This strikes me as a bad idea…

Electric Car Priority

Surely congestion zones with 0 charge for electrics would have the same effect? Can’t help thinking that it’ll just mean rich people who can afford a second electric car for town use only will benefit while the poorer people with an old petrol banger will suffer.

Green transport yes, but a two-tier road system?

Exempted from one-way systems…that sounds like an interesting idea. 🙂

We already have a tiered road system:

Rich people – cars
Poor people – public transport (buses)
Even poorer people – bikes
Poorest – pedestrians

That’s Capitalism!

Rich people – cars
Poor people – public transport (buses)
Even poorer people – bikes
Poorest – pedestrians

That’s Capitalism!

That’s BS! 🙂

True, most of you lot are riding round on bikes more expensive than most cars!

Also, it’s cheaper to run a car than catch a bus for my commute!

So:

Rich people – Buses and bikes
poor people – cars
poorer people – BSOs (maybe?)
poorest people – pedestrians

Oligarchs, Footballers and Celebrities – RangeRovers
Rich people – Uber, an Audi 4WD or a Mountain Bike hybrid
poor people – Cars
poorer people – BSOs / bikes found in skips
poorest people – have no reason to go anywhere

Lower road tax, free/cheap charging with dedicated parking .. these are the incentives.

Exempt from one way and electric only zones are bonkers

Sadiq Kahn has a consultation out to massively expand congestion charge zone in London. It really is about money making / tax raising.

Was driving in London yesterday and always surprised how many large lorries there are driving around at quite high speeds taking up 1.3 lanes.

I can see a time when cities are “no diesel” Paris definitely considering it

jambalaya – Member

Sadiq Kahn has a consultation out to massively expand congestion charge zone in London. It really is about money making / tax raising.

you say that like taxes are a bad thing, they’re used to pay for all sorts of brilliant things. and the congestion charge is easily avoided…

(especially in a city so blessed with public transport)

It really is about money making / tax raising.

It’s great isn’t it!

Course the side effects of green and active transport are pretty good too!

Win win!

these days

Rich people – lease cars
Poor people – lease cars
Even poorer people – lease cars
Poorest – watch Jeremy Kyle.

maybe 😉

I thought it was about stopping everyone dying from pollution?

you say that like taxes are a bad thing, they’re used to pay for all sorts of brilliant things. and the congestion charge is easily avoided…

+1

Central London is now pretty fantastic. As many cyclists as cars, and half the cars are taxis anyway. Motorised traffic is mostly vans/lorries on business, taxis and rich people’s limos (according to my official stats carefully collected). Cyclists and public trasport users must vastly outnumber drivers.

So go ahead and tell me how bad this is Jam, go on.

Anyway re the OP – rich people don’t care about the congestion zone. They’d care about this though.

I thought it was about stopping everyone dying from pollution?

That’s VED isn’t it?

Or am I getting mixed up with the “Low Emission Zone”?

Or may be they (the various taxes) have multiple roles?

Sadiq Kahn has a consultation out to massively expand congestion charge zone in London. It really is about money making / tax raising.

you say that like is a bad thing

also…

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/15/nearly-9500-people-die-each-year-in-london-because-of-air-pollution-study

cant happen soon enough!

I can see a time when cities are “no diesel”

nor this, cities should be electric only tbh

RE: diesel vans in cities.

I drive a Sprinter as part of my job (56-65 plate ones) and the amount of black soot and crap that they belch out is unbelievable! It’s especially noticeable at this time of year with the low morning sun, you just see the fumes blow over the pavement and into shops etc. I hate driving them in that situation but there’s no real alternative way to get goods in and out of towns when you need a range of 100+ miles and a large load capacity.

I’m waiting for Cardiff to adopt the same Low Emission Zone as London, it’ll make the place so much more pleasant to walk and cycle around without the vans, lorries and taxis poisoning everyone. It’s why I have a petrol car and cycle whenever I can for short journeys and commuting.

Rich people – cars
Poor people – public transport (buses)
Even poorer people – bikes
Poorest – pedestrians

As around 80% of people live in households with a car we are a hugely rich country then?

As for electric cars for clean air zones. The most polluted streets in Glasgow carry very little car traffic due to only bus/taxis being allowed to use them as a through route. It’s belching diesel fumes from buses and taxis that are the problem.

I’d like to see more electric cars in towns than petrol/diesel ones but I don’t think stuff like letting them get away first at lights is going to help, and in practice I just can’t see it working. And that’s before you get to the one way street bit! WTF?

