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E-cigarettes can be key weapon against smoking, say MPs
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cupoteaFull Member
Does it really come down to much more than tobacco money pulling the strings in the background? The battle may be lost for them cigarette wise, but the war of rinsing people for money regardless of any moral cost is far from over. It’s a bright new future of addiction! It reminds me of Yes Prime Minister.
binnersFull MemberRinsing people for money? Jesus! What planet do you live on?
My ‘habit’ costs me approximately a fiver a week. I can usually spend more per week on crisps.
The 20 Bensons I used to smoke every day are now over a tenner a pop.
Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...anagallis_arvensisFull MemberMy ‘habit’ costs me approximately a fiver a week. I can usually spend more per week on crisps.
The 20 Bensons I used to smoke every day are now over a tenner a pop.
Most of the tenner is tax and yet tobacco companies make money so your point might not be valid.
stevextcFree MemberStevextc, just noticed your comments about Baku on the other thread. Without any knowledge about you and just putting it out there, my brother used to drink like you talk about going dry when on rigs etc and he died in Baku due to the drinking. Glad to here your ways have changed.
Thanks… I don’t see me ever going back to that amount of drinking unless I’m ready to die.
Sorry to hear about your brother though. There is a lot of pressure in certain industries be it drinking or snorting coke…. and the pressure is both tangible and implied.
A lot of it came down to boredom…. on rotation… most of your mates are working and the people you know that aren’t are drinking along with camps etc. where the pastime is making alcohol. I know quite a few of my ex-colleagues who have passed away prematurely and I suspect drink has been a big factor for many.
I don’t think this was that different in the old day’s of DH with Warner and Peaty and Co….
However specific to Baku I was invited out with some Russians for a meal… I got pressure from my big manager to go and had no intention of drinking as much as the Russians were going to drink… so I just told him I was on antibiotics… but mostly now I just don’t have the lifestyle I had.
My manager was ill for 2 days….
binnersFull MemberReducing my costs from seventy dabs a week to five, while improving my health and general well-being isn’t exactly leaving me feeling like I’m being ruthlessly exploited by an evil capitalist conspiracy, to be honest. 😂
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberReducing my costs from seventy dabs a week to five, while improving my health and general well-being isn’t exactly leaving me feeling like I’m being ruthlessly exploited by an evil capitalist conspiracy, to be honest.
Which has exactly nothing to do with what the poster was talking about.
binnersFull MemberI suppose it cost me more if I could vape in the office and on public transport – I may get up to over a tenner a week – my present weekly sausage roll budget.
So maybe it is a ploy by evil parasitic corporate lobbyists after all?
The bastards!!
docgeoffyjonesFull MemberWe were sat at a table in an outdoor bar at the Fringe last week. Couple of “vapers” sat down next to us with that disgusting stuff blowing in our faces. Asked them politely to stop or move. Total refusal. Selfish sods.
No more selfish than expecting them to move.
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberMy ‘habit’ costs me approximately a fiver a week. I can usually spend more per week on crisps.
The 20 Bensons I used to smoke every day are now over a tenner a pop.
Think of it the other way around though, about 82% of cigaret price is tax (according to some TMA bumf on google)
£5 a week is £4 of product and £1 of VAT (or maybe £3 of product and some corporation tax, business rates etc, I’ve no idea what the tobaco companies included in their 82%).
Anyway the point is, the vaping companies would REALLY like their products to be viewed as an aid to quitting smoking to avoid their £3/week product becoming a £15/week product, or a £10/day product if it were taxed in line with other “expensive things we wish you’d use a bit less of” by the government like petrol and beer.
cornholio98Free MemberReducing my costs from seventy dabs a week to five, while improving my health and general well-being isn’t exactly leaving me feeling like I’m being ruthlessly exploited by an evil capitalist conspiracy, to be honest
Which has exactly nothing to do with what the poster was talking about.
