EDL in Birmingham Today

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  • EDL in Birmingham Today
  • ormondroyd
    Member

    Yunki: The primary school I attended now has 100% Asian children. They do not celebrate any Christian beliefs. They do not celebrate Christmas or Easter.

    From Stag Lane’s website:
    “The highlight of the term, as always, is the Christmas
    show which the staff and children have been working very
    hard towards for the past several months.”


    “100% Asian”? Clearly absolute rubbish.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    in this regard I do feel as if we should be trying to listen to their grievances instead of making the problem worse by sweeping social problems under the carpet.

    Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean submitting to the lies and misinformation they’ve been fed by the media and the rightwing nutjobs for the past 5 years. Like blaming all social ills on imaginary illegal immigrants and hard-working polish plumbers isn’t sweeping it under the carpet?

    ormondroyd
    Member

    Oh, and Ofsted describe the school as outstanding. Sounds like an absolutely wonderful little school, actually.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Still dont agree daz….its not the media its actually living in places that have seen massive demographic changes that causes the racism.

    On the school…..i have my own rambling story….just another reason as to why I feel people need to understand the social issues instead of labelling one side of the issue….at about the age of 9 my primary school went on exchange with a mostly asian school in leicester….the first thing I heard when we sat down in assembly was hearing all the local children whispering about how we were probably racists. You know being country hicks and all that….any I always wondered how they learnt that.

    ormondroyd
    Member

    its actually living in places that have seen massive demographic changes that causes the racism.

    Really? It seems to me that many of the key target seats of the further-right parties are very white, often provincial/rural areas where the only fuel is the media, not reality. I live in a very multicultural, inner-“city” part of Reading, and the BNP and even UKIP barely ever show their face here because they’d get laughed out of town.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    See working class mining towns/divisions in sheffield….walsall…birmingham etc…plenty of skinhead types there….my experience is different.

    You’re talking about low grade “I might vote ukip” types….im talking about the types of people that use the term paki with venom. Eg edl members.

    grum
    Member

    I’ve posted about this before but I think it is possible to have concerns about immigration without being a racist. Sadly though there is often a hell of a lot of crossover between the two, and the amount of myths that get passed around as ‘fact’ is ridiculous.

    That’s what really stifles any attempt at sensible discussion on the issue, not PC gone mad, IMO. In any discussion on the issue never far away from ‘yeah and they banned christmas in Birmingham’ or some other such nonsense.

    – Immigration: some 31 per cent of the population is thought to consist of recent immigrants, when the figure is actually 13 per cent. Even including illegal immigrants, the figure is only about 15 per cent. On the issue of ethnicity, black and Asian people are thought to make up 30 per cent of the population, when the figure is closer to 11 per cent.

    ormondroyd
    Member

    Oh, they’ve come out to play in the working class mining area I grew up in, for sure, despite the fact that there is far less non-white-British makeup to the ethnic split there. They play in areas of reduced economic opportunity, regardless of ethnic division, because it’s so easy to stir up a sense of immigration being the problem.

    Interestingly and on a slight tangent, it’s interesting to see how well UKIP does in deprived seaside areas (e.g. Lowestoft) when about the only thing keeping those places afloat is EU support.

    ormondroyd
    Member

    Most multi-cultural areas are just normal working and middle class areas, getting on just fine, with the added benefit of a bit of interesting cultural diversity.

    There are a handful of places where things have got really polarised, and again that’s something the racist organisations seize upon and turn into a nationwide issue. Like I say, I’ve never seen a single piece of BNP literature in over a decade in West Reading, and I live in (by census measures) one of the three most multicultural wards (out of 16) in an already quite diverse town.

    So my view is that racism is absolutely stirred up by the media and the far right on the basis of exaggeration (the “our towns are turning into single-race ghettos”) and outright falsehood (“my old school is 100% asian, oh, apart from all the white and black kids in its photo, erm”)

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    its not the media its actually living in places that have seen massive demographic changes that causes the racism.

    Sorry. This is b*llox, and another example of lazy thinking. Ormondroyd is right, areas where levels of racism and support for UKIP/EDL/BNP are high are largely very white areas with small immigrant populations. I too live in an area which is very multicultural (the school my kids go to has kids from 20 nationalities), and whilst I wouldn’t describe it as a liberal utopia, I can honestly say that racism is at the bottom of the list in terms of problems which need dealing with.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Well my experience with multiculturalism in london is that the its racial segregation in geographically small areas.

