Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 57 total)
  • Early morning gym sessions – eat before?
  • Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Basic stuff for the gym go-ers I’m sure but I’m still new to it.

    My early morning riding routine is to ride fasted if I have an easy session planned, simple carbs like fruit etc. 30 minutes before if a hard session planned, and a porridge or muesli breakfast for a big day.

    I’m guessing I should be treating my gym sessions like a hard session on the bike and having a banana or something beforehand? I’m assuming this helps with the max weight you can push? (I’m aiming for low reps/high weight type stuff to help on the bike).

    There’s the small matter of convenience as I want to be up and at the gym early so grabbing something quick (or nothing at all) is easiest.

    Ta

    Premier Icon johndoh
    Free Member

    There is no right or wrong – personally I never eat before anything but the hardest morning session (for me, running more than about 10 miles). Anything less and I’ll just get up and do it. Saying that, my wife constantly bollocks me for not eating / drinking properly.

    Premier Icon robbo1234biking
    Full Member

    Put some energy powder mix in your gym drink perhaps? Minimises the energy deficit but can be done the night before and in your bag ready to go. Might not make a huge difference to the workout but might make you less hungry and suffer less.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    I just think its down to individual preference, just figure out what works for you by trial and error.

    Premier Icon grantyboy
    Free Member

    fuel the night before if it’s a big session. I was fasted then started pushing big weights for me, needed to make sure I was properly fueled night before otherwise I’d fail in the sets

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    OK good stuff, no major consensus so I’ll continue with trial and error for now. I certainly don’t feel weak or especially ravenous when I get back, a good bowl of porridge AFTER workouts and I feel fine.

    As it is I’m still being verrrrrrry careful as I increase my weights so I can probably get away with fasted for a good few sessions yet, it’s good form and a couple of lingering tweaks/injuries that are holding me back, not strength.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    I don’t feel eating a banana beforehand will make any difference for a relatively short gym session so as above fuelling adequately the night before is more important. Eating afterwards is also very important if you actually want to see any benefit!

    Premier Icon Robz
    Full Member

    It really depends on how hard and for how long you will be training and what you’re trying to achieve?

    Are you trying to lose weight, get strong, build muscle?

    Why are you training fasted? If I was looking to get the maximum impact out of a strength session I would be eating something, even just a banana and a protein shake about 30 mins prior to training.

    Remember to factor in protein as well as carbs post-exercise to aid your recovery too.

    Premier Icon oikeith
    Full Member

    I used to do a 10 mile cycle commute or a gym leg workout without having breakfast, like others have said, if I ate well the night before I was okay.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    Eating afterwards is also very important if you actually want to see any benefit!

    Very little evidence that protein after weights makes any different, it’s just protein in the total diet that seems to count.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2mYZ3nS]Protein timing[/url] by Ben Freeman, on Flickr

    https://www.facebook.com/StrengthandConditioningResearch

    https://www.patreon.com/SandCResearch/posts

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Why are you training fasted?

    Mainly convenience and because I like it, although a lot of it might have come from my pathetic attempts at early morning runs where I didn’t eat in order to try and avoid stitches.

    I’m also trying to lose weight BUT am well aware that training fasted has been debunked as a weight loss technique. That said, if I think the workout won’t require fuelling (e.g. an hour of Z2 on the rollers) then I won’t eat.

    I think I’ll go with the current plan e.g. continue early morning workouts without eating, until I start really pushing the weight then I’ll maybe have a banana or something.

    An 85kg guy squatting 30kg probably doesn’t need much additional fuelling… 😂

    Premier Icon reeksy
    Free Member

    I read some genuine research somewhere in the last year or so that said men performed better fasted and women did better with food…

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    Very little evidence that protein after weights makes any different, it’s just protein in the total diet that seems to count.

    who’s talking about just protein? (although any meal should be balanced therefore you’ll be consuming some anyway.) Post-workout is the time for simple carbs to replenish glycogen quickly!