Imo it has everything to do with the op. There is a gap in revenue due to cig sales/taxes dropping, so mps are looking for another cash crop. Encourage vaping get more people hooked then jack the tax. The next stage is to propose an over the counter drug that will not be supplied by nhs to combat this addiction…follow the money…
the current rules are fine for the most part and do not need to be relaxed.
mikewsmithFree MemberThere is a gap in revenue due to cig sales/taxes dropping, so mps are looking for another cash crop.
Goes against all strategic health advice. This is one where the industry has outpaced the regulations.and they are playing catch up. The long term impact of tobacco will be haunting the tax payer for years to come
stevextcFree MemberDoes it really come down to much more than tobacco money pulling the strings in the background?
Probably not but then does it REALLY matter for those who are still smoking anyway?
mikewsmith: Goes against all strategic health advice.
Not really, I mean it would be good to ban fast food and stuff … a bit demolition man and salt.
Or they can try and reduce people’s dependence on tobacco or the harm it does.
The long term impact of tobacco will be haunting the tax payer for years to come
Not to mention their widows, widowers, children etc. but a far healthier alternative is possible, even quite easy if people .. the last of a dying breed as it were do want to swap for vaping without creating a whole black market of smuggled or home made tobacco.
vickypeaFree MemberSome people are taking this discussion a bit off piste with tit for tat about whether it smells bad or not.
I thought it was meant to be about whether it is irresponsible of the government to recommend that vaping should be more aggressively marketed and encouraged given the current lack of long-term health data?
No one is disagreeing that it’s significantly less harmful than smoking, and unlike passive smoking, there are probably no health issues for “passive vapers”. Nevertheless, I think the government should be more cautious until there are more data.
binnersFull MemberMe and my mates all used to smoke. Now none of us does. We’ve all packed in using e-cigs. So my own anecdotal evidence is that it’s a massive aid to packing in smoking. We’d all tried and failed repeatedly before
And to those of you complaining about people smoking or vaping in pub beer gardens, I’d just like to remind you that we earned that right, man!
You weren’t sat in that beer garden in January when it was -6! You weren’t huddled on that picnic bench in horizontal sleet in March! You were inside, dry and warm enjoying your smoke free pint!
So to quote Morrisey….
You just haven’t earned it yet, baby!
😛
kerleyFree MemberI thought it was meant to be about whether it is irresponsible of the government to recommend that vaping should be more aggressively marketed
The answer to that should always be no. A government should never encourage people to get addicted to something. Whether it is moving from one addictive thing to another doesn’t make it better.
binnersFull MemberI don’t think they’re talking about handing them out in schools. They’re talking about promoting it to smokers, through the NHS, as a means to pack in, thus saving squillions of pounds in treating the damage done further down the line.
Makes perfect sense to me. We could set up support groups in pub beer gardens
mikewsmithFree MemberI don’t think they’re talking about handing them out in schools. They’re talking about promoting it to smokers, through the NHS, as a means to pack in, thus saving squillions of pounds in treating the damage done further down the line.
And letting people use them in more places…. Seems like you like to suggest something worse then tell us it’s not that bad.
Happy to promote them to smokers, nice brown packet, simple lettering, no need for flags, billboards and commercial operations all over the place. If it’s a medical device then go with that.
binnersFull MemberHave you somehow missed the principles at the heart of an advanced capitalist society? 😉
if it’s legal, and so far not proved to be damaging, you can market it how you like, within the regulations.
If we start going down the road you’re advocating then before long the drug gangs in Laaaahndan will be killing each other in the street to control the Haribo supply.
A few of us have pointed out repeatedly that just because you don’t like something, that doesn’t mean the government has some moral duty to do something to stop it
mikewsmithFree MemberA few of us have pointed out repeatedly that just because you don’t like something, that doesn’t mean the government has some moral duty to do something to stop it
The government regulates many drugs and addictive substances. For control and for financial gain, It’s nothing new and uncommon. It also has restrictions on advertising on things like alcohol and gambling.