    The eastern europeans work and hang out together, as do the blacks and asians…I’ve heard whites and indians call asians p***s….ive heard asians call blacks “nig****”….ive heard abuse towards whites by blacks…etc..ad nauseum.. they all seem to hate each other. I’m with merkel on multiculturalism….it did not work….and was in fact the lazy way of coping with needed and beneficial immigration.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Tom_W1987 – Member

    For balance though, I am living in a part of london where I am often blanked because I’m white

    Do you ask them “scuse me, why did you blank me?” Not being funny but I’ve lived in a few places where no bugger talks to anyone else or where new people get ignored. Seems to be modern life (the only friendly people in leith are either polish or begging 😉 )

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    You can just tell, along with the evils if you walk into the wrong shop/street/have a girlfriend on your arms who must be a gold digging whore because shes going out with a white guy.

    ormondroyd
    Member

    I’m with merkel on multiculturalism….it did not work.

    *looks out of window*

    Well, nothing’s on fire here.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Do you ask them “scuse me, why did you blank me?” Not being funny but I’ve lived in a few places where no bugger talks to anyone else or where new people get ignored.

    This is exactly it. Mrs Daz is active in the PTA at our kids school, and when she asked the other white middle class mums why none of the asian parents are involved, the answer was, ‘well no one has ever asked them and they’ve never seemed interested’. Then after Mrs Daz went and introduced herself to all the asian parents and got talking to them, they said, ‘well no one has ever asked us to take part in the PTA’. Now the PTA has doubled in size and half the parents in it are asian, and they’re extremely active in fundraising and putting on events which is all to the greater benefit of the school. It’s nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with breaking down personal and social barriers.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    There is some of that but it doesn’t account for all of the divisions, social barriers have nothing to do with out right ignoring people or giving them evils. At the end of the day many of the different ethnic groups have deep rooted beliefs about other ethnic groups and it shows in who they work with and where they live.

    (Eg there is an industrial site near me with loads of auto shops….you’ll go past one…it will be full of eastern europeans….you go past the next….it will be full of black guys….then the next one will be full of Asians)….then the kebab shops will have one group or the other hanging out there at lunchtime.

    I’d regard the Americans as more of an integrated melting pot than us and you only have to look at the LA riots to see how different ethnic groups…under the surface…hated each other. I don’t think we are fairing any better than them, these issues and feelings are just whispered about instead of being dealt with in the open.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Not that I condone the edl but I can now partly understand why the working classes are falling into the laps of the edl, bnp and ukip.

    Unfortunately so can I. They are being manipulated and led by groups like the EDL who portray everyday situations in a twisted and perverse manner.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Sorry, I just don’t feel it is as simple as the media or the EDL causing the problems…supply and demand etc….there is something that stinks at the root of how we are all living together that needs to be dealt with.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Must say I didn’t see this going on for 8 pages…

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Yes, and no one is pretending racism doesn’t exist. But if you believe the rightwingers who are peddling this rubbish you’d be forgiven for thinking that Britain is on the brink of some sort of race-war in our inner cities when it quite obviously isn’t. The trouble is that the more people who repeat these lies second-hand, the more it becomes ingrained in the popular psyche and it becomes self-perpetuating. The real social problems in this country around multiculturalism, race, ethnicity etc are not caused by immigration, but by rightwing scaremongerers who are whipping up false hysteria and creating divisions where previously they didn’t exist.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    No that’s just one problem, I think there is also a problem with the very idea of multiculturalism or at least the application of/policies surrounding multiculturalism in this country. Multiculturalism is an excuse for racial segregation imo.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Integration takes time…

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    Still don’t see a lot of the Indian community being included as much as they could….I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America….where the black community still hasn’t been integrated properly…for how long now? Where poor deprived localities = for black people – Rich areas = for white people….just in this case it can be swept under the carpet in the guise of multiculturalism instead of plain old racism like in the states.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Multiculturalism is an excuse for racial segregation imo.

    It’s not segregation, it’s people naturally choosing to live among others who share a similar culture and values. You can’t force someone to abandon their identity, even if they have come to live in ‘your’ country.

    When I go to the pub to watch football, I tend to meet up with a load of geordies who support the same team. Is this segregation? Obviously I should integrate with the local community and support one of the Manchester teams?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    No but it then goes on to foster segregation and bad attitudes between communities, choosing to live with other people like yourself because you feel safer is in itself just another consequence of your own racism as well.

    Comparing football with communities living together on a day to day basis is laughable.

    Junkyard
    Member

    .I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America….where the black community still hasn’t been integrated properly…for how long now?

    You are comparing multiculturalism to the treatment of a race who were slaves in that country and only recently got the end to segregation and are still the victims of open racism….WOW what a poor choice and strange comparison.

    As for America you seem very confused as to whether it s a good example or a bad example

    I’d regard the Americans as more of an integrated melting pot than us ….[next post]I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    choosing to live with other people like yourself because you feel safer is in itself just another consequence of racism as well.

    Now you’re being silly. You really expect a pakistani to go and live in a white estate rather than an area with other pakistanis where they might have friends, family or other social connections?

    grum
    Member

    Still don’t see a lot of the Indian community being included as much as they could….I just see multiculturalism creating the same kinds of rifts that you see in America….where the black community still hasn’t been integrated properly…for how long now?

