You’ve reached peak whataboutery TINAS! congratulations! 🙂

I used to be a smoker and finally beat my addiction with a E-Cig so can certainly see the benefit. I only used one for a month or so before packing the lot up. Problem is, rather than be a stop smoking aid it’s now become fashionable so the original point gets lost.

The one I used gave off very little vape and looked like a traditional tab. It’s primary function was to give the user a nicotine hit and that’s it. Great stuff and it worked + I doubt it caused anyone else any discomfort. I’d be all for those being aloud in more public areas. Those stupid things that make you look like you’re on fire should be kept out of the way of non users though, they stink and are anti-social. Why should they be any more acceptable than smokes?

if it’s helping folk get off the fags

Is it? It’s just transferring the addiction to a different ingestion method. There are no long term studies and because the chemical additives and equipment are unregulated there is a massive challenge to show harm or not. In reality ingesting addictive drugs through the mucus membrane in your lungs is always going to do harm, it’s just a question of magnitude. We have moved on from the days of cigarettes being offered by he doctor to help you cough out sickness.

i remember smoking on the underground in London and on aircraft and IMO vaping is just as antisocial.

Can’t say the smell of ecigs bothers my particularly despite never have tried or want to try using one. Plenty of food and BO smells on public transport and other public places that are far less palatable. I wouldn’t be bothered by them being allowed in public places. In a way it might help to dissociate them from actual smoking and smokers.

Is vaping more or less inconsiderate than wood burners?

perhaps we can use the same argument with cocaine, it’s 95% better for you than crack so should be encouraged and legalized 🙂

 I wouldn’t be bothered by them being allowed in public places. In a way it might help to dissociate them from actual smoking and smokers.

Why are we trying to dissociate them? It’s a nicotine delivery system, do you want that promoted to more people?

Is vaping more or less inconsiderate than wood burners?

Depends are you vaping in the middle of a crowd or in your own house? Are you living in the countryside with your wood burner or do you live in a city with a mains gas hook up and burn old pallets?

there is no fashion that cannot be turned dickish if you try hard enough…

Is it?

They didn’t say it *IS* they said *IF*

if it’s helping folk get off the fags

And I agree with that – anything to further reduce smoking-related deaths is a great idea, but just not in a public place (nor around children in your home) please. But as has been pointed out, the minute they become some kind of fashion statement a new addiction is potentially born. I believe there will be a time in the future when the risks associated with them will become clearer and people actively discouraged from using them.

It would be interesting to know the figures though (ie, ex-smokers converted to vapers and non-smokers regularly vaping).

EDIT; Found this statement use amongst never smokers remains very low from the ASH site

Currently e-cig users is estimated at 3% of the market (from the linked research paper)

You’ve reached peak whataboutery TINAS! congratulations!

You need to google a definition of whataboutery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Whataboutism is would be vapers saying  “yea, but, what about that time you got your dingaling out at Westfield Westgate” as a defence. Infact I’m the victim of whataboutism here!

Peak reductio ad absurdum would be valid.

Although I like Perchy’s idea of a spray bottle full of piss.

Although I like Perchy’s idea of a spray bottle full of piss.

Just a normal commute for me.

I don’t inhale it though. I’m not a madman.

😊

Not all vape smells btw. I do agree the strawberry varieties are very sickly smelling(they even taste as such, they’re horrible). You wouldn’t notice my sweet menthol though.

as a stop smoking aid their is mixed data

as a safer alternativer to smoking, so far they seem much better &to the smoker & those around them

one issue us that the fruity flavours have been shown to attract kids who otherwise wouldnt be interested in smoking, so ditching them should be considered

one issue us that the fruity flavours have been shown to attract kids who otherwise wouldnt be interested in smoking, so ditching them should be considered

I guess you didn’t read the article.

Concerns that e-cigarettes could be a gateway to conventional smoking, including for young non-smokers, have not materialised.

It is a common theme among the anti vaping lobby, their opinions aren’t really based on much beyond stamping their feet and shouting, I don’t like that! Ban that! Should we ban bikes now too? Plenty people don’t like those.

I smell a rat.

I’m quite alarmed at what MPs are pushing for- that is, to take restrictions off advertising and to allow vaping in public spaces. I don’t particularly like the smell, but that’s not what bothers me: it’s the claims of how safe it is, based only on short-term data.

