Home Forums Chat Forum Economic Growth?*

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  • Economic Growth?*
  • binners
    Full Member

    310 million quid is a bargain for a swimming pool. Its got a diving board and everyfink

    oldgit
    Free Member

    I’m witnessing a ‘private economy’ around here. Small businesses talking to each other, trying to avoid the taxman. Lots of properties being developed and bought with cash.
    It’s a real sense of feeling hard done by, they blame government and the banks whom they feel are looking after number one. So they’re now doing the same.
    Sounds stupid, but if lots of million plus businesses are doing here how many are doing it up and down the country. And what effect is it having on the economy?

    mcboo
    Free Member

    Ah so his latest ban has run its course. Volume at 11 as per…..

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    You are of course free to enter into debate with people on here, McBoo, and challenge them if you disagree.

    Freedom of Speech and all that. :wink:

    Out of interest in the actual ‘legacy for local people’ thing, I looked into the reality of just how accessible a venue like the velodrome will be. Apparently, you will need to be a member of an affiliated cycle club to be able to use the facilities, and this will undoubtedly cost money. So, not just a ‘turn up and ride for a few quid’ type deal. I’m hoping there will be taster sessions like at Manchester, but I’m not holding my breath. So, it seems it will actually be quite difficult in fact to use the venues, and undoubtedly very expensive.

    And it’s just a velodrome/bunch of sports facilities (most of which will actually disappear after the Lympics is over). What if I need a hospital, schools, colleges and universities? Y’know, proper actually beneficial stuff?

    And the only city in the last 30 odd years that has benefitted economically from the Lympics is Barcelona. Sydney made huge losses, as did Seoul, Atlanta etc. And Athens was just a national disaster.

    Tell me how exactly that pattern will be broken here?

    aracer
    Free Member

    I’m slightly disappointed. Traditionally elf being banned was the cue for a game of “guess his new ID”.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Now, you don’t need to be a genius to work out that those homes won’t actually be affordable to most people living on lower than average incomes

    For someone who claims to have their finger on the pulse you arent very well informed fred.

    Welcome to http://www.triathlonhomes.com/ the social housing provider for the former Olympic Atheletes village site. Of the 4,500 new housing units being constructed about a third will be social access housing run by a social housing trust to provide:

    Intermediate rented: 354
    This is where rent is set at a certain percentage below market rates, usually about 20% lower than the standard market rate.

    Shared ownership / shared equity: 350
    Various shared ownership and equity models will be available, providing support for first time buyers to get on the property ladder.

    Social rented: 675
    This refers to homes where rent is set below market rates, at a rate that is affordable for people on low incomes.

    As any fule know (well I can think of one that probably doesnt) there’s no such thing as “affordable housing” in respect of the owner occupier market, no matter the best intentions. Affordable accommodation can only be genuinely delivered through the social rental market or the public sector equivalent: council houses.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Its got a diving board and everything

    Which no one will be allowed to use H&S and all that.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I think the idea behind the ‘legacy’ stuff is that people will come to use whatever facilities remain, and spend money in the process.

    The blind kid’s mother might not be able to afford the £250m houses, but someone will, and that person will live there and spend some money locally and help the local economy. Which could result in the woman having a job.

    That’s the theory anyway.

    And it’s pointless comparing us with Greece binners – totally different situation.

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    Social rented: 675
    This refers to homes where rent is set below market rates, at a rate that is affordable for people on low incomes.

    Hmm, do you have any idea of the numbers of people awaiting social housing in Tower Hamlets, Newham, Walthamstow and Hackney?

    (Clue: it’s a few more than 675…)

    I’m having tandoori chicken and an aubergine curry so I’ll be away for a little while. Oh the sybaritic decadence…

    Stoner
    Free Member

    The greek residential legacy was abandoned by the government with minimal infrastructure and no service provision (doctors, schools etc).

    The master plan for the legacy park incorporates all of that and a substantial amount of that provision is already committed to by the private sector. The remainder of the legacy sites will be coming to the market over the rest of the year and there’s plenty of interest in being involved in creating a new community in Newham.

    Of course since Fred is fully informed of the entire Olympic Park Legacy plans he will be able to tell me why it will never work and will turn out like Athens …
    … and then I can help him pick a nice RAL colour for the lettering on his next project because I read magazines occasionally.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Hmm, do you have any idea of the numbers of people awaiting social housing in Tower Hamlets, Newham, Walthamstow and Hackney?

    that’s all youve got? A complaint that the olympics wont single-handedly solve the East London social housing shortage? I think you’re argument just ran out of puff there.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    “We shouldnt have the Olympics ’cause I met a poor little blind girl”

    Give me a break

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    you’re

    :-)

    Stoner
    Free Member

    damn.

