Viewing 40 posts - 3,361 through 3,400 (of 3,481 total)
  • Easing of Scottish lockdown
  • Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Did I not hear a ‘we may alter the advice/guidance/restrictions for the tiers’…?
    I’m clutching at straws that someone in Scot Gov will work out that accessing nature and recreation for us all is a huge benefit – arguably more so than pubs, barbers and shops opening. (IANA barber). I’m hoping we see an end of march ‘get outdoors on day trips’ message clearly, rather than the current tier 3 ‘stay local’.

    I agree that people’s grace and patience is eroded, mine included, and many will try and breakout ahead of the dates proposed.

    Premier Icon pjm60
    Free Member

    I live alone and WFH in glasgow, on average physically seeing one person outside per week other than shopping once or twice a week. While I have a small garden and a park within a couple of miles, there’s not many hills within 5 miles of glasgow city council borders. The idea of being in level 3 (i.e. unable to travel out of local authority area) at best by the end of April is depressing (Sturgeon said data could bring it forward, but the risk of moving back seems equally large).

    While it’s pretty tame stuff as sob stories go, it’s the seeming unending unnuanced restrictions combined with seemingly minimal risk to anyone of me, say, going solo walking/cycling/wild camping, or seeing my parents, that are getting to me. I’m not sure I’ll be following the guidance as closely as I have been come April/May. That feeling will be amplified greatly if ‘vaccine passports’ become a thing and my demographic is last in line while those I’ve been isolating in order to protect have restrictions relaxed. Does that make me selfish irresponsible etc etc? Probably.

    Premier Icon joat
    Full Member

    The tier system does seem a bit archaic already though

    Really? I don’t think the folk of Shetland should have to live with the consequences of trolley-licking Glaswegians.

    I do agree with you, but a socially distancing Glaswegian might not.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    pjm60

    I don’t think you are alone in feeling like that. I have been very compliant but I am reaching the end of my tether. the worst was in the snow recently. I couldn’t even go to the pentlands to play as arthurs seat is closer! Let alone seeing Scotroutes pics!

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    ‘vaccine passports’

    Patrick Harvie and Nicola made strong points that any kind of passport scheme promotes social division and elitism, easy to forge anyway, and compromises human rights. R4 had someone on talking about it basically being ID cards through the back door…

    Premier Icon lotto
    Free Member

    While it’s pretty tame stuff as sob stories go

    I get where you are coming from. When I feel like this I just think what it must have been like during the World Wars and what those people lived through helps get me some perspective back.  Imagine if rationing had to have happened during Covid. I’m not even sure society nowadays would cope without a mutiny/civil disturbance.

    Premier Icon munrobiker
    Free Member

    I can only repeat how glad I am that I live in Aviemore and not Edinburgh, though even the latter was at least blessed with easy access to the Pentlands.

    Speak for yourself! It’s been a great place to be locked down – there’s enough interesting historic and cultural stuff you can see outdoors that even my wife has been generally entertained, the Pentlands are right there, we’ve got 5 bloody great hills that feel like the outdoors in easy reach. And, for people my age, there’s at least other young people to hang about with. I’ve spent the last few weeks thinking thank god I don’t live in rural Derbyshire, which is where I moved up from.

    Premier Icon convert
    Full Member

    To me LA levels has to be the way to go until we are back to normal. It helps keep flare ups local and protects areas with it currently under control. Anything that gives those who have had the vaccine better privileges to those patiently waiting would be grossly unfair.

    To contradict myself vaccine passports as access to ‘good stuff’ like planes and large music venues might be the only way to get the sizable anti vax sheeple (not the hardcore – they are a lost cause) to give up their ‘principles’.

    And with substantially different entry requirements from outside of the UK to Scotland to the rest of the UK the Scotland/England boarder crossing seems like a very weak link.

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Speak for yourself! It’s been a great place to be locked down

    Yep, Edinburgh (and by extension anywhere within riding-there-and-back distance of Edinburgh) has kept me well entertained, in fact for winter riding I think I’ve been better off than I would have been in say, oooh some frigid wasteland further north 😉

    Premier Icon squirrelking
    Free Member

    I don’t think you are alone in feeling like that.

    I’ve absolutely had it as well. Can’t see friends or family (barring my dad at work) and still another 3 months?

    R4 had someone on talking about it basically being ID cards through the back door…

    Which are evil unlike drivers licences and biometric passports (the former being incapable of being renewed online without the latter). But that’s another discussion.

    Premier Icon a11y
    Full Member

    I’m not sure I’ll be following the guidance as closely as I have been come April/May. That feeling will be amplified greatly if ‘vaccine passports’ become a thing and my demographic is last in line while those I’ve been isolating in order to protect have restrictions relaxed. Does that make me selfish irresponsible etc etc? Probably.

