ernie i may be missing your point but you seem to be suggesting that government rather than corporate greed is responsible for increased fuel prices

And as far as how much the heating payment has gone up under New Labour, I think we need to see how much gas and electricity prices have gone up under New Labour first. It is substantially above the rate of inflation – about three times more than IR at the last count I

OK, since no one can provide any evidence to suggest otherwise, I'll reassert my claim that it is substantially above the rate of inflation. And I therefore think we need to see how much gas and electricity prices have gone up under New Labour

ernie i may be missing your point……

Yup, you're missing the point.

I didn't make any claims concerning who is responsible for increased fuel prices.

If you read my posts you'll see that I was suggesting that, before we can lavish praise on New Labour for their generous winter fuel payments to the worst paid pensioners in Europe, we should see how much gas and electricity has gone up by since they have been in power.

I did not in any way claim that New Labour were responsible for the fuel increases, but they are definitely responsible for the winter fuel payments.

Of course now that you've mentioned it however, I am more than happy to hold New Labour responsible for cost of gas and electricity. Because I hold them responsible for not bringing the utilities under democratic control and leaving them in the hands of the free market to satisfy profit, rather than people's needs. Gas for example, was much cheaper for the domestic consumer before prices were deliberately pushed up massively by the government in preparation for privatisation.

Getting back to my point, any increase in winter fuel payments, has to be seen in the context of any increase in fuel costs, otherwise it is meaningless.

And I am not alone is saying so. Help the Aged, which like lazlo53, cares deeply about old people staying warm in winter, and they have said the following :

"Mervyn Kohler, spokesman for Help the Aged, said it was "a badge of shame" that Alistair Darling had not taken more decisive action to combat the evils of fuel poverty. He said the one-off increase in the Winter Fuel Payment was nothing more than a "sticking plaster" that would fail to help pensioners in the long term. "Older people need far more than gestures while energy prices spiral ever upwards," said Mr Kohler. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pensioners-winter-fuel-allowance-raised-by-16350-to-163250-794962.html

"inter fuel allowance for pensioners aged over 60 was raised by £50 to £250 but the increase was dismissed as a "pittance" by Help the Aged.

Pensioners over 80 will get an extra £100 on their current fuel allowance, raising it to £400. But the charity argued it was not enough to meet the 15 per cent rise in prices by the fuel companies, who escaped a windfall profits tax."

ok mea culpa i missed your first post somehow and thought you were criticizing labour v other major parties
not new labour v the missed opportunity for radical social democratic change 😳

i'm down with that