I wonder why it’s possible to buy a new Vertigo R3 trials bike, with all the trickness you could ever want, for £7,750 when plenty of e-mtb’s will set you back more than this?
I mean, not only are you getting a fuel-injected, state of the art engine but also suspension that must be better than anything on any e-mtb, quality wheels, brakes, tyres – all of this and all the CNC, red ano prettiness that anyone (well, me at least) could desire.
We’re being shafted here, or I can’t help but think that anyway….

http://vertigomotors.com/en/our-bikes/

I bought mine for just over 3k – Focus jam2.
I’ll happily do the local big jumps on it.

You don’t need to spend 15k.

Can you ride that at trail centres or on the road to the trails?

How much does it weigh?

How much per year does it cost to run?

“ not only are you getting a fuel-injected, state of the art engine”

Does that cost more than an electric motor, batteries and all the electronics? Electric cars seem pretty expensive.

“also suspension that must be better than anything on any e-mtb, quality wheels, brakes, tyres”

Is the suspension better? Might be, might be not. It’s certainly heavier and making things light costs money.

Can you ride that at trail centres or on the road to the trails?

You can ride a trials bike on the road, just needs a rudimentary speedo, numberplate, and brake light/reflector. It’s probably more legal than your average MTB (how many of us have the full complement of legally mandated reflectors?).

Trails and trail centers……. yes you can ride a restricted e-bike in most places. But how many dicks are pushing the limits of dickishness with derestricted bikes, Sur Ron’s, and whatnot? The legality of the things is often a tenuous concept. There’s an unfortunate element of entitlement among MTBers, and e-bikes seem to bring out the worst of it 🤷‍♂️

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202011035726360?advertising-location=at_bikes&year-from=new&price-to=13000&newCarHasDeal=on&postcode=NG31%209TL&page=4&price-from=11000&include-delivery-option=on&sort=sponsored
Brand new 110hp Ducatti for less than that Specialized everyone is on about.
.

Brand new 110hp Ducatti for less than that Specialized everyone is on about

They even chuck in a second front brake. Bargain!

Brand new 110hp Ducatti for less than that Specialized everyone is on about.

More comparable perhaps, the Africa Twin.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/201911294865397?

When you buy your new Vertigo R3 Trials bike let me know what it’s like to ride at FOD, BPW or on any of your loved MTB trails.

Joking aside, it’s probably due to economy of scale.

Good christ, is that Ducati real? I saw a picture before and assumed it was someone’s horrible photoshop. To think we used to say the 999 was ugly.

Those Africa Twins make me happy!!!! 😎😎

According to my mate who rides trials, the Vertigo is the Levo of trials bikes; style over reliability.

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tomhoward
Full Member

Can you ride that at trail centres or on the road to the trails?

How much does it weigh?

How much per year does it cost to run?

I’d be willing to bet (a lot) that the running costs would be considerably less than an e-mtb. How much does it weigh? 68kgs, which is not a lot. And yes, I could ride it on the road -it’s a trials bike so, that’s not an issue.
The issue is that these days there are fewer and fewer venues available for practice and for competitions and more and more people only too happy to report “illegal” riding, unlike thirty or forty years ago when I, and everyone else, rode trials bikes everywhere that we now are restricted to bicycles.
The irony isn’t lost on me as I was out today on my e-mtb and half of that was on “illegal” trails – there are no trail centres here, btw, and I probably wouldn’t be frequenting them if there were.

Anyway, enough of this – what I was comparing is quality of the hardware and technology versus the retail price/value for money. I know which is the winner in my book – if I lived in my virtual utopia (although the Isle of Man forty years ago would do) I know that I wouldn’t be bothering with e-mtbs of questionable reliability and robustness.
But then once a trials rider, always a trials rider, I suppose.

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doomanic
Full Member

According to my mate who rides trials, the Vertigo is the Levo of trials bikes; style over reliability.