    TPTcruiser
    Full Member

    I used to live in Stratford when I went to QMC, nearly 30 years ago. My brother still lives in the area.
    Stratford looks a damned lot better now and it will soon have a John Lewis! Utterly amazing, I hope they employ some local people. The thought that Stratford would one day attract such investment is hard to believe.

    Economy bumping along the bottom, nothing more than we could expect. I do think Quantitative Easing money should be spent on infrastructure investment rather than giving it to banks to shuffle about.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    did darcy wait 15mins b4 pointing that out?

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    did darcy wait 15mins b4 pointing that out?

    :-)

    I think the gentleman’s rule is that once you’re quoted, you can’t really edit :-P Only avenging the pointing out of my earlier faux pas anyway…enjoying the debate though.

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    that’s all youve got?

    No, I’ve got loads more. I just can’t be bothered when the level of ‘debate’ is no more than playground bickering.

    See, look:

    “We shouldnt have the Olympics ’cause I met a poor little blind girl”

    Give me a break

    Total lack of understanding of what I’m actually on about, lack of awareness of the reality of issues faced by local people, and a lack of respect.

    Which is why I can’t be bothered any more. I’ve said my piece and that’s all that matters, quite frankly. All that will happen will be the usual ‘try to get Elfin banned’ type crap so end of.

    Stratford looks a damned lot better now and it will soon have a John Lewis!

    Arguable; loads of wildlife habitat destroyed, and Stratford will have a Prada shop. In one of the most deprived boroughs of the UK. Fantastic. :roll:

    Oh, the curry was lovely, btw. Having strawberries now.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    and Stratford will have a Prada shop. In one of the most deprived boroughs of the UK.

    reductio ad absurdum.

    no more than playground bickering.

    No longer the comfort zone for you it once was?

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Ah, the Scottish defence :)

    mcboo
    Free Member

    If the legacy of the Olympics is that a whole lot of young profesionals move into the Stratford area from where they can commute to good jobs in the West End, City and Canary Wharf then I’d say that was a total result for London.

    MSP
    Full Member

    If the legacy of the Olympics is that a whole lot of young profesionals move into the Stratford area from where they can commute to good jobs in the West End, City and Canary Wharf then I’d say that was a total result for London.

    And the people who already live there are forced out, to live in another run down borough with a different name, but as long as the ones that have already lucked out in life are looked after that’s aright.

    mcboo
    Free Member

    People move on. My parents did. I did. Old communities fade away, new ones form. I have no problem with that, if I did I’d still be sitting in my mum’s front room.

    15 years ago my neighborhood was pretty much all white/Irish working class Londoners. They’ve all moved to Essex to be replaced by young couples with kids, most of whom are various shades of beige, including my own. It’s just the way things are in cities, it’s probably why they work so well and what makes them such great places to live.

    binners
    Full Member

    People move on. My parents did. I did. Old communities fade away get booted out, new ones form use their wealth to colonise. I have no problem with that, if I did I’d still be sitting in my mum’s front room.

    FTFY

    allthepies
    Free Member

    <crosses Essex off visiting list>

    Ro5ey
    Free Member

    Nothing wrong with Essex

    Its where all us city boys live

    El-bent
    Free Member

    Nothing wrong with Essex

    Its where all us city boys live

    :lol:

    mt
    Free Member

    Elfin, your point regarding benefit.

    “And the only city in the last 30 odd years that has benefitted economically from the Lympics is Barcelona. Sydney made huge losses, as did Seoul, Atlanta etc. And Athens was just a national disaster.”

    1984 los angeles games had some really good out comes in various areas so it can be done.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    theres always the example of the montreal olympics

    The Olympics were a financial disaster for Montreal, as the city faced debts for 30 years after the Games had finished. The Quebec provincial government took over construction when it became evident in 1975 that work had fallen far behind schedule; work was still under way just weeks before the opening date, and the tower was not built. Mayor Jean Drapeau had confidently predicted in 1970 that “the Olympics can no more have a deficit than a man can have a baby”, but the debt racked up to a billion dollars that the Quebec government mandated the city pay in full. This would prompt cartoonist Aislin to draw a pregnant Drapeau on the telephone saying, “Allo, Morgentaler?” in reference to a Montreal abortionist.

    The Olympic Stadium was designed by French architect Roger Taillibert. It is often nicknamed The Big O as a reference to both its name and to the doughnut-shape of the permanent component of the stadium’s roof, though The Big Owe has been used to reference the astronomical cost of the stadium and the 1976 Olympics as a whole. It has never had an effective retractable roof, and the tower was completed only after the Olympics. In December 2006 the stadium’s costs were finally paid in full.[8] The total expenditure (including repairs, renovations, construction, interest, and inflation) amounted to C$1.61 billion. Today, despite its huge cost, the stadium is devoid of a major tenant, after the Montreal Expos moved in 2005.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    Well we have two premiership teams bitch fighting over the olympic stadium, so lacking a “major tenant” isnt really a problem for Stratford.