Although it’s claimed that use is low amongst never smokers, perhaps that’s largely to do with the fact that vaping is not heavily advertised and is not permitted in public spaces?

Why do we need to make it more socially acceptable, if the main aim is to get smokers off cigs?

Someone somewhere is thinking of money.

I do agree there’s no need to get MPs involved, I’d actively discourage their involvement tbh. Get more health professionals involved, and if they start getting concerned down the line, then do something, if it is needed. Everything else is just irrational noise.

No Fing thanks!

Keep your vape to yourself!

How many yrs was it before the fag industry admitted that they knew all along smoking was bad for you?!

I wouldn’t trust those fekers as far as I could throw them, I don’t want your stinking douche stick filling my nose with it’s pong!

Can we ban subway? That really stinks!…

Where my workshop is one of the other units manufacturers ecig liquids, I noticed that although 3 or 4 of the owners/family have unlimited access to ecig liquids they still smoke normal fags. I pulled the owner on this but didn’t get a straight answer off him.

My Mrs quit smoking by making her own raspberry leaf cigs and hasn’t touched cigs since.

one issue us that the fruity flavours have been shown to attract kids who otherwise wouldnt be interested in smoking, so ditching them should be considered

I guess you didn’t read the article.

Concerns that e-cigarettes could be a gateway to conventional smoking, including for young non-smokers, have not materialised.

Missed the point there? It’s not about e cigs as a way into smoking it’s developing a new generation of nicotine addicts. Think it’s healthy getting people hooked on something?

Is nicotine dangerous when vaped? Evidence? Also what are the numbers of non smokers that have taken up vaping?

Strange question, is it addictive? That is what the big tobacco companies are interesting in. They need new addicts to keep them in business.

Do you have the numbers? It’s a largely unregulated industry that wants to grow. At no point do they have the health of users at the front of their thoughts,

Why is it a strange question? If it’s not dangerous it doesn’t matter, it’s personal choice, it should be left to the individual. It’s just your irrational mind wanting to ban something you don’t like.

Are we going to ban caffeine now? That’s addictive and I hate the smell of coffee. Stamp, stamp stamp, grrrr ban it! 😆

You can’t go banning stuff just cause you don’t like things.

ps, I don’t need the numbers I’m not the one suggesting there are loads of non smokers taking up vaping, that’s up to you to present. It’s your claim.

Why are we trying to dissociate them? It’s a nicotine delivery system, do you want that promoted to more people?

To alienate smokers even more. That really is a stinky horrible habit and whilst the jury is still out on how bad vaping is smoking clearly is grim. At the moment smokers have their vaping mates to keep them company outside in the rain – I’d be more than happy if they were on their tod looking even more like social pariahs. Let the vapers back inside to consume their nicotine alongside those consuming their healthy alcohol and msg whilst doing a bit of light gambling and all the other perfect healthy pastimes we choose and are socially acceptable.

I always feel a bit sorry for people I see vaping,it just looks a desperate chore.

its a social marker saying ‘i’m an addict’

while i appreciate these people need help with their addiction that isn’t going to be done by normalising their behaviour . if anything it should be administered and controlled like methadone use for heroin addicts.

It’s just your irrational mind wanting to ban something you don’t like.

what is rational about vaping?

 If it’s not dangerous it doesn’t matter, it’s just your irrational mind wanting to ban something you don’t like.

Why? Because unlike many other things smokers and vapers love to share, share their smell and whatever is left in there. If somebody asked you nott o vape near them would you move away?

It invades my personal space, it is something I can’t avoid if you allow it inside or on public transport. You only have to see how far your average smoker or vaper can make it from a doorway to see how little regard they have for anybody else.

If you want your nicotine hit inside chew the gum.

When you starting your ban coffee campaign? Have you already banned coffee from your office?

That is what the big coffee companies are interesting in. They need new addicts to keep them in business.

