E-Bikes I think I need help

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  • E-Bikes I think I need help
  • discapade
    Member

    So a few of my riding mates have bought them, all fit, all good good riders, jumpers etc. Just bought them to offer something different. I had half day yesterday and they turned up at mine with a spare ride..Well 2 hours and 27 miles later I can’t ever remember having that much fun on a bike. It’s just “different” if all of you in the group have them it’s awesome, doing so many more descents and still being knackered when I got home..The bike was a Kenevo, now I want one..!

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Demoing a kenevo tomorrow, though i already have a levo, so am well versed in the joys of an ebike…

    oh, and ‘you lazy, cheating, environment destroying bastard etc etc’

    Premier Icon davosaurusrex
    Subscriber

    As long as you’re happy to burn in hell for all eternity that’s fine.

    I reckon as soon as one my group cracks and gets one the rest will follow. I just figure the longer we hold off the better the bikes will be. And we’ll be that much older and more smashed up so easier to justify (to ourselves, the haters can jog on)

    ricky1
    Member

    You’ll have no problems buying one then,bike shops are pushing them more than normal bikes now,looks like they appeal to a wider audience,I might buy one when I’m 70,if they last 30 years,good luck.

    ricky1
    Member

    A few lads I know bought them to get out more,they went out a few times now they don’t ride at all.

    discapade
    Member

    ^^ HaHa.. I just imagine places like Afan, instead of going round once or twice, you should be able to session parts of the blade, and get 3 loops in..

    ajantom
    Member

    Yup, if you want to look like a numpty with more money than sense who can’t be bothered to actually get fit and ride a proper bike, then fill yer boots.

    I should add a 😉 but I’m only half joking.

    taxi25
    Member

    “doing so many more descents and still being knackered when I got home”

    There’s one of the issues I have with them. Twice the descents is twice the wear and year of the trails. Not much of an issue on man made stuff that is maintained. But your local woods sort of trails will suffer.

    ajantom
    Member

    …and add in riders like i nearly crashed into last weekend. On E-bikes riding up what is normally a downhill only trail.

    No problems with people riding up hills of course, but mix the ability to ride steeper stuff with perhaps a lack of trail sense, and more problems are inevitable.

    ricky1
    Member

    Last year I remember over hearing a conversation between a group of fairly old guys on e-bikes after colne valley mtb challenge,they were saying how hard the challenge was,I don’t know how much biking experience they had but sounds like they had fun,None of them would have made it round on a normal bike,it does give the old and infirm a chance to do what they wouldn’t be able to do.

    taxi25
    Member

    “it does give the old and infirm a chance to do what they wouldn’t be able to do.”

    I don’t think anyone has a problem with that, and good luck to them.

    pennine
    Member

    I’m 70 neither old nor infirm so can’t justify riding one yet. Mind you 25+ miles in the Yorkshire Dales/NYM is getting harder 🙁

    ricky1
    Member

    I don’t think people have a problem with e-bikes,it’s just personal preference.

    I recently got a 2017 Levo Expert, 30% off from Rutlands. I’m young, fit(ish) and healthy but its bloody ace! Can’t wait for everybody to have one. So much more time spent having fun enjoying the downhills without having the slog of the uphills. Everybody should try one. It’s perfect for the steep hills in Gloucestershire.

    The only problem is the plus tyres are crap in the mud and the chain is way too close to the tyre, so one sticky mud bath and the drivechain feels like crap. Need to purchase some 29″ wheels with thin mud tyres for the winter.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    I have hardly been on my (non e) mountain bike after pretty much all my riding friends bought E bikes.  I can’t keep up with them on pedal power alone (despite me be pretty fit). And now i’m hearing all sorts of stuff about them de-restricting and modifying their bikes (because “last week Dave was much faster than me” etc etc they already have bought 2 spare batteries each so they can do more “laps”)

    Thing is, what they are doing isn’t (imo) mountain biking, it’s off road motorcycling.  Which is fine, but the potential consequences for Off Road Access (already a controversial topic for many) are long and complex  (How long before landowners crack down on “people tearing around on Ebikes” by stopping ALL bikes from using their land for example?  Plenty of UK riding (because our country is so small/crowded) takes place at un-official but tolerated sites.  Sure, there will always be trail centres, but what i love about mountain biking is just being able to pedal around my local woods etc

    Unfortunately, as usual, legislation is way behind the advance of cheap technology, and when it does catch up, it’s going to be:

    1) very hard to ban ebikes

    2) very easy to just ban bike access in a more sweeping way

    (i can hear the Ramblers Assoc. laughing softly into there beards already……   😉

    fatoldgit
    Member

    Recently bought one after about 5 years of constant medical issues.