    Premier Icon toby1
    Free Member

    An 85kg guy squatting 30kg

    Careful now ;P

    I jest as you are starting out and taking it slowly/sensibly. to be honest if you are feeling it and following good form then good on you 🙂

    I tend to find hard carido I feel rough if I eat too soon before, weights, I can eat 30 mins before and not suffer much, however, add in a conditioning intense exercise and I feel grim, as a result I dropped the conditioning! This is not wisdom, merely laziness talking.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    An 85kg guy squatting 30kg probably doesn’t need much additional fuelling…

    Would depend how many reps, 5×5 maybe not, but 6×30 would be a very different workout…

    Premier Icon sc-xc
    Full Member

    For 9 months or so my weekday routine has been

    4.30 get up, coffee and a poo
    5-6 weights (pull/push/legs/pull/push)
    6-6.30 5k run on treadmill
    6.45-7.15 yoga with Adrienne (swoon)
    7.30 eat

    I much prefer to train before eating, but as others have said – work out what feels best for you.

    Premier Icon ahsat
    Full Member

    and women did better with food…

    From my sample of 1, I can believe this. I honestly couldn’t leave the house without something to eat, even if it just to go to my garage gym. Let alone pick up a weight! But I do suffer from blood sugar crashes (not diabetic, a genetic thing apparently). Whereas my brother doesn’t have the same problem and can gym, and then eat.

    As a result, whatever works for you.

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Full Member

    Pre-COVID and Garage Gym, I used to train at about 0600 at a gym 10 mins from my house.

    I used to have a water bottle either with some preworkout or a eloctrolyte+caffeine tab in it and drink half before and then sip the rest during my workout.

    I could never stomach food that early and coffee would mean needing a poo halfway through my workout.

    I would eat immediately after training but that was down to routine more than anything else.

    I would try fasted first and see how you go, but keep a snack in your gym bag.

    If you are used to training in the afternoon or evening, do not be surprised if you see your weights drop a bit as it takes a while for your CNS to wake up.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    as it takes a while for your CNS to wake up.

    Cycling is very good at tiring out the CNS, far more so than lifting weight (even max effort dead lifts)!

    CNS fatigue is greatest after long duration low intensity activity, which I think is quite counter intuitive.

    Premier Icon lunge
    Full Member

    I don’t, and indeed wouldn’t, albeit I’m doing a different kind of exercise.
    My morning runs/rides of up to 2 hours ish are all done on no food, an espresso and some water. I may take a gel for emergencies but rarely use it.
    It does depend on the intensity to a degree. I’d not race a half marathon (90 mins ish) on empty, but I’d do a slow training run of the same distance (2 hours ish).
    For what you’re.

    I’m also intrigued why high weight/low rep is better than high rep/low weight for work to translate to cycling, but that’s a different discussion.

    Premier Icon oikeith
    Full Member

    An 85kg guy squatting 30kg probably doesn’t need much additional fuelling

    awkward, I now go on my lunch and this was my lunchtime work out…

    Premier Icon colp
    Full Member

    For 9 months or so my weekday routine has been

    4.30 get up, coffee and a poo
    5-6 weights (pull/push/legs/pull/push)
    6-6.30 5k run on treadmill
    6.45-7.15 yoga with Adrienne (swoon)
    7.30 eat

    Jesus! You are Mark Wahlberg and I claim my £5

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    Fasted training for me worked well as a tool, to help me get better at utilising fat (or so it felt) but it was rubbish for adding speed as I couldn’t ride near my top end so it didn’t get trained.

    Very useful training tool but not when done exclusively, for me. I’m genetically a sprinter and have a lot of type II muscle so I need carbs to make them go.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    For 9 months or so my weekday routine has been

    4.30 get up,

    You’ve totally lost me…

    Jesus! You are Mark Wahlberg and I claim my £5

    He’s missing the 3 hour prayer / self reflection session…..

    Premier Icon sc-xc
    Full Member

    Ha ha, I have to take my daughter to her mates to get to school at 7.40, then shower and work from home from about 8.15. If I didn’t get it done in the morning it just wouldn’t happen.

    I’m into the routine so wake up before the alarm, mind you I’m in bed by 9.30 latest on a weekday.

    There are regularly 5 of us at 5am in the gym, it’s good to know that it’ll be noticed if you don’t show up!

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    I’m also intrigued why high weight/low rep is better than high rep/low weight for work to translate to cycling, but that’s a different discussion.

    Because Dylan Johnson said so 😉 (check him out on Youtube, I have no idea if he’s ‘right’ but he references lots of scientific stuff and wins races so it’s good enough for me).