<h3 class=”Heading3″>Young people and a potential gateway to conventional smoking</h3>
<p class=”Para1″><span class=”Para1Span”>35.</span>One of the concerns that has been raised about e-cigarettes has been a fear that they could appeal to young people and potentially act as a ‘gateway’ to conventional smoking. The evidence we received, however, has not shown this to be the case. Research undertaken by the Association for Young People’s Health found that the proportion of young people ‘experimenting’ with e-cigarettes ranged between an eighth and a quarter of young people, but that regular use by secondary school children was limited to about 1%, and those children generally engaged in smoking behaviour.<span class=”Footnote-Reference”><span id=”footnote-071-backlink”>72</span></span></p>
<p class=”Para1″><span class=”Para1Span”>36.</span>Professor Peter Hajek of Queen Mary University nevertheless cautioned:</p>
<p class=”Quote”>We need to keep an eye on it, because somebody will figure out what you need to add to e-cigarettes to make them more addictive to non-smokers. At the moment, non-smokers do not progress to daily vaping; it is really difficult. If they do, they often vape nicotine-free, just for some kind of flavour and behaviour. There would be a very legitimate concern if we saw large numbers of young people who have never smoked becoming daily vapers, but you would be hard pushed to find anybody.<span class=”Footnote-Reference”><span id=”footnote-070-backlink”>73</span></span></p>
<p class=”ParaContinued”>Public Health England and the MHRA similarly concluded:</p>
<p class=”Quote”>British youth experiment with e-cigarettes but regular use is rare and very largely confined to young people who have smoked. There is some evidence that young people who have vaped but never smoked are more likely subsequently to smoke but there is no evidence that this relationship is causal. The UK has good data on this issue from surveys.<span class=”Footnote-Reference”><span id=”footnote-069-backlink”>74</span></span></p>

Well that looks pretty watertight to me. Up to 25% of kids expermenting with them? Totally fine.

Can we ban subway?

I agree 100% with you there. Although they are vastly different from vapes – vapes all smell of different things, from strawberry to caramel to menthol to cheeseburger. Subways? Well they all smell of Subway. All of them, identical.

Stupid forum. Anyway – you’ll all be relieved to hear that the evidence they cite on the long-term health effects is even more reassuring and completely robust:

<span class=”Para1Span”>29.</span><strong class=”Conclusion”>There<strong class=”Conclusion”> are uncertainties, nevertheless, especially about any long-term health effects<strong class=”Conclusion”> of e-cigarettes, because the products have not yet had<strong class=”Conclusion”> a history of long use. The studies needed to guarantee<strong class=”Conclusion”> the safety of e-cigarettes are inevitably frustrated by the<strong class=”Conclusion”> absence of a population of e-cigarette users who have<strong class=”Conclusion”> never smoked conventional cigarettes before taking up vaping. Ultimately, however<strong class=”Conclusion”>, any judgement of risks has to take account of the<strong class=”Conclusion”> risk of not adopting e-cigarettes—that is, continuing to<strong class=”Conclusion”> smoke conventional cigarettes, which are substantially more harmful than e<strong class=”Conclusion”>-cigarettes.

I think you might be prematurely jumping to conclusions there ^^^^

When you starting your ban coffee campaign? Have you already banned coffee from your office?

No we don’t spray it around the office though do we?

All most people want is to not have people sucking away and venting them indoors – just think of it as being considerate to other people.

not be better if you just posted the link?

No we don’t spray it around the office though do we?

Well yes you do, unless there’s some other magical way the smell of coffee hits my nose.

It’s on the Science and Technology Select Committee’s website. I’m sure you’ve read it already as you wouldn’t want to be defending it from a position of ignorance, or take it on blind faith?

Anecdotal evidence from 1 school and a small group would say kids are taking up vaping, possibly some would have started smoking

Irony today was chatting with someone I know is while she was stood outside work having g a real fagbreak, obviously she works in a vape shop.

I do think all vapes should have a fag equivelance counter. To give users an idea of just how much nicotine they have ingested.

It’s on the Science and Technology Select Committee’s website. I’m sure you’ve read it already as you wouldn’t want to be defending it from a position of ignorance, or take it on blind faith?

How am I taking things on blind faith? I’m asking for evidence of the risks, not really getting presented with anything other than, it might do, but we don’t know yet. I agree with that. There’s a risk, personally that risk is going to be better than smoking for me, so how hum. It’s all good in my case.

As for kids, again, you can’t protect them from everything, they are going make their own decisions. and you can’t put a blanket ban on things for adults, that they are perfectly entitled to make this own decisions about, just cause some kids might take it up.

In case you didn’t notice, it is actually illegal to sell vapes to children. So, really, that’s a parenting issue.