We already have a tiered road system:

Rich people – cars
Poor people – public transport (buses)
Even poorer people – bikes
Poorest – pedestrians

That’s Capitalism!

Its actually:

People who live close to where they work – pedestrians and bikes
People who live close to a transport route that links them the where they work – public transport
People who’ve decided they can get a bigger or nicer house for their money if its at the expense of both those things – cars

Surely it’s more like:

Actual rich people – any old car, probably a classic, or they don’t really care.
People who’d like to project the impression that they’re rich – the latest blingy brand new (must be brand new) SUV on a pay monthly lease.
The rest of us – a combination of car, train, bus, bicycle, walking etc, whatever’s most convenient or cost effective at the time.

Richest guy I’m friends with drives round every day in a 12 year old Renault Clio which he also uses to transport the wife and kids. It’s his only car and as a conservative estimate I’d say he’s worth around 10 million quid. Says it all really.

irc – Member

glesga should just make a ring road and ban cars, barring delivery vehicles, from the city centre. not like it’s big and not walkable.

the germans and danish parliaments have voted for a total ban on all vehicles with greater than zero emissions.. into law on 2025 in denmark and 5 years later in germany.

that means NO cars lorries motorcycles that are using the roads today will be legal..

I increasingly find petrol/derv powered vehicles totally bonkers. I know lots of people will find that a strange statement but if you spend anytime walking down any mildly busy road you realise its an absolute river of polluted acrid air totally poisonous humans.

Theres people live near roads for god sake, its kin madness.

As around 80% of people live in households with a car we are a hugely rich country then?

Yes, as it happens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth#Differences_by_country

How possible would electric busses be for city use?

Already happening in London. No idea how the costs compare but they should at least make sense for routes within congested city centers.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/first-electric-buses-in-central-london-by-end-of-year-as-two-routes-announced-a3341251.html

Electric buses in a city = trams. Would work with traffic-free streets and the odd electric delivery van. Could even automate it!

Would be handy if they sorted out electric motorbike regulations first before worrying about car pipedreams.

Personally I would like to see a wholesale reduction in car use and ownership.

Petrol, diesel and leccy all have associated pollution issues, and are increasingly going to become irrelevant as anything more than status symbols IMO.

As a short term measure, yes I would welcome anything that helps (less polluting) leccy cars replace infernal combustion, both incentives for buying/leasing and improved charging infrastructure.

But longer term I am keen to see private car ownership made less prevalent, I don’t believe cars actually provide a net benefit to society anymore…

The big Car companies have become a bit like the big banks and online businesses, almost considered too big to fail and prone to the sort of ethical and moral ambiguity that goes with worrying more about short term commercial survival than longer term environmental and social sustainability…

Of course this is yet another “London thing” it won’t affect proper people for a while yet…

Sales of electric cars are up 250% yoy and whilst fewer cars of any sort may be the perfect solution a few less of the sort that pump out poison is a step in the right direction.

Maybe – but I can’t help wondering whether the availability of electric cars is delaying modal change, because people are sating their conscience and don’t feel any need to make a further change.

Personally I would like to see a wholesale reduction in car use and ownership.

Of course this is yet another “London thing” it won’t affect proper people for a while yet…

If I lived in London I wouldn’t own a car. Outwith London or a few other city centres the car is by far the best means of quick flexible transport. Anyplace, anytime, and faster door to door than any alternative for journeys under a couple of hundred miles. Good luck persuading people to give them up when the alternatives are either more expensive or nowhere near as good.

Getting to work 18 miles away for a 7am start. Car – 25 minutes. Public transport can’t be done. Bike? fairly heavy gear to carry. No showers or lockers at work. I’d rather have the extra hour in bed.

If we want all these electric transport devices then we’ll need to build more generation capacity. It’ll need to be an on demand supply with no interruptions, I can’t wait.

No,no,no..what we need is faster horses.

Thats all I hear when we talk about better cars, yes there will be people who bikes don’t work for, yes there will be people electric cars don’t work for but there will be a lot who they do and fewer polluting cars is better even if its just 1% next year and the whole thing takes 30 years to change to any substantial degree and a 100 to fix by which time we’ll all be connected like the freakin Borg and no one will go anywhere anyway.

I was at Hopwood Park services yesterday, they have around 8 charging points next to the buildings. 80% charge in 30 mins and close to the food. Win-win

Just a minute…..does this mean that Leeds is going to ban my van ? Nightmare.

Surely another step forward is supporting infrastructure and grant assistance (as we do for cars) for electric assist bikes and electric scooters? Commutes that may put off many (3-10miles, urban) can be done by these things easily.