    Haters gonna hate,

    I can remember a well respected bike shop near me saying there is no way they would ever stock MTBs cos they were just a fad 😅

    Well they are still in business still no MTBs stocked

    Can see similar with E bikes.

    i love mine, and say go for it ( n+1)

    then again I started riding MTBs long before trail centres were even thought of and still enjoy the many and varied legal off road routes much more.

    not saying trail centres don’t have a place, they do, but just like downhill, cross, road, trike, time trail and all over types of bike and riding its down to choice

    escrs
    Member

    Had my Specialized Levo Turbo for 8 months now

    Flies up the hills making them more fun, can be used if your feeling lazy (Turbo everywhere) or for a proper workout put it in Eco and adjust eco right down in the app or just turn it off and pedal unassisted, Its great fun when there is a group of you on them

    Having said all that i will never get rid of my Transition Patrol for the following reasons

    It handles better, especially on very twisty trails

    Feels better for large drops and jumps, you can just throw it around with ease

    Best bit of advice i can give you is join the Levo and Kenevo facebook page before you buy

    At some point you will prob have an motor/battery issue which is nothing to worry about as all is covered under warranty but its only when you need warranty work done that you find out how good your dealer is

    If your in the south then your very lucky as Chris Reilly at Berkshire cycles is the Levo & Kenevo king, much praise for him on the facebook page

    If your elsewhere in the UK you can check with other users who is the most competitive for price and also good for warranty work and who to avoid at all cost!

    Premier Icon martymac
    Subscriber

    I’ve had mine for a couple of years, it’s brilliant.

    the irony now is that i will need it to rehabilitate my broken leg, as i may end up with limited movement in my ankle.

    i have a spare battery off my wife’s one if i go for a long ride.

    the most ive managed in one go is 37 miles, i used half the battery to do that.

    the shortest ive had is 14 miles, that was on full turbo, I basically sat on the speed limiter. I have also went out with a few guys from my lbs, that was fun. A few of them remarked on how much fun it looked.

    mine is a cube stereo, bosch motor.

    ricky1
    Member

    That worries me maxtorque,the gap between mtb’s and “scramblers”has been filled,only a matter of time Untill there are signs on gates banning all bikes instead of just motorbikes.

    alpin
    Member

    The trail builders here in Finale are against them…. The extra weight and plus tyres mean added erosion/work.

    One of the Italians was saying 2 eBikes are like 5 normal bikes when it comes to the damage /impact they have on the trails. That and the fact that many people who buy eBikes are, in his opinion, not “proper” or well seasoned riders who are braking sooner and for longer.

    It’s a slippery slope, imo.

    5thElefant
    Member

    That worries me maxtorque,the gap between mtb’s and “scramblers”has been filled,only a matter of time Untill there are signs on gates banning all bikes instead of just motorbikes.

    They make 1/3rd of a horsepower. They fill the gap between a fat useless knacker and a decent cyclist.

    oldtalent
    Member

    I will buy one at some point purely to annoy the haters. They are motorbikes, fat, lazy, unfit, not proper cycling, DESTROYING THE TRAILS etc etc.

    That will entertain me immensely to see them froth and seethe.

    doomanic
    Member

    I’ve got a Trek Powerfly LT and absolutely love it. I can do 25 miles + at the FoD/Cannock in Eco Mode or I can do half that in eMTB mode and risk the top of my head falling off. I still finish every ride knackered and this is the first weekend since buying it that I’m not out on it (the boss has the w/e off so I’m grounded…).

    The biggest bonus for me is not waking up the following day unable to move properly or bend over as my hip is buggered.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    “doing so many more descents and still being knackered when I got home”

    There’s one of the issues I have with them. Twice the descents is twice the wear and year of the trails. Not much of an issue on man made stuff that is maintained. But your local woods sort of trails will suffer.

