• This topic has 47 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by kelvin.
Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 48 total)
  • eBiike Weightwatchers
  • Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Last August, picked up a YT Decoy Pro 29. It has definitely done the job it was intended to do – by getting me out more often and letting me not slow down my riding buddies. However, it is a bit heavy and as a result not as nimble as normal bikes or as easy to transport.

    As a result, I want to make it lighter – if I can. With 30+ years riding, I know how to make a normal bike lose weight – but ebikes seem a little different, and in all honesty in recent years, the weight of my normal bikes became less of a concern than durability and performance.

    With ebikes needing to handle more torque and inherently heavier – what changes should I avoid and what should I definitely consider. I have made some obvious changes – stem, carbon bars, tyres, saddle etc. Some of my questions are:
    – Are ebikes great candidates for carbon wheels? I’ve avoided them on my normal bikes…
    – With normal bikes, I’ve not had huge problems with tyres and needed particularly reinforced walls – but I have gone with Supergravity Schwables on my ebike is this overkill?
    – Are Vittoria Airliners, again overkill with the above – I have them fitted to my ebike only?
    – With a Shimano motor, I have a limited choice of cranks, so don’t think that’s an option…

    Anyway, before I write War and Peace, does anyone have any ideas? I’d like to get sub 20kg, if I could. It would make transporting it a lot easier, if nothing else…

    Premier Icon daveylad
    Free Member

    A few hundred grams here or there. Yes it all adds up but when you have 8kg of battery & motor, its really doesnt seem worthwhile.
    I have carbon hoops on my ebike, not to save weight, they are stronger. Plus heavy duty tyres as I dont want to end a ride due to a slashed tyre.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Yes it all adds up but when you have 8kg of battery & motor, its really doesnt seem worthwhile.

    I was thinking of getting a custom battery made – half the size. Most of my rides I don’t use 50% of the capacity…

    Premier Icon daveylad
    Free Member

    Sounds like a levo sl or the orbea would suit better than the decoy, if you want a light ebike.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    Dropping 3kg+ without sacrificing durability won’t be cheap/possible.

    I found I got used to it after a while, it’s only when you get on a normal bike that you really notice, which may not be an issue.

    Premier Icon mjsmke
    Free Member

    Would there be an option in the near future to have a battery in a backpack? A slim, flexible battery pack perhaps. Connectivity would be the only issue but not impossible. I know the total weight will be the same but I find a light bike and backpack much more fun and more balanced than a heavy bike.

    Premier Icon samuelr
    Free Member

    Absolute waste of time. I’m assuming the battery is lithium and not nicad. The lithium battery will way naff all in relation to a motor/gearbox. The frame will be heavy as to support the gbox and motor. All other components will be over built because of, you guessed it, the gear box and motor.

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    Dont think you can lose the sort of weight you’re talking about with just the usual suspects in terms of saving weight on a mountain bike. You could probably knock half a kilo off easily enough, but then that’ll be the limit of weight saving without compromising what the bike is good at.

    But if you get any good ideas, put them here, I’ve been pondering how to do the same with my orbea wild fs, but came to the conclusion its not possible without changing what the bike is good at. However I do have the option of swapping to a smaller 500wh battery and saving 700g, which I may well do.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    Take the battery out and put it in a rucksack for the downs? Not a convenient option, mind.

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    Absolute waste of time. I’m assuming the battery is lithium and not nicad. The lithium battery will way naff all in relation to a motor/gearbox. The frame will be heavy as to support the gbox and motor. All other components will be over built because of, you guessed it, the gear box and motor.

    wrong actually, well you’re not wrong in it being a waste of time, but your wrong about the battery being naff all in relation to the motor. The motor and battery are pretty much equal in weight, at about 3kg each in the decoy. In my bike the battery (3.6kg) is heavier than the motor (3kg)

    and all the other components are just standard mtb components.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Thanks for your input guys – much appreciated.

    I did consider the Levo SL, but it seemed too much of a compromise. The Orbea Rise, would probably be my choice now – but it wasn’t there 9 months ago, when I ordered the Decoy. The Decoy is a great, very capable bike – so I’m still happy with it.

    I think, I will consider some carbon wheels and maybe dropping the Airliners when I change the tyres next. That will net a 750g saving. When the XT cassette wears out – an XX1 is over 100g lighter. That will need to do!

    Premier Icon snotrag
    Full Member

    Sell it, buy a Levo SL or an Orbea Rise.

    You say:

    I did consider the Levo SL, but it seemed too much of a compromise

    But then you also say:

    Most of my rides I don’t use 50% of the capacity…

    Reminds me of when in my job we were developing electric Buses for Transport For London. In their specification they said they wanted (for instance) 200 miles range. We found they actually only did 100 miles.

    Buying a vehicle with a 200 mile range and only doing 100 miles was far, far less efficient, and much more expensive, than just using the right one in the first place.