Probably a fair comparison, I suppose – I just used it as a comparison because I was idly browsing t’interwebs (as you do) and couldn’t help comparing the price to that of the 2021 Levo.
There are some nice details with the Vertigo though – airbox where it’s furthest away from water, fuel tank low down to drop the COG – probably too much technology though (fuel injection).
I’d still give one houseroom though.

My thing with ebikes is they are going through change after change at the moment each development cycle superseding the last. That means the motor/ battery heart of the system will be out of date in a year then in all probability not supported in two or three leaving me out of luck with a 50lbs door stop! The manufacturers are cutting warranty times down so what was four years on motor & battery now two….that’s a concern.

I’d love an ebike, knocking out Borrowdale bash in a morning or doing two quick Laps of the southern red at Whinlatter after work (with out being destroyed!!) is a brilliant thought. But part of me wants to be fit enough to do that on my “own” and a 5-6k bike isn’t really an option for me, especially if it’s a two year life span!

The manufacturers are cutting warranty times down so what was four years on motor & battery now two….that’s a concern.

It’s also rubbish.

Warranty has always been two years until Spesh increased the warranty to 4 years for 19/20 MY Levos and 20 MY Kenevos because of the high number of motor failures. 2021 MY Levo and Kenevo are back to 2 years because Spesh have “fixed” the issue. Except they haven’t. That’s the motor that’s designated 2.2 in the gen 3 Levo just released.

Bosch offer a rolling 2 year warranty on motors and batteries.

Shimano is fixed at 2 years.

The quarry across the toad from where I live has some really nice e-mx bikes in it at times

You look at their bikes and what eMTB’s are and you just know mtb’rs are being ripped off.

But then that’s the reason , supply and demand. Many more people want to ride eMTB’s than eMX . They can charge what they can get away with

I’d be willing to bet (a lot) that the running costs would be considerably less than an e-mtb.

I don’t just mean direct costs. Will it fit in a car?

How much does it weigh? 68kgs, which is not a lot.

It’s 3 (and a bit) ebikes

And yes, I could ride it on the road -it’s a trials bike so, that’s not an issue.

Legally, without a license, tax and insurance?

Are there any other, totally unrelated things we can compare the most expensive ebikes to? Horses? A season of karting?

Yeah that’s exactly my concern @doomanic.

Are there any other, totally unrelated things we can compare the most expensive ebikes to? Horses? A season of karting?

It’s not a totally unrelated thing though, is it? It’s an off-road machine, with two wheels and an engine/motor.

I have seen trials bikes carried in cars, actually – but, more realistically, you could carry it on a towbar mounted carrier (like plenty of people do with mtb’s)…It would certainly fit in my van, like my bikes do.
No, you couldn’t ride it on the road without tax and insurance, not legally at least, but that’s a whole different matter and who cares if it weighs three times as much as an e-mtb? You’ve got a real engine to power it and it’d get you places (if you have the skills) that no e-mtb on earth will.

But I wasn’t really comparing the virtues of one versus the other, rather what you or I actually get for our money.
And I stand by which I think is the better value.

But then once a trials rider, always a trials rider, I suppose.

Another one here!

If I had a spare 7K lying around, somewhere to ride it & somewhere to keep it I’d have a trials bike tomorrow over an Emtb.

My last brand new trials bike was £850 back in the late 80’s, wish I still had it!

I have seen trials bikes carried in cars, actually

My mate took his sons 300 Gasser up to Fort William in a Citroen Picasso, along with all the gear to ride the SSDT!

We’re being shafted here

Who’s this ‘we’?

I’d have a moto enduro in a heartbeat if there was as many places to ride it within an hour or so as there are for my eeb.

