Over the last year we have been trying to recruit a new hardware and software engineer without much success. We have used recruitment consultants who send some nice CV’s but the people seem to fail at the interview tasks.

We aren’t talking anything complicated here, Electronics Engineers who can’t recognise opamp based non inverting amplifiers and firmware engineers who don’t know what a union is amongst others.

My ideal hardware person would have knowledge of and be able to do:
Analogue and High Speed Digital design
Schematic Capture
Layout
Signal Integrity
DFA / DFM
Low level hardware control software
Supporting of designs through in house production
Getting products through compliance testing

I could also do with a software person who is:
Used to writing low level and app code for Cortex-M0/3/4, Cortex-A8/9, ARM9 to control various peripherals (GPIO, ADC, DAC etc)
Linux Drivers
Linux Apps

Anyone else in a similar line of work had much success recruiting, if so how?

Not involved in embedded but in machine control software, have done a little embedded. Ime people end up in. Very narrow rolls and the only people with the experience you are looking for already work for you!

You need to look for people who you feel can get up to speed in 6 months or so. On the programmer side I would look for some one who has reasonable low level knowledge and is not obsessed with c# or what ever is trendy but more interested in solving the problem

What he said, last time I used a discrete opamp was nearly 20 years ago at uni however if you need a design that has a multigigabit IP packet throughput I might be able to help you out.
In the companies I’ve worked for the firmware, layout, analog and digital parts of the design have been done by different people. We have also got seperate regulatory engineering who manage compliance testing.

Electronics Engineers who can’t recognise opamp based non inverting amplifiers

That’s me, not played with an opamp for 20+ years!

and firmware engineers who don’t know what a union is amongst others

do you really want a Unionised workforce 😉

Recruitment consultants can be a bit rubbish especially when it comes to finding technical skills, although some are better than others.
Surely you have some industry contacts? Try a bit of poaching.
Have you tried using linkedin?
Do you do any networking with IET or other relevant institution/events.

that’s quite a wide range of skills you’re looking for. I know someone who will take on work on a contract basis, but is very unlikely to consider FT – he’s good enough he can pick and choose!

Try a bit of poaching.

I came here to say egg-xactly this.

Hello, Senior Embedded Software Engineer here, working for a company that specialises in such stuff.

Agree that recruiting can be difficult, especially these days as many younger software guys have never touched low-level stuff or even written in C.

We generally target more experienced guys, often picking them up by word of mouth or when other companies fold. We never accept anyone from recruitment companies!

Graham S that sure is one of the problems, the younger chaps are all a bit too high level. No one with us at the moment has come through an agency. I’ve tried linked in, all the FAE’s that come in etc.

We know of another couple of consultancies that are having a real problem with recruiting too. Thanks for all of the advice above. Thinking about it I guess the large company where you have a department for everything to small consultancy transition is probably a hard one to take as its breadth rather than depth of knowledge that it important for us.

Riddoch and footflaps, on a serious note where do you guys roles start and stop? Do you do a high level design / major component selection and had it off to a schematic chap etc?

As the saying goes “all the good ones are taken”.

Your ideal hardware person sort of feels like three persons one of whom is really a softie another being a six sigma type.

I’d echo what theBrick said about getting up to speed in 6 months.

I run my own custom embedded electronics company and find that these days, students specialise too early, and hence are brilliant at just one of two things, but have no idea of the bigger picture or how things actually work!

When i were a lad, you had to do a basic degree that taught you the, dull, but necessary background. These days, you can do any number of much more fun degrees in specialist subjects, but these can leave typical students and un-experienced people with massive holes in their knowledge ime..

On the upside, a lot of younger guys these days are playing about with Arduinos or other micros in their spare time, so in some ways the basics of embedded software is more accessible than ever.

For the record, I am (or at least was 20 odd years ago) a pure Computer Science honours graduate. My main language was (and still is) C, but I hadn’t really done real low-level embedded stuff till I came to my current job (about 12 years ago). So I agree it is definitely possible to learn.

Having said that, I knew what a union was 😀

Riddoch and footflaps, on a serious note where do you guys roles start and stop? Do you do a high level design / major component selection and had it off to a schematic chap etc?

Electronics is so specialized now… I started as an RF Engineer at Nortel, so op amps were a bit too low in frequency to be of any use, then moved into system design / architecture and stayed there ever since. In a much smaller company now (85 heads in total, 35ish in Engineering). We have a team of HW engineers who do all the low level stuff. Plenty of Embedded HW / SW Engineers in Cambridge though, just they’re not cheap as the competition is fierce e.g. ARM, CSR, etc….