    There are regularly 5 of us at 5am in the gym, it’s good to know that it’ll be noticed if you don’t show up!

    My gym doesn’t open till 7am, I have time to snooze the alarm, coffee, some mobility stuff, a quick spin on the rollers and a 20 minute walk to get there 🙄

    Premier Icon MrOvershoot
    Full Member

    sc-xc

    For 9 months or so my weekday routine has been

    4.30 get up, coffee and a poo
    5-6 weights (pull/push/legs/pull/push)
    6-6.30 5k run on treadmill
    6.45-7.15 yoga with Adrienne (swoon)
    7.30 eat

    For 26 years my weekday routine has been

    6:30 get up, wash hair and possible poo

    6:45 Toast & Coffee (panic poo if coffee has done its work)

    7:10 leave for work

    7:40—45 get to work and monumental turn out poo in trap 2

    Rest of day poo as required. (Bonus of a work poo is its paid and not my bog paper 😉  )

    But as of April this year who knows 😀

    Premier Icon FB-ATB
    Full Member

    6:30 get up, wash hair and possible poo

    you only wash your hair?

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Full Member

    For 9 months or so my weekday routine has been

    4.30 get up, coffee and a poo
    5-6 weights (pull/push/legs/pull/push)
    6-6.30 5k run on treadmill
    6.45-7.15 yoga with Adrienne (swoon)
    7.30 eat

    Wow… that’s impressive dedication !!!

    Premier Icon oikeith
    Full Member

    I’m also intrigued why high weight/low rep is better than high rep/low weight for work to translate to cycling, but that’s a different discussion.

    I saw videos from Aaron Gwin and a video featuring Remy and they both landed on 8 reps – 4 sets, isnt that high, but it isnt one rep max low!

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    I’m also intrigued why high weight/low rep is better than high rep/low weight for work to translate to cycling, but that’s a different discussion.

    If you want more absolute strength in your legs then you need to train for that which means recruiting high threshold motor units which means lifting very heavy weights for you.

    If you do high rep / low weight training you won’t increase strength as you’re never going to activate any high threshold motor units (as they’re not needed at low weights). You’re only using your endurance motor threshold units which you use all the time and aren’t going to be stressed enough to trigger hypertrophy etc.

    Muscles are stunning complex things eg a single hand muscle might contain 40,500 muscle fibes innervated by 120 motor neurons.

    They don’t all fire at once, the muscle fibres are grouped, by motor neuron, into sets: the majority will be type 1 muscle fibres (maybe 50% fibres, 100 ish neurons) which form the low threshold motor units, these always activate first and get used all the time. They don’t exhibit much hypertrophy as they’re never stressed.

    If you try and do something which the low threshold motor units can’t hanlde, and your CNS is up for it, then your brain will call on the higher threshold motor units neurons, typically 45% will be Typle IIA (45% muscles fibres, maybe 100 ish motor neurons).

    If this still isn’t enough and you’re CNS is really fresh, you might activate the top end neurons (5%) which control the type IIX fibres (5% muscle fibres but maybe only 2 neurons at this level).

    It’s the higher threshold muscle fibres which experience hypertrophy, so if you want strength gains you have to activate those, which means you need to lift weights which exceed the capability of the low threshold motor neurons.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2mZ6Bvz]Muscle motor unit info[/url] by Ben Freeman, on Flickr

    Premier Icon chrishc777
    Free Member

    I’m also intrigued why high weight/low rep is better than high rep/low weight for work to translate to cycling, but that’s a different discussion.

    I’ve seen night & day changes in strength from going to varying sets each week

    Week 1: 25-30 reps per set
    Week 2: 11-14 reps per set
    Week 3: 18-21 reps per set
    Week 4: 8-10 reps per set
    Week 5: 13-16 reps per set
    Week 6: 2-5 reps per set

    I’ll fail before the end some times and do an extra couple reps other times but that’s the basic idea, old school Arnie “shock the muscle” style. The 30 rep weeks are the hardest, no matter how much I reduce weight and how heavy I lift on the 5 rep weeks

    Probably won’t work for everyone but for me it’s the way to go

    And to answer the OP I do this at lunchtime, fasted except a protein shake at 7AM, and that’s only because I’ll be training in the MMA gym until 9PM

