the least.
    I’d go for Canada, Australia or New Zealand. NZ would be top for a Scotsman.

    devash
    Free Member

    We moved to central Spain (Madrid) in October 2019, just in time to beat the Brexit deadline and get all my papers in order. My wife is Spanish so that also made it a bit easier.

    Was it a great move? For my wife, yes. She managed to land a really great job in her field with a 25% pay rise compared to her role back in the UK.

    For me, it’s not been such a great move. The job market here is awful, regardless of whether you speak Spanish fluently or not. IT, software development, and tech seem to be the only industries where jobs are plentiful so if any of these are your line of work, then Spain would be a great place to find work. I’ve gone from a £30,000 a year retail management role to barely scraping £9k a year teaching English., which is just about the only line of work here that’s easy to find a position as a Brit (albeit minimum wage and crappy hours).

    Grass isn’t always greener yada yada yada, but its warm and sunny most days spring through to autumn so I get to ride my bike a heck of a lot more. In hindsight though, it hasn’t worked out that well.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Unless you have a skill in short supply and / or a lot of money it will be difficult now. Nerthalnds for example require you to be a property owner there or to have a job that cannot be done by an EU member citizen IIRC. Aus and NZ are very restrictive

    p7eaven
    Free Member

    Anyone else having or had similar moon on a stick thoughts?

    Every day, but with ageing and ailing parents on both sides (both in the UK) we’re pretty much stuck in Blighted now since Brexshit. Would have been maybe possible to live and work a ferry/Eurotunnel trip away but (see Netherlands requirements as per above) my EU Citizenship seems to have disappeared.

    #noregretsyesregrets

    handybar
    Free Member

    My plan is to move to Croatia for a while, Im lucky in that I have an irish passport through parents. But I’m going to do a short-term trial first next spring.
    I still need to sort out the tax implications of working remotely over the longer term for a UK based company.
    It’s a fuzzy area that a lot of people were ignoring esp in places like Spain but the authorities will clamp down esp on non-Eu citizens going forward.
    The main reason I finally bought a place in the UK was so I could have a place to return to in the future as I know lots of “Brexpats” who now can’t afford to move back.

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    .

    LAT
    Full Member

    NZ or Canada.

    in canada you’ll need quite a bit of money or be prepared to live somewhere challenging to have lots of space between you and your neighbours. probably the same in NZ.

    nowhere (that i know of) that is easy to live in is cheap to live in (making it less easy to live in). by easy i mean easy proximity to a variety of employers, choice of schools for your kids and weather that isn’t too extreme.

    an issue moving from the uk is the type of work that you do and if it is the kind of job that is abundant and pays well in a place with abundant space.

    if you want to drive a digger in a mine, there are prospects for the life you’re looking for. if you want to be an IT manager or financial advisor, you’ll need to live where the work is and those places, unless you get lucky, are busy and expensive.

    if you hope to work remotely for a uk employer you’ll become instantly less attractive to foreign a government. countries that let people in do so because they want their country to grow.

    the place to start is with the immigration forms and rules, job adverts and real estate listings. gather together the forms for the places that you fancy living and start filling them in, work out if you can get in and apply for jobs.

    i’ve just moved to BC Lower Mainland. it’s like living in the SE of England in terms of population and living space. however, pretty much everything else about it is better. apart from supermarkets. the best supermarkets in the world are in the UK.

    bigrich
    Full Member

    regional Australia. not the outback but smaller cities (towns, really) 1-200k outside the capital cities. cheap houses and decent jobs.

    woolongong, newcastle, geelong, bendigo. that type of place.

    I’m building a beach house near the ocean in Victoria to move to. Long way from an estate in Birmingham.

    antennae
    Full Member

    Frustrating how different this conversation would have been in 2015. Just pack up your stuff and move to Amsterdam, Helsinki, Lisbon, Chamonix or whenever you like in the EU and start living there… 😭

    Happy NZ migrant here.

    Endless amazing trails and outdoor adventures, 5 million people in an area bigger than the UK, competent non-populist government and basically no pandemic inside the borders (26 deaths total, life as normal for most of the last 18 months).

    Things to be aware of are: high housing costs (+general cost of living) combined with low wage economy. Difficulty in getting a visa unless you’ve got a good sponsored job or relationship/family ties. And it felt a long way away before Covid and I have to admit it feels a really long way from ageing UK parents now.