    *raises hand in agreement*

    I feel I might struggle to avoid doing solo bike rides on my local trails (25mins drive away but 10 miles into a neighbouring LA) for another 6/7 weeks. I’ve been following the rules strictly to date, but the thought of no proper MTBing until early April at earliest is really getting me down. Being sensible about it, the risk to me or others is minimal with contact with other users easily avoidable – assuming I remember how to stay attached to my bike – but I know it’d be wrong. I’ll never take those trails for granted ever again.

    Premier Icon onehundredthidiot
    Free Member

    Just asked a promoted post holder if we’ll get in before 15th march to mark the 2m spacing between pupil’s seats.

    Answer: the distance will be reduced before then.

    I’ll be taking up the eis post then and looking carefully at the risk assessment.

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Full Member

    Premier Icon jodafett
    Full Member

    Really? I don’t think the folk of Shetland should have to live with the consequences of trolley-licking Glaswegians.

    Coffee, Screen interface 😂😂

    Premier Icon gordimhor
    Full Member

    I’m absolutely against vaccine passports, aside from creating social inequality we don’t know with certainty that vaccines reduce transmission.

    Premier Icon paul0
    Free Member

    I can only repeat how glad I am that I live in Aviemore and not Edinburgh, though even the latter was at least blessed with easy access to the Pentlands

    Or Aberdeen. Bottom of the league table at 27/100k at present, and we’re supposed to stay cooped-up within the city+5 until May ??? I’ve thought the scot gov approach has been pretty good in general… but they are starting to lose me now! Really, what difference would allowing day trips for outside activities make …. ?

    Premier Icon fasgadh
    Free Member

    Your start/finish point must be within 5miles (8km) of up your council area.

    Start/finish point.

    Premier Icon convert
    Full Member

    Bottom of the league table at 27/100k at present

    I clocked that. Considering what dirty, dirty boys and girls you’ve been in the past that’s pretty amazing.

    Premier Icon jodafett
    Full Member

    Premier Icon
    fasgadh
    Free Member

    Your start/finish point must be within 5miles (8km) of up your council area.

    Start/finish point.

    Does that mean I could cycle from my house in Edinburgh, down to the Borders and back and stay within the rules. Yes/ No answers please ( I’m not trying to start an argument). I’m trying to train for a race and doing 100km+ round the city is pretty tiresome, and that includes a lap of the Pentlands!

    Premier Icon chainbreaker
    Free Member

    Now, I understand the government’s between a rock and a hard place but as much as I despise him, Boris raised a very good point yesterday in saying that despite whatever happens we’ll have to learn to live with covid going forwards and that it’ll never completely go away. Even if cases dropped to zero in May/June it’ll flare up again in places (see Australia/New Zealand as examples).

    With the current success of the vaccination programme I would say we could afford to be more lenient about lifting restrictions than planned. Focus should be on trying to get the economy going instead of dragging on this lockdown which is becoming increasingly more unnecessary as cases continue to drop.

    Too much caution could penalise the SNP as well because people really are fed up with the lockdown.

    I think they’ll be losing seats in the May elections with the responses I’ve seen online to today’s announcements…

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    I couldn’t even go to the pentlands to play as arthurs seat is closer! Let alone seeing Scotroutes pics!

    TJ – you are punishing yourself here, not the government. The regs permit you to go to the pentlands (some cynical people might even think the +5 miles rule was specifically made to let Edinbuggers to the pentlands!)- if you impose your own level of restrictions beyond the government that’s kind of your own fault.

    I do agree with you, but a socially distancing Glaswegian might not.

    As someone who has done everything possible to stick within the rules, but who’s LA was put in Level 4 in December when others were going to level 2 or 3 it was frustrating – especially as the town I live in was one of the “better” bits and I haven’t any reason to mix with people from the “dodgier” bits. But I have no problem seeing that cases in Ayr or Aberdeen are unlikely to have an impact on those in Aberdour, or that someone in Kirkwall should not be restricted because of an outbreak in Kircaldy or Kingussie.

    That feeling will be amplified greatly if ‘vaccine passports’ become a thing and my demographic is last in line while those I’ve been isolating in order to protect have restrictions relaxed. Does that make me selfish irresponsible etc etc? Probably.

    There’s **** all chance of that happening before most people have been offered a first injection. There is no way that this government would manage to agree on the approach and utility of such a system in that timescale, never mind implement it. I don’t see the point for domestic use, and even for international travel it probably results in a false sense of security.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    jodafett – yes

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    TJ – you are punishing yourself here, not the government. The regs permit you to go to the pentlands (some cynical people might even think the +5 miles rule was specifically made to let Edinbuggers to the pentlands!)- if you impose your own level of restrictions beyond the government that’s kind of your own fault.