    Premier Icon johnx2
    Free Member

    4.30 get up, coffee and a poo
    5-6 weights (pull/push/legs/pull/push)
    6-6.30 5k run on treadmill
    6.45-7.15 yoga with Adrienne (swoon)
    7.30 eat

    For 26 years my weekday routine has been

    6:30 get up, wash hair and possible poo

    6:45 Toast & Coffee (panic poo if coffee has done its work)

    7:10 leave for work

    7:40—45 get to work and monumental turn out poo in trap 2

    Rest of day poo as required. (Bonus of a work poo is its paid and not my bog paper 😉 )

    My routine:

    7:45 – get out of bed, as Thought for the Day comes on.

    er, that’s it.

    On working out etc, I need a big breakfast before I can contemplate contemplating anything. Prefer to exercise in the afternoon/evening, and to do so fueled before, ideally during and certainly after. I can get going earlier in the day if I have to but needs to be for surf or a proper ride where others are forcing me to get up, never for training. My wife on the other hand goes to the gym early and unbreakfasted as she’s into this eat in a time window thing, which clearly works for her. But I’ve got much bigger muscles.

    Premier Icon twinw4ll
    Free Member

    Training early morning is a risk because you are statistically more likely to have a heart attack, i never lift heavy before 10am and hydrate and fuel up well before. The most important thing is to find your weaknesses and train them, unlike most gym goers who find what they’re good at then train that even more.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    Training early morning is a risk because you are statistically more likely to have a heart attack

    Completely meaningless unless you state the absolute risk before and after.

    E.g. if it’s 1 in 10 million chance of having a heart attack per day, say doubled to 1 in 5 million (by training in the morning), you’re still more likely to get run over walking to the gym.

    Plus, gym work will decrease your absolute chance of dying from a heart attack (even if you train in the morning), so training in the morning might reduce your absolute risk….

    Premier Icon scud
    Full Member

    Keep my weight training simple, 3 sessions a week, 2 sessions of heavy 4-5 sets of 5 reps, then a third session of higher rep work.

    For fuelling make overnight oats night before, 50g of oats, one scoop of protein powder (i like the new Huel one as no sugar) and 150ml of almond milk, can add yoghurt, fruit whatever on top. Gives 40g of quality carbs and 25g of protein, low GI and works for me, pint of water first thing and a strong black offer to.

    Tend to keep the two heavier sessions as just the basic compound exercises, no messing about with bicep curls etc

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Training early morning is a risk because you are statistically more likely to have a heart attack, i never lift heavy before 10am and hydrate and fuel up well before.

    Yes but are you training proper, power-lifter heavy, or just ‘cyclist trying to overcome back problems’ heavy?

    My physio was telling me about his biggest lift and it required spending most of the day hydrating and eating (5000kCal and some ridiculous amount of water) just because there was so much muscle to fuel and hydrate!

    Felt pleasingly tired after yesterday’s fasted AM session, but also got very hungry towards the end of the day, unhelpfully so (eating the cooking chocolate from the back of the cupboard hungry <why’s there no embarassed smiley>). Perhaps reason enough to at least have a banana beforehand.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    Yes but are you training proper, power-lifter heavy, or just ‘cyclist trying to overcome back problems’ heavy?

    Doesn’t really matter, IIRC there is a slightly higher chance of having a heart attack in the morning period, so training in the morning also carries a slightly elevated risk.

    However, that’s relative risk – the absolute risk eg 1 in a million is still very small and is made smaller by training.

    Premier Icon Blackflag
    Free Member

    Sleep till 8.30,
    Work at home in pyjamas till noon.
    Lunch.
    Work in actual clothes till 5.
    Eat Tea at 6.30
    Open wine and watch telly.
    Go to sleep again at 11.

    Household chores and bike rides at the weekend.

    Premier Icon chrishc777
    Free Member

    Blackflag
    Full Member
    Sleep till 8.30,
    Work at home in pyjamas till noon.
    Lunch.
    Work in actual clothes till 5.
    Eat Tea at 6.30
    Open wine and watch telly.
    Go to sleep again at 11.

    Household chores and bike rides at the weekend.

    Is that the ‘Live slow, die young’ routine? 😀

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 57 total)

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