    33tango
    Free Member

    Moved to Scandinavia almost 13 years. Slowly heading partly back due to aging Parents/homesickness etc. I’ll never move fully back due to family commitments and I do like a lot about living here. I can see it being a, hopefully, 60/40 split.
    Relocation is easier before kids come along. I wouldn’t sell any property either at least for the first 5 years
    Overall, in really glad i did. It’s broadens the mind and horizons.

    handybar
    Free Member

    I lived in the EU before brexit but only as a student. The employment situation even then would have been very hard – my university scholarship was as much money as my Italian gf’s brother was earning in Italy as a well trained engineer.
    Remote working/WFH will open up a lot of opportunity for the “digital nomad” esp as said above in countries that want new influxes of people and are willing to change their tax systems to do so.
    Before that the main ways of being an expat were retiring on a pension, selling the UK home, or opening a BnB.
    Croatia are trialling a digital nomad visa along with Estonia, it will be interesting to see if other countries follow suit. As mentioned, NZ, Oz and Canada are no cheaper than the UK in terms of housing. I wish I bought a place in Croatia years ago when it was dirt cheap, if you go inland you can still get some bargains but the coasts are all very expensive now.

    kilo
    Full Member

    My best mate is a junior / middle level civil servant, he has spent lockdown in Barbados. They had some visa scheme he saw so he got agreement to wfh and just moved over there for a year. He’s renting a place out there with his Mrs and her grown up daughter.

    roger_mellie
    Full Member

    Lots of interesting and useful perspectives, thanks all. (Particularly the self-build beach house in Victoria!)

    We won’t sell the UK house.  Lots to investigate.  I will start sounding out my employer about remote working, (it may be a non-starter) and there may be openings overseas with them (although I suspect many vacancies are filled by nationals of the host country as priority).

    Cheers

    Clover
    Full Member

    I am a niche consultant in novel mobility techn and have started to build up a client base in Europe. Planning to move to France (compromise with other half) and keep working for a mixture of clients. I am half German (with passport) so it’s easier, however, this strategy might work for a visa-based relocation (there are various options for different industries and people prepared to in invest, although amounts and rules vary by country).

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    Frustrating how different this conversation would have been in 2015. Just pack up your stuff and move to Amsterdam, Helsinki, Lisbon, Chamonix or whenever you like in the EU and start living there… 😭

    This, this and this again. I have relatives living in Germany, Sardinia, Central Italy and France. All been living there since before Brexit and that wonderful option has now has door slammed shut in most cases.

    I can get an Irish passport but my wife cannot so little help.

    RustyNissanPrairie
    Full Member

    My bro lives in Oz, moved 13years ago so before Brexit hassles – would never come back.
    Sister in law had enough of UK, moving to France on Irish passport.

    batfink
    Full Member

    Happy to answer any questions you have about moving to Australia – been here 10 years.

    Currently in lockdown….. but otherwise excellent 🙂

    konagirl
    Free Member

    With my grumpy hat on, just remember it’s a very colonial attitude, the expectation that other countries of the world should accept us as immigrants (both the autocratic system and your community once you get there). We (the UK Government and many of its citizens) don’t afford that courtesy to many human beings.

    Really the first thing to work out is visa and tax issues. If you can get a visa to work somewhere or work from there, either by skills or investment, and where your tax residency (or dual residency) would be and the cost of that. That is individual based on your circumstances and skills.

    Then there is the consideration of being away from the UK making it (in some circumstance) harder to see family and friends, and consideration of starting again making friends probably in a foreign language.

    If you move somewhere that is more affordable, you may find yourself unable to move back to the UK if you ever wanted to. Depending how long term you envisage your emigration, you then also need to look at the implications for pensions and healthcare, once you don’t have work income. I knew an ex-colleague that moved to Australia but damaged his back – his healthcare didn’t cover injury or illness acquired in the first six months after arrival (a probation period) and the NHS doesn’t give free healthcare if you aren’t UK resident. I know someone (vet, on skills visa) who has moved permanently to New Zealand recently and who knows she probably won’t see family now for a number of years.

    I moved to Tasmania, Australia for 2 years with a work visa (sponsored) and would have stayed out there for a bit longer if my partner could have found work that he wanted to do. I toy with the idea of an investment visa to South Africa if I won the lottery. But in reality, we will probably move to a rural location in mid-Wales or Scotland or northern England to a place big enough to grow some veg and have no immediate neighbours. It’s not an easy decision financially or emotionally so all you can really do is work out where you think you might fit in and then work out if you can make the practicalities (visa, taxes, language) work.

    cakeandcheese
    Full Member

    Currently living in Aus (NSW).