    Premier Icon thegeneralist
    Full Member

    I think, I will consider some carbon wheels and maybe dropping the Airliners when I change the tyres next. That will net a 750g saving. When the XT cassette wears out – an XX1 is over 100g lighter. That will need to do!

    This all seems so bizarre.
    Fair enough, if you were actually propelling the bike uphill, but you’re not, it’s got a motor in it for that.
    This all seems like a more extreme and silly version of my own ” get me a bike that will do roads and flats as well as my Giant Anthem and will do gnarr and descents as well as my 150mm Occam”. They are two different things, and incompatible.

    You’ve taken it a stage further by saying ” get me a bike that has a motor in it to assist me going up hills, but doesn’t weigh much more than a bike with no motor to assis me going up hills”

    Are you really going to buy a XXI cassette to save 100g on an ebike?

    Bloody Nora.

    Premier Icon chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    The more you ride it hard downhill, the stronger you’ll get and the lighter it’ll feel.

    Premier Icon z1ppy
    Free Member

    Sell it, buy a Levo SL or an Orbea Rise.

    +1, as shirely the depreciation, is probably equal, to the cost of a decent set of carbon wheels.

    Premier Icon oikeith
    Full Member

    I think, I will consider some carbon wheels and maybe dropping the Airliners when I change the tyres next. That will net a 750g saving. When the XT cassette wears out – an XX1 is over 100g lighter. That will need to do!

    Just drop the air liners now, rotational mass might be what is making the bike less nimble when out on the trail. I’m sure if it felt more nimble the weight when transporting would bother you less.

    Premier Icon clubby
    Full Member

    Won’t make a difference. These bikes are heavy, you just get used to it. My Whyte has a 2.5 DD rear tyre and a NX cassette, to be frank the rear wheel is a boat anchor. Put my trail bike wheel on it with exo tyre and gx cassette, weighing 500g less and feels a lot lighter in the hand but feels no different once on the bike. No difference on trail either.

    Premier Icon andykentos
    Free Member

    Sell it and by the e bike you want, something like this.

    https://www.lapierrebikes.com/gb-en/o/ezesty-am-90/

    Like you say, you dont need such a big battery so why not try and save weight there rather than buying XC Parts and putting them on an enduro e bike…

    Premier Icon HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Will a half capacity battery definitely work? Presumably you’ll need to drain 2x as much current from each cell, which might be too much? Most of the bikes i’ve seen with 250wh batteries have reduced the power output of the motor. No idea how you’d fool the Shimano system into accepting a non-shimano battery mangement system either.

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    You mention airliners but not what tyres. Current human powered thinking is to use lighter casing tyres and liners/inserts whatever.
    Unconstrained by rolling resistance have you considered stepping up a casing level and ditching the liners?
    Or even just ditching the liners, especially on the front. Its only the last couple of years these have apparently become mandatory, tubeless tyres worked just fine on their own before.

    Premier Icon andykentos
    Free Member

    I meant buy a bike which has a different system , the lapierre above has a fazua motor and 250WH battery. Only weighs 17-18kg.

    Premier Icon intheborders
    Free Member

    I was thinking of getting a custom battery made – half the size. Most of my rides I don’t use 50% of the capacity…

    Ride more and you’ll get fitter and then the weight won’t feel as much.

    Premier Icon Blackflag
    Free Member

    Swap bottle mount bolts for titanium. Replace grips with bar tape.

    That should sort it right out.

    Premier Icon argee
    Full Member

    You just have to live with the weight unfortunately, and the struggle in moving it around at times, winter’s a bad time for ebikes, they’re heavy, the don’t stop that well and they get bogged in the mud at times so hard to turn. It’s just the negatives you have to live with due to having a motor and battery on board.

    There’s no real area i would want to save weight if using the bike properly, i have carbon wheels on mine, not due to strength or weight, but due to getting them for a budget price and rebuilding them over time, they don’t save that much over a good set of aluminium, such as 1501s or the likes.

    Drivetrain, you could save a few grams, but costs are huge and any reduction is material or strength reduction, so on an ebike not that great of a sacrifice.

    Reality is you either need to get something else that’s more up to what you do, or live with the limitations, i do the same with my ebike, i am not a fan of the motors casing strikes, or the heavy rear end making tight and twisty stuff a nightmare, but just know it is what it is and try and minimize doing that stuff on the ebike, funnily enough was out on the normal bike yesterday and loved the downhills, so much more fluid and less worry about striking stuff or dragging, but the uphills were not pleasant!

    Premier Icon chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    “winter’s a bad time for ebikes, they’re heavy, the don’t stop that well and they get bogged in the mud at times so hard to turn”

    ????

    Winter is a great time for ebikes! Am totally confused by what you describe – the only time an ebike is less good than a normal bike in the mud is when it breaks, when you have to carry it or when it lands on top of you!