Surely if every high-end e-bike was such a rip-off, someone with a bit of financial backing could come in and sell an equivalent spec bike for £1500, no? 🤔

I mean, not only are you getting a fuel-injected, state of the art engine but also suspension that must be better than anything on any e-mtb, quality wheels, brakes, tyres

Hmmmm… I’m not familiar with the Trials world, but know a few people that race MX at a decent level… The £8500 or whatever they are now purchase price for the latest model year KTM/Honda MX bike is just the starting point… They will then spend the purchase price of the bike AGAIN just upgrading the suspension and getting the engine tuned to be competitive…

The stock suspension on a Trials/MX bike will feel better than stock suspension on an MTB because of a much higher sprung/unsprung ratio… That’s it! Once you get into it, you’ll find there’s a lot more scope for spending on high end kit with motorbikes…

Put it this way… Guy I knew (sadly died of Heart Attack last summer) was funding his lad’s MX career (the lad can ride to be fair!)… Everything I’ve listed above, you can double it at least (spare bike necessary at the levels he was racing at) and then add countless thousands extra for consumables and other fees just to be able to practice etc! He viewed MTBing even with very choice equipment, as a cheap hobby by comparison!!!

I know people that spend £6k+ on a fishing pole for comparison… A single fishing pole! And they’ll have a few too… 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’d have a moto enduro in a heartbeat if there was as many places to ride it within an hour or so as there are for my eeb.

Likewise… I’ve done 3 experience days with Ady Smith now, absolutely hooked! Nowhere to use one though in reality…

A friend manages the track @ Apex MX, he keeps trying to get me to go along and have a go, even volunteering his own bike. Problem is, it’s one thing riding an Enduro bike wheels mostly on the ground, it’s a whole different ball game piloting an MX bike around a national level track!

Are there any other, totally unrelated things we can compare the most expensive ebikes to? Horses? A season of karting?

Hopefully I’ve helped a little in my previous post… Shout up if you’d like me to divulge further… 😉

Apex is just down the road from me and looks like epic fun but possibly a bit big for a relative novice. I haven’t ridden an MX bike for over 30 years or a motorbike of any kind for 15.

Oh well – obviously I’m talking through my ass as usual then…
It’s funny though how some of the comments here completely miss the point of what I was originally saying, re. value for money.

And I was a fairly decent trials rider and never felt the the need to spend a shed load of money to make a stock bike competitive – in 99% of cases the rider is the limiting factor – you learn that very quickly.

I’m in a bad mood as I’m going through some issues at work, so take this with a pinch of salt. This said…

Prices for MTB’s and parts at the moment is nuts. I know the comparison to motorbikes has been done many times before and I’m not adverse to spending money on push bikes, but when I can upgrade the forks on my Ducati to pretty much top spec Ohlins for similar money to putting a set of factory 36’s on my MTB, there’s something wrong somewhere. Yes you can buy the cheaper ones but that’s not the point. So much so, that’s what I’ve done and I’ll stick with the shit forks on my MTB.

I’ve got a sort of mate who used to ride for KTM, sponsored by Red bull, the full shebang. Would race in Mx2 at international level and he said that what they do to the race bikes doesn’t make a huge difference, especially when it comes to engine tuning. He felt he could be competitive on a stock bike, certainly at British nationals and had done when one of his bikes was delayed coming back from Poland. So that’s a competitive mx bike or a middle of the road ebike for the same money.

I recently sold my triumph street triple, tidy bike with low miles and a decent spec. Motorbikes at the moment are also seeing an increase in price but for the money I sold it for (which was definitely on the high end of what it was worth) I could have got a full sus emtb with 35’s and SX on it. Even a normal MTB would only come with bottom end Pikes.

As far as I’m concerned, the cycling industry can do one. I point blank refuse to buy shit products at inflated prices that once bought will be worth bugger all second hand. It’s got that bad recently that I’ve considered taking up running and I ‘kin hate running.

Apex is just down the road from me and looks like epic fun but possibly a bit big for a relative novice. I haven’t ridden an MX bike for over 30 years or a motorbike of any kind for 15.

Where are you based? Worcester lad here… 👍🏻

It’s got that bad recently that I’ve considered taking up running and I ‘kin hate running.