    Travel restrictions are a ball ache. Winter is worse than I’d expected (cold and dark). Lots of parochialism. Houses in Sydney are insanely expensive.

    Lifestyle is good though. As is the food, wine, public transport and nature. The smell of jasmin in spring, sound of kookaburras and rivers and creeks are all ace.

    nbt
    Full Member

    Would love to move to france (ideally Tarentaise valley). Mrs NBT less keen on the idea 🙁

    konagirl
    Free Member

    “We won’t sell the UK house. ”
    Just account for the tax implications of being a non-domiciled property owner, implications if still mortgaged, and the Capital Gains Tax if/when you do come to sell. (and if you don’t rent you still pay Council Tax).

    “I will start sounding out my employer about remote working”
    This may be the non-starter. My partner works from home in the UK employed by the UK branch of the business, but working with colleagues mostly in Czech Republic (also Italy, Germany, Slovakia). They unequivocally said no to WfH in any other country even for a 1-week period at a time, for both tax and insurance reasons. My employer (a University) had many staff and students stuck overseas at times during the last 18 months and they are very unhappy about it! They have had to put special protocols in place for people who were genuinely stuck and they will not officially allow us to work abroad unless travelling for business (field work or conferences).

    willard
    Full Member

    Sweden (or Finland, possibly Norway).

    You can have space and more and yet there are still employment opportunities. Property in the cities is expensive, but cheaper once you start leaving the “Magic circle” around Stockholm. Food is better quality, alcohol is more expensive, sports are bigger and more on peoples’ minds and vary by the season.

    Healthcare is free* too, as is education and, as I keep getting told, education at state level is generally excellent because, for some odd reason, the state wants to have an educated population.

    Yes, winters are cold and dark, yes things are [more] expensive. Yes, the language is a little complex, but the majority of people here speak English and appreciate the effort if you attempt to speak Swedish to them first.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Two sets of friends have got their Carte de Sejour in France post Brexit, so the door isn’t closed, it’s just a bit more hassle if you want to move.

    roger_mellie
    Full Member

    With my grumpy hat on

    Feel free – I appreciate ‘warts-and-all’ comments too.

    batfink – I may do so when I’ve done some more investigating, thanks.

    brads
    Free Member

    I’d love to move to the US but the money involved has went through the roof recently.

    No easy way to move there that I can find.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    It’s not an easy decision financially or emotionally so all you can really do is work out where you think you might fit in

    Good post and that’s the crux of it.

    Home is where your heart is, where your mates are, sharing the things you all enjoy doing.

    reluctantlondoner
    Full Member

    Some good advice here.

    I’ve lived in other countries and have a second citizenship. I am currently in the UK, but with a 7 year plan to leave.

    There are a couple of things to be laser focused on:

    * why you want to emigrate. As others point out the grass is different, not necessarily greener.
    * what are you running away from? Or do you have a clear enough vision and use case that you are going towards something.
    * running away is appealing but will bite you in the arse, because you can’t run away from yourself. If you have “issues” deal with them before you go
    * look towards retirement and eventual infirmity. Build your community now so that if/when you need it, it’s there for you.

    finephilly
    Free Member

    Moving to the EU from Uk is still possible, you just need a visa!

    I was looking at France, being a self employed estate agent as buying/selling houses in France is different to the UK – a lot of agents are self-employed and they have the power to sell your house (a mandate). The fees are typically higher too, so it stacks up financially. The caveat is you need to be professionally trained, but there is a market for English-speaking agents.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    My mates son went to NZ in January 2020 but got trapped there due to Covid. Not sure what visa he was on but he got a job on a farm driving 360 diggers. He loves it so much he’s doing his utmost to stay there.
    An ex colleague lives on Crete, he’s currently back in Leeds just to get cooled off, another 2 live in southern Spain & are spending most days indoors with the A/C going flat out.
    be careful what you wish for ! 🙂

    Edukator
    Free Member

    The fees are typically higher too, so it stacks up financially.

    Until they’re haggled down. Unles you’re planning on selling exclusively to naive Brits you’ll be in a highly competitive field. It’s been booming recently thanks to .5% interest rates and a Covid exodus from the cities but that won’t last.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    the best supermarkets in the world are in the UK.

    I agree with this ^^^

    If I were to move to one of the EU nation I would probably choose one of the country from Scandinavia. Since all EU countries are colder than my hometown I thought I might as well freeze by nuts off to colder areas if I were to move. I can move back to my hometown but I doubt I want to as it’s a political dump zombie maggot state now.