You have your nicotine addiction already, want to give that gift to more people?
Have you somehow missed the principles at the heart of an advanced capitalist society?
An advanced capitalist society regulates and protects people
vickypeaFree MemberNo one is saying that Vaping should be banned, but i believe it should not be promoted with messages like “it’s 95% safer than smoking” because that’s not been proven, and can’t be proven without a heck of a lot more data.
The article that I read did not suggest that the government propose to promote it “only to smokers, via the NHS”. If that’s the case then fine, but I’m not sure that is their intent.
binnersFull MemberIt’s not the Wild West! The EU put strict regulation on e-cigs a few years back, meaning that the shop I get my liquids from had to skip half their stock as the health warnings weren’t prominent enough
Its the main reason I voted for Brexit 😛
NorthwindFull MemberStrikes me that there’s a big difference between “using e-cigarettes to stop smoking” and “switching from fags to e-cigarettes”
According to the department of health, e-cigarettes contribute to 20000 “quits” every year, which is great. But there’s almost 3 million vapers. So it’s barely even a connection, statistically. I’ve no doubt that swapping 1 smoker for 1 vaper is likely to be a net health benefit but we’re swapping 1 smoker for 50 vapers at this point.
And besides, smoking rates have been crashing for years- vaping can’t be the lead factor in that, it pre-dates it.
So basically, should stopping people from smoking be an important part of the argument here? Seems like it should just be “is vaping OK or not” since the number of users is measured in millions and the number of stopped smokers is measured in thousands.
binnersFull MemberGot a link to those stats Northwind? Because ‘swapping 1 smoker for 50 vapers’ sounds more than a little bit dubious, to say the least.
bigfootFree Memberbinners, you need to find a better pub to drink in, no sitting outside in the cold for me, i can use my e-cig in the pub.
if its packed(very rare) or someone is sat close to me eating because the eating room is full i don’t but otherwise i will do.
binnersFull MemberBigfoot – I use my e-cig in my local, with no issues. I’m sure that to some that will make us the worst human beings on the planet.
I was just making the point that smokers and ex-smokers (who now vape instead) have suffered the frost-bite that entitles them to indulge on the 2 sunny days we get a year 😉
mooseFree MemberYou know what else would be a key weapon in helping people to quit? A **** tazer.
A quick zap every time they reach for a bine or their fruit-flavoured mouth dildo. If I wanted to walk through a cloud of fruit flavoured poor choices and spittle at the pub, I’d go to a **** LUSH store with a pint in hand when it’s rammed with single mums. Peace. 😉
binnersFull MemberNo… micropub. The flat roofed places still have ashtrays, like the smoking ban never happened..
meftyFree MemberGot a link to those stats Northwind? Because ‘swapping 1 smoker for 50 vapers’ sounds more than a little bit dubious, to say the least.
It is not a good comparison probably due to data collection. The 2.9 million figure comes from an ASH survey, it found 1.5 million of vapers are ex smokers and another 1.3 million are part smokers and part vapers, the remaining 100,000 is probably rounding and adopters who haven’t smoked.
NorthwindFull MemberHas stats for growth in vaping and links the Public Health England “20000 per year” which is how I derived the 50 new vapers for every quitter.
The 2.9 actually didn’t come from the ASH survey as Mefty says, but from the ONS’s Opinions and Lifestyle Survey- though it’s not surprising that they came to the same result.
(maybe worth noting that the ASH survey records only “ex smokers”, rather than people who’ve switched from fags to vaping. Anyone who’s ever smoked before, and stopped, and then started vaping will be in that stat too)
TurnerGuyFree MemberNo more selfish than expecting them to move.
so if I came and sat upwind from you in a beer garden and lit up some foul-smelling joss sticks so all the fumes went your way, then you would be OK with that ?
stevextcFree MemberStrikes me that there’s a big difference between “using e-cigarettes to stop smoking” and “switching from fags to e-cigarettes”
According to the department of health, e-cigarettes contribute to 20000 “quits” every year, which is great. But there’s almost 3 million vapers. So it’s barely even a connection, statistically. I’ve no doubt that swapping 1 smoker for 1 vaper is likely to be a net health benefit but we’re swapping 1 smoker for 50 vapers at this point.