    We’ve also had 8 bidders whittled down to 3, then to one to take over the athletes village. All that’s left is the remainder of the legacy park for which substantial interest has already been shown and the park hasnt even been put out to the market yet. Each of these sales, BTW< raises massive amount of money to pay back the build. I dont think the build cost breaks even, but it’s not a massive net loss.

    Sue_W
    Free Member

    Elfin – maybe the ‘legacy’ will include Waitrose … preferably one selling avocados :wink:

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    But I’ve already got a Waitrose near me. Don’t need another one.

    If the legacy of the Olympics is that a whole lot of young profesionals move into the Stratford area from where they can commute to good jobs in the West End, City and Canary Wharf then I’d say that was a total result for London.

    And the people who already live there are forced out, to live in another run down borough with a different name, but as long as the ones that have already lucked out in life are looked after that’s aright.

    MSP answers this pretty much as I would. Interesting that McBoo sees only ‘young professionals’ as those deserving of decent homes and good easy access to work. Sod those who’ve grafted in crappy low-paid jobs, eh? Yeah, make the scum go and live somewhere else, so they don’t make the place look so untidy… :roll:

    So, Stoner; got yer Oyster Card charged up then?

    El-bent
    Free Member

    We’ve also had 8 bidders whittled down to 3, then to one to take over the athletes village. All that’s left is the remainder of the legacy park for which substantial interest has already been shown and the park hasnt even been put out to the market yet. Each of these sales, BTW< raises massive amount of money to pay back the build. I dont think the build cost breaks even, but it’s not a massive net loss.

    Well, since its being built with a lot of public money, after the Olympics it should be kept for Public use, NOT sold to private enterprise for less than cost who will then charge us the public for the privilege of access.

    Also, its clear what will happen to that part of London…it will become a desert, a rich desert with all the undesirables shifted out to the fringes. You only need to look at the other great project there in the last few decades (Docklands) to see where this is heading.

    Of course there are a lot of west ham UTD supporters there, so clearing them out may not be so bad after all… :wink:

    Sue_W
    Free Member

    Yup – quite a lot of publc money – cost of the Olympics £9.3bn … interesting that it was protected in the Comprehensive Spending Review when the DCMS budget (which covers grassroots participation in sports and the arts) was cut by 25%. It was claimed that this was because the Games budget was already committed to contracts, but somehow this doesn’t seemed to have stopped the rest of the public sector having to pull out of existing contracts due to government cuts, plus apparently the huge ‘contingency’ budget of the games also needed to be protected despite the fact that it wasn’t committed expenditure. But hey, apparently ‘the eyes of the world will be on us’ for the Olympics, let’s just hope they don’t look in the wrong places …

    Maybe I’m just feeling a bit frustrated about the impact of cuts on community sports, recreation and physical activity having spent the day going through the evidence on the substantial benefits from participation – everything from reducing obesity, improving mental health, providing opportunities (and even careers) for some of the sectors of society that face the greatest challenges. And then discussing how we will have to reduce support for delivery due to governments cuts … What ‘legacy’ was it we were talking about?

    Northwind
    Full Member

    5thElefant – Member

    Goes back to the aftermath of ww2. Germany was rebuilt as a manufacturing superpower with US cash. We were broke and on strike.

    Common misconception- the UK got the most Marshall Plan money by an enormous margin. Germany received less than half as much US funding than the UK. Meanwhile Germany paid reparations and faced crippling restrictions on industry.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    What ‘legacy’ was it we were talking about?

    werent you paying attention

    macdonalds are opening the worlds largest maccy ds!

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    But hey, apparently ‘the eyes of the world will be on us’ for the Olympics, let’s just hope they don’t look in the wrong places …

    What, like Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Newham; some of the most deprived areas of the UK?

    Oh….

    hh45
    Free Member

    Sod off, Hackney is great and doing alot better than most of our northern cities that are suffering from the hit to manufacturing etc. New shops, bars and cafes every month, new housing going up all over, private and social. Been here 20 years and its never looked better.

    The wider economy is clearly stuffed however, or at least becalmed to be polite but who really has a sensible idea? Not the gits in Labour that got us in this fix with their freespending ways from 2001 to 2010. I can’t avoid the conclusion that we are all screwed by indebtedness, government, corporate and private and only a long spell of inflation is going to cure it. Japan lost a decade and probably so shall we.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    be more than a decade if osbornes at the rudder!

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Not the gits in Labour that got us in this fix with their freespending ways from 2001 to 2010

    yes the economic downturn is purely due to labour , who caused the world wide economic recession, and nothing to do with the current actions of the present government.
    Ps the current Tory givt agreed to atch the spending plans pre recession and george , our current chancellor praised both Ireland and Iceland as examples pre crash.
    Have your own political view by all means but dont think the situation was caused by governments. all you can do is consider whether what they did helped or hindered.

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