    For whatever reasons I got stuck in UK (legally) as I started to get busy earning to survive, then I forgot about time. One day I woke up and it was already more than 20 years later … Dammit!

    I could have moved to NZ or Scandinavia permanently but somehow UK kept calling me back, being a lazy person and being comfortable with the UK system etc, I decided to give it a try. Mistake? Don’t know. I don’t have the time to think but carry on living …

    Anyway, one important thing about emigrating to another country is about liking the culture there otherwise you will suffer. Will not last and get homesick.

    My motto is simple. If I can earn a happy living there I will live and die there. My body does not need to return to my hometown but may as well fertilise the ground where I am happy. Unless I move now in that case you will not benefit from my fertiliser. LOL!

    If you are not happy where you are then go search for the place of happiness. I did (legally) and I come from North Borneo!

    Oh ya … you need to find a country where you can earn a happy rather than stressful living. No good exchanging one stress for another. The body clock is ticking and nothing is perfect.

    roger_mellie
    Full Member

    Wise words, cheers 👍

    bigjim
    Full Member

    I moved to Denmark for a job, being a small country they need experienced specialists to come in from abroad for some things, luckily I came before brexit and for those who were here before they are for now at least continuing to honour the residency conditions as they were and I have a nice EU residence certificate. I think having a job to go to makes it a lot easier than just trying to pitch up and figure it out. Coming from Scotland the weather is amazing, it’s been dry and 20 ish for months which is perfect for me, the language is pretty impossible but we speak english at work, I’m someone happy living in my own little world so I love it though I missed my network of pals during lockdown a bit. Before covid travel home was as easy as coming from the south of england. If there were mountains I would never want to leave.

    Wish I’d left the UK in my 20s and worked around europe, the freedom of movement and opportunity for different experiences is amazing. Saw a role recently in my field which was remote working from UK, Spain or France which gave my dream of living in the Alps a little stoking, maybe one benefit of covid will be increased opportunities like that.

    walleater
    Full Member

    If you are a ‘Holistic Lifestyle Yoga Coach’ or social media influencer then come to Squamish BC. You’ll fit right in! Extra points if mummy and daddy give you $100,000 for a down payment on a house, and then rent it out at a price that destroys the local labour market.

    In all seriousness, you might love it around here. The instagram page trail_clones is worth a look as it takes the pish out of the ‘cool’ local MTB scene pretty well.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    I still need to sort out the tax implications of working remotely over the longer term for a UK based company.
    It’s a fuzzy area that a lot of people were ignoring esp in places like Spain but the authorities will clamp down esp on non-Eu citizens going forward.

    It’s not fuzzy tbh if your in Spain over x days your liable for tax.

    The remote part also makes no difference for them, your working in Spain and a none-lucrative visa is a no-no.(although it keeps being mentioned)

    I’m under the Brexit Withdrawl Agreement so can legally work here anyway.

    I was amazed with the tax bit as I’m employed by a U.K. company and all I did was do an online p85 and tbh there’s not much to fill in,within 4 days my tax code was changed to NT so no U.K. tax gets deducted.(still pay NI)

    Company payroll contacted me to ask when I’d started working in Spain as my tax code had changed and then the on next payslip I had a tax refund till the beginning of the U.K. tax year.

    There’s a tax agreement between Spain and the U.K. so you cannot be taxed twice.

    I have a Spanish tax person to do the tax return as it’s not a PAYE system here and you have to do a tax return each June/July’ish.
    (Tax is higher so you could be paying more, there is an online calculator somewhere which will give you an idea.)

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Spain are planning a digital nomad visa thou.

    Spanish legislators have introduced a draft bill that would create a special visa for international digital nomads.

    The “Startups Law,” which was published by the Spanish government on July 6, would also offer personal income tax reductions for non-resident remote workers and tax incentives for startup companies and investors.

    Supporters of the legislation hope it will encourage more foreign digital nomads and entrepreneurs to establish business operations in Spain.

    Under the proposed law, foreign remote workers could obtain a special visa that allows them to live and work in Spain for up to 12 months. Workers who wish to stay longer can extend their visa for an additional 24 months.

    Not as good as you had it in the EU days 🙁

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Before that the main ways of being an expat were retiring on a pension, selling the UK home, or opening a BnB.

    I keep banging on about what the new season of ‘home in the sun’ is going to entail, rich pensioners and young Software developers 🙂

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