And besides, smoking rates have been crashing for years- vaping can’t be the lead factor in that, it pre-dates it.
So basically, should stopping people from smoking be an important part of the argument here? Seems like it should just be “is vaping OK or not” since the number of users is measured in millions and the number of stopped smokers is measured in thousands.
As binders said, that looks extremely dubious
(maybe worth noting that the ASH survey records only “ex smokers”, rather than people who’ve switched from fags to vaping. Anyone who’s ever smoked before, and stopped, and then started vaping will be in that stat too)
ASH is ASH … it’s a political lobby with its own agenda and in conflict with many quit smoking organisations.
I know many people who vape… I don’t know a single one who started who wasn’t already a smoker. That’s not to say they don’t exist but I don’t know any.
I know lots of smokers who quit without vape or e-cigs or any other aid … well done!
I know some who used champix or similar … great but for some (and I have reason to believe it’s the group ho find it hardest to quit) the side effects are terrible.
Some used vape and/or e-cigs …and that’s what wokred for them
some Vape but still smoke 1-2 a day.. or when they can’t get the liquid
Some of all of them started again !
Some started vaping and still do and others then gave that up…nicotine is much less addictive than tobacco smoke.
All of these are successes, even if someone stops for a year or 5 years its better than not.
If someone goes from 20-30/d to 1-2/d it’s still a success though ASH wouldn’t treat it as such.
mikewsmithFree MemberAs binders said, that looks extremely dubious
OK, I get your well argued case there
I know many people who vape… I don’t know a single one who started who wasn’t already a smoker. That’s not to say they don’t exist but I don’t know any.
Your extensive research is admirable, it really sells the case. What is the name of your research organisation?
binnersFull MemberI think those ‘stats’ are just proof of the phrase about lies, damn lies and statistics.
They look like absolute cobblers to me.
As stated above, I know loads of people who vape. All have done so after using them to pack in the fags.
I’ve never met a single person who’s just got up one day and thought “that vaping lark looks great! I’ve never smoked but I reckon I need nicotine in my life, so I’ll give that a go!”
Has anyone else? Considering there are apparently millions of them out there….
mikewsmithFree MemberI think those ‘stats’ are just proof of the phrase about lies, damn lies and statistics.
They look like absolute cobblers to me.
The best way to prove that is with some better stats or research though.
binnersFull MemberYou could conduct your own Mike.
Next time you’re asking people to move away from you, or to stop vaping altogether, just tag on a question about why they started their filthy disgusting habit in the first place?
mikewsmithFree Memberand some classic lines in this ad piece
https://veppocig.com/non-smoker-vaping/
These guys are certainly interested in growing their market share
From 2017 –
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39523857
The Royal Society for Public Health (RSPH) said 87% of shops were knowingly or unwittingly prepared to sell e-cigarettes to people who have never smoked or vaped.
Just under half of the stores did not check whether the customers had smoked before, and three-quarters of those that did still encouraged non-smokers to start vaping, the RSPH claimed…
Footage from their investigation showed one retailer recommending a customer, who told him she did not smoke, choose a vaping liquid with 6mg nicotine content rather than 0mg.
He told her: “The nicotine does affect how much of like a hit you get at the back of your throat, so if you want a bit of that, I’d say go for a six.”
vickypeaFree MemberMillions of people made the decision to start smoking in the past, perhaps encouraged by advertising and widespread smoking in public places. Why wouldn’t the same happen with vaping if it was aggressively marketed and allowed in public places?
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