    NOpe – you are supposed to only travel as far as needed to do your exercise up ie you are not supposed to go past a place where you can do the exercise you want. so for a walk in the snow and a bit of sledging I would have to go past Arthurs seat to get to the pentlands.

    i have cycled out to the pentlands because there is no where nearer comparable but I can walk to Arthurs seat whereas to get the the pentland would require a taxi or bus

    local outdoor informal exercise such as walking, cycling, golf, or running (in groups of up to 2 people, plus any children under 12, from no more than 2 households). Exercise can start and finish at a place in your local authority area (or up to 5 miles from its boundary), but you should travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a physically distanced way.

    Edit – cycling I cannot find offroad climbs closer withing the law. Walking I can.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    jodafett

    I would suggest that is within the law / guidence just about but falls foul of the highlighted bit above in that you can find quiet roads closer to the city

    Premier Icon paul0
    Free Member

    Your start/finish point must be within 5miles (8km) of up your council area.

    Yes, planning to make use of this for some longer rides, now that the snow has gone. But not so much use when trying to find stuff to do with the kids. Ach, must keep things in perspective it’s not a big deal.

    I clocked that. Considering what dirty, dirty boys and girls you’ve been in the past that’s pretty amazing.

    Nah we’ve been quite lucky here, middle of the table was the highest we got.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    With the current success of the vaccination programme I would say we could afford to be more lenient about lifting restrictions than planned. Focus should be on trying to get the economy going instead of dragging on this lockdown which is becoming increasingly more unnecessary as cases continue to drop.

    At least some of the Scottish advisors are big advocates of “zero covid” (which is really badly named as it accepts that 0 is impossible, and means so low you can properly trace and isolate every case and all their contacts). You can’t achieve that when we have 800 new cases a day, we almost managed it last summer. We’ve just started testing asymptomatic contacts which should be a step-change in response to developing situations and stamping out outbreaks before they become significant. I think you can only say “we could afford to…” if you can back it up with modelling or data from a similar country (E,W,NI,I are good examples!) who have done something similar without tipping the balance of R. Its not like we have much headroom to play with. Cases aren’t really dropping just now – despite the restrictions and the vaccines – the average daily cases has been bouncing around 8-900 for the last 2 weeks at least. What people usually mean when they say “we could afford to…” is “I’d like to be able to do X, and I don’t think me doing X would make a difference. It’s not my fault if 5M other people being permitted to do X would screw things up”.

    I think they’ll be losing seats in the May elections with the responses I’ve seen online to today’s announcements…

    I’m not so sure. Who would one vote for if they think the SNP are being too tough? I’ve seen a lot of unhappy people but they all seem to caveat it with “I know its probably right, buy a hell of a frustrating” and “she’s still not as clueless as Boris”. By the time they vote people will just be starting to see relaxation and feeling a bit more positive. She might even get to unlock quicker or tweak the levels and make them feel better still. Meanwhile her biggest helper in Downing St will probably have caused some local crisis and brought in panicked local restrictions just about the time he’s promised people they can go on holiday. I think the worst they face is some of the 2020 upswing going back to type, or perhaps some abstentions – but I doubt they’ll lose seats because of this (there may be other issues that cost them seats – relating to local MSP’s, selection lists etc).

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    Cases aren’t really dropping just now – despite the restrictions and the vaccines – the average daily cases has been bouncing around 8-900 for the last 2 weeks at least.

    Indeed, we’ve barely got back to where we were before Christmas

    Premier Icon imnotverygood
    Full Member

    , but you should travel no further than you need to reach to a safe, non-crowded place to exercise in a physically distanced way.

    I suggest ‘travel’ means ‘drive’. Otherwise you would literally have to cycle around the block for an hour if you lived in a quiet area and fancied going for a bike ride. I really think you have over-interpreted the situation. I don’t believe this means that you can’t cycle to the Pentlands if you are also passing Arthur’s Seat

    Premier Icon aberdeenlune
    Free Member

    Reasons to be cheerful part 3. Ride from the house and you can go as far as you want as long as your ride finishes back at home.

    Coffee shops are still open for takeaways.

    You will be able to ride with pal(s)from 15th March.

    The days are getting longer and the snow is disappearing 🤪

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    NOpe – you are supposed to only travel as far as needed to do your exercise up ie you are not supposed to go past a place where you can do the exercise you want. so for a walk in the snow and a bit of sledging I would have to go past Arthurs seat to get to the pentlands.

    I think if you are adopting the guidance rather than the legislation you can’t really complain they are restricting you. You’ve obviously decided that Arthurs seat was good enough, otherwise like dozens of others you’d have gone to the Pentlands.

    i have cycled out to the pentlands because there is no where nearer comparable but I can walk to Arthurs seat whereas to get the the pentland would require a taxi or bus

    You can walk to the pentlands if you get up early enough in the morning! Is it the First Minister’s fault that you choose not to own a car (or presumably to join the city car club?)? I don’t understand how the situation would have been better for you if she said you could go to speyside to play in the snow – but avoid public transport?