Just started here (for different reasons mind)… I ‘kin hate it too, but in 25mins door to door, I’ve killed myself and probably burnt as many calories as I would do in 1.5-2hrs on a bike! 🤷🏻‍♂️

I mention the calorie thing because to me, at the moment, unfortunately that has become a prime consideration… Running is getting me out of the house 2/3 nights a week where cycling wasn’t, I’ll still be doing decent (fun!) MTB rides at the weekend when I can.

I’m in Evesham.

I also hate running but C25K was instrumental in me losing 35kg last year.

when I can upgrade the forks on my Ducati to pretty much top spec Ohlins for similar money to putting a set of factory 36’s on my MTB, there’s something wrong somewhere.

I don’t know why people assume that bike stuff should automatically be cheaper than motorbike stuff. High-end forks require expensive factory equipment and skilled workers. The number of precision components in MTB forks will be similar to motorbike forks. That’s what will drive most of the cost. Motorbikes are also much more powerful so there is less pressure to shave every last gram off of components. Making stuff lightweight is very expensive.

Of course, the pandemic has brought on supply shortages, but I think the effect of that is more that you have to pay full retail price rather than prices being jacked up artificially.

Are there any other, totally unrelated things we can compare the most expensive ebikes to? Horses? A season of karting?

Nothing gets near the cost of running a horse IME, as cars/bikes etc cost nothing (ignoring purchase price) when they’re parked up. My OH’s horse costs near enough £150 a week, even if she never rides him.

If I wanted an eBike I wouldn’t care what it cost in relationship to something else, because I don’t want something else, I want an eBike. As it is, for the price of a ‘decent’ eBike I’ve actually got 4 bikes (FS, HT, gravel * 2) 🙂

I also hate running but C25K was instrumental in me losing 35kg last year.

Bloody hell, that’s nearly half my body weight, and I’m 6’2″ – what are you down to?

It’s funny though how some of the comments here completely miss the point of what I was originally saying, re. value for money.

What are you basing the value on. Why is a motorbike or a car better value than a bike for same cost. You are getting a low/very low end car for same price as a very high end bike.
Is the car better value because you think you are getting more? (loads of parts which are mass produced to a low cost due to cheap materials)

A high end bike (£10,000) should be compared to a high end car (£300,000) if you care comparing the two otherwise any comparison is pointless.

A car may be better value to YOU if you need a cheap car as an essential, a high end bike may be better VALUE to me if I love cycling and want the best I can get.

Have you seen the prices of some watches? 100k plus! My phone tells me the time for free. You can’t even ride a watch down a trail. Madness.

Bloody hell, that’s nearly half my body weight, and I’m 6’2″ – what are you down to?

I got down to 82.6 before my dad died in September and I’ve put 10 back on since then from comfort eating, depression and lack of exercise. I’m aiming for 78kg when I can get started on the diet again and the gyms re-open next month. I’m 5’9″ (and a quarter).

You need to eat some pies.

Nothing gets near the cost of running a horse IME

Truth.

I’m 5’9″ (and a quarter).

You need to eat some pies.

I eat like a horse, always have – makes no difference to me – lucky lad.

Streuth – 18.5 stone at 5’9″ – good work getting that down, and aiming at 12 stone – wish you luck.

I’m surprised so many people are happy with the cost. Even at the lower end, it seems to be an extra 2k to add the 250w motor/630wh battery.

https://vitusbikes.com/collections/sommet/products/vitus-sommet-27-crs-mountain-bike
https://vitusbikes.com/collections/e-sommet/products/vitus-e-sommet-27-vrs-mountain-bike

I guess Specialized is more like 3k for the newest one?

This seems too much given the low power (relative to other ‘powered’ transport options), short range, 2 year warranty and lack of spaces/serviceable parts. The manufacturers seem to be pushing them hard too (e.g. the sponsored eMTB sessioning story on the stw front page). Maybe that’s where all the moneys going??