Go to the local uni and talk to the staff there about devising a module so that they can teach what you need to receive 🙂

I am self taught in programming and electronics. I never found anything hard but there is massive amount to learn and you can’t learn it all speculatively, hence why you need the job to give you a chance to get up to speed.

I’ve had a play with most things from gui to ARM start up and but I find when you work somewhere it is easier than working on your own as you have colleges and a code base to take as examples. Writtng and architecture design from scratch is where you really have to be experienced to do a good job. You also have your development environment etc set up which when it starting from scratch can be a massive pain!

Exactly – I don’t have experience with the specific hardware you’re asking for but if you were a bit nearer I’d be sending my CV as I have lots of more general knowledge of that area. The sort of person you’re after ought to be somebody flexible who is capable of porting their skills to a new platform – once you have a general idea of how to do low level embedded stuff it’s mainly just a case of using the manual.

Aracer, ah yes the above is my ideal. We are more than happy to bring people up the curve etc as long as the basics are there with a dollop of enthusiasm. Sadly from the people we have interviewed its the basics that are missing!

Where about in Hampshire is your company based? Could you offer flexible working? people may be put off a little if they do not live in the area and the have to be on site 5 days a week. Moving can be a big hassle and gamble and working away from home 5 days a week gets old very fast. Might open up the pool for you if you allow some working from home.

Over the last year we have been trying to recruit a new hardware and software engineer without much success. We have used recruitment consultants who send some nice CV’s but the people seem to fail at the interview tasks.

Graham S that sure is one of the problems, the younger chaps are all a bit too high level. No one with us at the moment has come through an agency. I’ve tried linked in, all the FAE’s that come in etc.

I guess training is a “dirty” word.

Klunk, training is not a dirty word but you need the basics to start with. A basic knowledge and enthusiasm to learn would be a good starting point

So long as you’re clear what you need – which isn’t somebody with a very specific skill set on particular hardware. I find very specific job adverts frustrating – because if I saw advertised similar to what you specify above I know I could learn the job quickly and do it well, but the chances are I’d fail at the first sift because I don’t have that particular thing on my CV, so probably not worth bothering to apply. Maybe worth trying a less specific ad?

Though I have also sat the other side of the recruitment table and been shocked at how poor some candidates are (there was of course also the chap who clearly knew a lot more than we did – I think he turned down our offer!)

Riddoch and footflaps, on a serious note where do you guys roles start and stop? Do you do a high level design / major component selection and had it off to a schematic chap etc?

Waves at Footflaps, another ex Nortel bod here.
For my curent company (6000 odd in the uk, largely engineering focused) apartment from my division, generally there are engineers that do schematic capture but component engineers who do final component selection, then it’s passed to the layout team.
For my area I do a bit of everything, architecting, component selection, maintaining RoHS evidence, schematic capture, layout, ordering prototypes including knitting out, supporting manufacturing, emc, regulatory testing, design verification testing. FPGA are coded by a dedicated team, low level code the also dedicated people.
To be fair apart from current analog experience I’m not a bad match :-). If you are looking for a contractor I’ve a former colleague that might be a match I think he was looking for something last time I spoke to him, he’s Brighton based.

Xyratex/Seagate shutting up shop in Havant. Engineering team there isn’t what it used to be from earlier cuts but have a look on LinkedIn at who is still there or was there until last couple of years as they might still be local. As above though the skills you seek would typically be spread across 2-3 people in larger companies like this..

As others have said, the two roles you are looking for more realistically fit 3-5 people. Plenty of people are versatile enough to train into the roles, but few will have the exact experience you are after.

Been working as a Firmware/Software engineer for 10yrs or so now. Anything from dabbling in .asm for an 8bit pic, C for 16bit micros, right through to sqlserver scripts, and C#/WPF. So pretty broad skillset, but dont exactly meet any of your requirements.

Realistically, your hardware guy does hardware stuff, your firmware guy does cortex and the hardware guys control code and an experienced linux guy may be able to do both driver and app development.

Similar to what I have on my CV from a firmware perspective – though I’ve also done linux drivers which possibly makes me a rare beast (and helped hardware guys with debugging – I couldn’t fulfil that role, though I know enough about that side to be able to talk to somebody who could) and I like variety, hence wishing it was a bit nearer!

Though as andy says, you won’t find many people who have experience of both parts of the s/w job, hence one reason why you’re struggling.

Waves at Footflaps, another ex Nortel bod here.

Which site?

I was at Harlow from 92-99 IIRC…

Harlow as well but 1999-2004, Passport Voice gateway, worried I can’t remember the building name U or S think

We were in Z1, PU64 Government and External Programs (originally MOD stuff and then more commercial stuff, Satellites, Cellular, Powerline, DSL, mainly early stage R&D etc).