    The snow caused some people real problems – lots of elderly folk who couldn’t get about on icy streets; people who were expecting food deliveries which didn’t come; people who don’t have a bloody great hill to walk on their doorstep who travel somewhere by car to get into nature and couldn’t get out their streets; essential workers who couldn’t get to work, especially those who would normally share a lift with someone else in the snow. Only in Edinburgh would people complain that lockdown+snow was causing them issues because Arthur’s seat isn’t as good as the Pentlands!

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I wasn’t really complaining just passing comment. It was one of the few times that i would have prefered to live in the highlands

    I think we should all try to follow the guidance as much as we can. We had a good day out on Arthurs seat

    I don’t believe this means that you can’t cycle to the Pentlands if you are also passing Arthur’s Seat

    Correct IMO – but we were walking! following the guidance to walk past Arthurs seat to go to the pentlands would be wrong. However although biking on Arthurs seat is a gray area signs have gone up asking people not to cycle offroad on the higher parts – so to cycle offroad and do some climbing Pentlands is the closest and i have done so a few times

    To go for a proper walk in the Pentlands would have meant driving and driving past Arthurs seat, Its best part of a 20 mile round trip from my house – a bit far to walk to go for a walk.

    its clearly outwith the guidence for me to drive out to the pentlands from here when I have more than adequate places to walk nearer which do not require a drive

    Edit – clearly also different if you live on the south side of the city

    Premier Icon paul0
    Free Member

    its clearly outwith the guidence for me to drive out to the pentlands from here when I have more than adequate places to walk nearer which do not require a drive

    To my mind the intended purpose of the ‘council boundary+5’ rule was to allow exactly this…. so that city council areas residents could spread out a bit for their exercise. But perhaps I’m guilty of taking the interpretation that suits me!

    Premier Icon jodafett
    Full Member

    jodafett – yes

    Cheers. A lap or two of the Borders this weekend then!

    Premier Icon oldbloke
    Free Member

    To my mind the intended purpose of the ‘council boundary+5’ rule was to allow exactly this…. so that city council areas residents could spread out a bit for their exercise. But perhaps I’m guilty of taking the interpretation that suits me!

    Edinburgh’s 100 sq miles includes a chunk of the Pentlands, so if we didn’t travel to spread out a bit all 500k of us would be in the same central green spaces. I run out to Braids or Pentlands because the places closer to me are crowded with people who don’t seem to remember to keep their distance when passing. And also reduces the increasing wear and tear on a small number of places which are being wrecked at present.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Full Member

    Indeed, we’ve barely got back to where we were before Christmas

    but some areas are lower so why not go back to local tiers now. Scot gov were quick enough to put Aberdeen into a local lockdown

    Premier Icon bellerophon
    Free Member

    @jodafett – I don’t think it’s a yes, unless when you say “your house in Edinburgh” is in fact in West/Mid/East Lothian, which in that case it’s a yes 😀

    Premier Icon irc
    Free Member

    I’m off work most of March – using up holidays. If we get a spell of warm dry weather I’ll be off for an overnighter or two in the highlands. Less risk than going for a walk in the local park.

    http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2021/02/22/the-scottish-governments-approach-to-outdoor-recreation-is-not-justifiable/

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Full Member

    Less risk than going for a walk in the local park.

    constantly have this discussion with my wife, shes happy for me to go to the local tesco and mix with 100’s of the great unwashed yet raises an eyebrow and tuts about be driving 15 miles to cycle in a forest where I’ll meet maybe 2 others if I’m lucky.

    Premier Icon jodafett
    Full Member

    I don’t think it’s a yes, unless when you say “your house in Edinburgh” is in fact in West/Mid/East Lothian, which in that case it’s a yes 😀

    Ah! I see your point!

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    @jodafett – I don’t think it’s a yes, unless when you say “your house in Edinburgh” is in fact in West/Mid/East Lothian, which in that case it’s a yes

    He can start at his house ride all the way through Mid Lothian, East Lothian and the Borders and then back through West lothian to his house if he wants within the legislation. Or he can drive into any of the neighbouring authorities by up to 5 miles so long as he starts and finishes at the same place. Its legal. It may not be within the spirit of the guidance – but if the government wanted the rules to be stricter they should have put the legislation before parliament for scrutiny. I’m not suggesting people don’t go beyond the legislation where it makes sense but if you follow the guidance to your own detriment you are allowing a low-grade civil servant to determine your freedoms, and then potentially imposing restrictions from ambiguous wording that was never even intended.

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