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    Winter is a great time for ebikes! Am totally confused by what you describe – the only time an ebike is less good than a normal bike in the mud is when it breaks, when you have to carry it or when it lands on top of you!

    yep agree, extra weight makes it cut through the mud better than normal bike. dont recognise winter not being good for ebike at all.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    winter’s a bad time for ebikes, they’re heavy, the don’t stop that well and they get bogged in the mud at times so hard to turn

    I found that was more a plus tire issue, rather than an ebike issue.

    A pair of 29×2.5 shorty’s soon solved it 😊

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Ride more and you’ll get fitter and then the weight won’t feel as much.

    I won’t get fitter – I have progressive, non-congestive heart failure. The issue with the Levo SL, isn’t the range – it’s the power. Whilst I largely use eco, getting me up the steep hills I enjoy means that trail and occasionally boost, especially when I am tired.

    I did look at selling the bike and buying a lighter one, but the Orbea is not available for 9 months at the soonest. So, that’s not an option for now.

    None of the parts I have suggested would be XC spec – all are trail or enduro parts.

    Weight for transport is an issue, as I am not meant to lift heavy weights and put strain on my heart – so that is also a bit crucial…

    I have thought about ditching the tyre inserts, though was wondering though if they were helpful with the bike weight…?

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Also, I already have a XX1 Eagle groupset on another bike, so would swap across.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    I have to say I agree, it is excellent in mud, much less tiring!

    Premier Icon muggomagic
    Full Member

    Weight for transport is an issue, as I am not meant to lift heavy weights and put strain on my heart – so that is also a bit crucial…

    What about a tow bar rack and one of these? That way you won’t need to be lifting the bike at all.

    https://www.trailertek.com/trailer-parts/cycle-racks/thule-easyfold-loading-ramp-9334

    Premier Icon z1ppy
    Free Member

    Indeed e-bike were made to make winters easier to face.
    Dammit you, come round here with you reasonable request due to health issues 😆
    Still not sure a carbon wheel set will make that much difference weight wise, but it all helps. I’d dump the front insert, swap to some more reasonable weight tyre, but I’d keep the rear insert myself.
    I’d suggest contacting the guy behind Trailwatts About a custom battery, as he definitely seems to know his beans

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Again, thank you all for your help – a bit of your perspectives, helps me greatly.

    Jay

    Premier Icon Tracey
    Full Member

    Tend to ride mine all year round alternating between the Turbo Levo and my Enduro. It doesn’t seem to hold any more/less gunge. I also have access to a Levo SL and have done back to back climbs and descends on both which are built with similar components. The big difference in the weights are the motor and battery and I’m not sure much can be shaved of them. I can’t see by swapping out components will show a noticeable difference.
    Running carbon wheels on ours and no rim inserts.

    Premier Icon jedi
    Free Member

    Carbon wheels flex less ime and make the ebike more nimble

    Premier Icon argee
    Full Member

    chiefgrooveguru
    Free Member
    “winter’s a bad time for ebikes, they’re heavy, the don’t stop that well and they get bogged in the mud at times so hard to turn”

    ????

    Winter is a great time for ebikes! Am totally confused by what you describe – the only time an ebike is less good than a normal bike in the mud is when it breaks, when you have to carry it or when it lands on top of you!

    As stated within my post, i was on about downhill, they tend to be sluggish compared to my normal enduro, trying to move the back end around turns is harder as well, much prefer normal for DH, ebike for general, especially if there’s a lot of uphill!

    Premier Icon chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    “ As stated within my post, i was on about downhill, they tend to be sluggish compared to my normal enduro, trying to move the back end around turns is harder as well, much prefer normal for DH”

    Well I got rid of my normal full-sus and just have my Levo and my gnarly hardtail so I guess that sums up my views on ebikes downhill! I do think ebikes have quite a bit more grip – I’ve been running a cut spike type tyre up front since I got it and an intermediate out back, so the rear can usually be made to drift on demand. I particularly like two wheeled drifts in the mud on the Levo, it’s so good at them.

    Premier Icon argee
    Full Member

    Drifting isn’t an issue on muddy stuff, i find ebikes great on flow style stuff, they weight and power just give it a little edge, but on tech stuff through woods, with tight turns you can’t really drift, you need to lighten that back end and lift it a little round, i just don’t have the confidence with the ebike to do that, i either underdo it and go too outside and struggle, or overdo it and come off the bike, maybe this summer i’ll put a bit of effort into learning that stuff on the ebike, i just find it way easier on the enduro though.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Swap bottle mount bolts for titanium. Replace grips with bar tape.

    That should sort it right out.

    😁😁😁

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Full Member

    Ok, I have gone full on with the drillium, cut down my bars to 540mm, Continental Cross Country 1.5” tyres, an 11-23 cassette, Ritchey foam grips and I have just dipped under the 21.5kg bar… 😁

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