    On the whole people of Indian heritage seem to be quite well integrated in this country. People from Pakistani origins less so IMNVWIO (I just made that up 🙂 ). Or did you mean Indians as in everyone from the Indian sub-continent?

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    As for America you seem very confused as to whether it s a good example or a bad example

    It’s both bad and good, good because they have a better idea of how immigration should work. (American first, wherever you came from second). Bad in that they still haven’t solved the huge scar left by slavery.

    Now you’re being silly. You really expect a pakistani to go and live in a white estate rather than an area with other pakistanis where they might have friends, family or other social connections?

    Yes, if I move to Japan I don’t expect to live in an area full of Brits and then complain when the Japanese are irritated that I have not taken them time to integrate myself with their culture. My actions would foster more racism on their part.

    Or did you mean Indians as in everyone from the Indian sub-continent?

    No.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Like everything else, it’s not black and white… At one end of the scale, you’ve got monocultures, not desirable. At the other, you can have that voluntary segregation thing, also not desirable. But multiculturalism covers the whole grey area inbetween which is where the good stuff is.

    “voluntary segregation” isn’t comparable with mandatory IMO.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    You are comparing multiculturalism to the treatment of a race who were slaves in that country and only recently got the end to segregation and are still the victims of open racism….WOW what a poor choice and strange comparison.

    I’m going to take this as a failure to read properly before you typed angrily, I didn’t say the cause was the same I said the end point was.

    “voluntary segregation” isn’t comparable with mandatory IMO.

    It creates the exact same misunderstandings and divisions within society if those “voluntary” segregations produce exactly the same socioeconomic divisions.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    It’s amazing though how given time and money most immigrants move out of enclaves – if they even moved into them in the first place…

    Junkyard
    Member

    Oh incoherent and patronising – this seems like a familiar sales pitch to avoid defending your contradiction

    I didn’t say the cause was the same I said the end point was.
    WOW accuses me of not reading then does that Oh the ironing – [ I suspect I need to explain this ] I said you were comparing them and behold your denial explains how you compared them …AWESOME
    SO we agree you are comparing them 🙄

    I think next you pretend you dont understand my point and suggest I am an idiot? You do this because you missed the next stage which would be to accuse me of being angry or emotive but you have done that with the patronising move

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Yes, if I move to Japan I don’t expect to live in an area full of Brits and then complain when the Japanese are irritated that I have not taken them time to integrate myself with their culture. My actions would foster more racism on their part.

    I’ll repeat what I’ve already said. You can’t force someone to abandon their identity, or live, work or associate with people of a particular group. You seem rather confused in that you oppose segregation but apparently you think it’s ok to force people to live in particular places against their will? Do you not see the inherent conflict there? Do you really want to live in a country which has a Stalinist policy of forcing people to live, work, socialise and behave in a particular place and in a particlular fashion?

    Premier Icon bails
    Subscriber

    You can just tell, along with the evils if you walk into the wrong shop/street/have a girlfriend on your arms who must be a gold digging whore because shes going out with a white guy.

    Maybe I’ve just chosen the ‘right’ shops but I (as a non-Asian) have been into lots of Asian shops for curry ingredients and never noticed this. In fact a few of them were staffed almost entirely by eastern Europeans! I also coped just fine when I needed a haircut in a hurry and ended up in a Jamaican barbershop.

    Would it be mad to suggest that some of it might be in your head? And “multiculturalism doesn’t work because a black looked at me funny” is clutching at straws a bit.

    I have been told “no offence, it’s just that I was brought up not to trust people like you” though. Which was nice.

    And given some of the other posts I’m happy to report that despite being different colours my parents live in the same (happily mixed) neighbourhood, in the same house actually, as unbelievable as that might be.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    When I see the passion Ian Wright shows watching an England match I would like the EDL people to explain to me how he is not English.

    Junkyard
    Member

    my parents live in the same (happily mixed) neighbourhood, in the same house actually, as unbelievable as that might be.

    Yes but do they actually get on with each other 😉

    Raouligan
    Member

    I live in East London, and there’s certainly groupings of migrants, but that’s just common sense in that it means people can speak their own language and have access to goods that they want.
    Certainly no blanking in the street no harassment and no racism that I ever see, just a nice vibrant culture with the ability to get excellent food and meet great people.
    Every business I use seems to be delighted to see me regardless of the ethnicity of the staff/owner, it’s brilliant.

    gordimhor
    Member

    Is there any objective evidence that the appalling EDl is a ‘working’ class phenomenon. I ask because I believe that prejudice is present throughout all classes.
    Further to that we are failed by the politicians as an example the only parties that bothered to canvas my old neighbourhood a poor part of Falkirk. . . BNP and the tories Shame on all the rest.

    5thElefant
    Member

    Is there any objective evidence that the appalling EDl is a ‘working’ class phenomenon.

    😆

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