    I’m about twice as fit as I used to be, can ride 3x the distance in a day. Should I start smoking and eat lots of pies, for the sake of the trails? : )

    E-bikes is bikes imo, have fun.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    Standard ones make 250w.  But they make that at any time, and at any speed.  250w, continuously is a VERY decent human rider.  I’d bet that the typical ‘lesure’ MTBer on an typical ride, puts out far less than 100w on average.  And then you get to the issue of non-standard ebikes. If it’s possible to tune them (and it is) then people will, and how do you police that?

    (sure, it’s illegal, but a) what’s the penalty and b) how would you actually get caught and proved to have tuned your ebike)

    Fact is, my ebike friends are now doing 2 laps of a trail centre to every 1 i manage, and riding 40kg bikes, faster everywhere (more braking, more load in turns etc etc)  I can’t see how that can’t result in more tail erosion.  (no probs at a trail centre, but not entirely sensible in a more natural setting)

    fossy
    Member

    I’ve battled back from a broken spine, and I’m certainly not ready for an e-bike. I’ll ride a standard bike until such a point I can’t – then I’ll get one.

    I’m still in two minds on the long term reliability as I know a couple of lads that have had issues with them. One lad is still using one, but is on his second as the other died.

    I’ve nothing against them, but as someone who has ridden/raced for over 30 years, I’m too old skool – I’ll just suffer !  As an ex. road cyclist, I love climbing – we are just weird.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    @maxtorque – they aren’t 250W all the time though. That’s at max, it can deliver it at any speed up to 15mph but won’t at all times.

    250W isn’t a high FTP for a reasonably fit rider. = 3.5w/kg at 71kg? Mid-pack in regional level Sport class? Not sure. Not top level anyway. I know on a shallow-ish gradient on a good surface a reasonably fit (but below cat 3 fit) rider can keep up with a legal e-bike. Anyway.. e-bikes put out more than many of us but it’s not that much higher power, it can just do it for longer.

    The weight thing – 40kg for a legal e-bike? Way more than most. 20-22kg is more common. Rider + std bike varies by more than the 7kg gain of most Bosch or Shimano e-bike systems. It’s really not that much. You’d carry 5-7kg for bikepacking.

    I’m not that pro e-MTBS tbh, just keeping this in perspective. It’s a side of MTB that I have zero interest in and I see the point about it being a bit MX/shuttle run attitude but I think the negatives are overplayed. If you’re anti e-bikes it’s hard not to have to apply the same logic to suspension, anything that lets us carry more speed or ride further more efficiently. And if you weigh 10kg more than I do, well … : )

    We should be more concerned about the attitude of riders on any bike than whether it’s an e-bike or not.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    Whilst i agree in principal @ajmesco with your sentiments, there is one issue and that’s the fact that the “enemies” of mountain biking are not logical!

    (btw, i mean’t to type 40lb, but my metric engineers head got stepped in a made me type 40 kg!!)

    The first time a Rambler gets hit by an eBike, irrespective of why, who’s fault it was, or anything sensible and logical, we all know what’s going to happen. I can see the daily mail style headlines already!   And whilst you could say “who cares about the daily mail” the fact of the matter is that the majority of people, who have no interesting in mountain biking (just like they have no interest in off road motorcycling) do take those ridiculous headlines and negative publicity to heart, and can easily push a ban, or reduction in countryside access for ALL bikers.

    In terms of damage,  it’s actually easy to work out, as a typical eBike battery holds 300 to 500 Wh or energy, equivalent to a continuous power of 300w for a whole hour.  Now, take a VERY fit pedaller, they might be able to put out a continuous 300w for 20min (might) so that battery pretty much (on average) triples the energy put to the rear tyre of a ebike compared to a human depends on the total energy expended, i suspect an ebike actually gives more like 6x the total energy expulsion. For every “<span style=”background-color: #eeeeee; color: #444444; font-size: 12px;”>Mid-pack in regional level Sport class” level person i see pedalling an MTB, i bet i see 100 more er, “significantly lower average power” riders.  ;-)</span>

    Ramsey Neil
    Member

    It’s a completely different thing . Suspension helps you to make the most of the power that you are able to produce . E-Bike actually produces a rather large chunk of power to help you on your way . That’s one of the reasons why mechanical doping is not allowed in a bike race but suspension is .

    5thElefant
    Member

    If it’s possible to tune them (and it is) then people will, and how do you police that?

    (sure, it’s illegal, but a) what’s the penalty and b) how would you actually get caught and proved to have tuned your ebike)

    You could tune them up to moped levels of power. 10X the legal limit. That could really annoy the easily annoyed (for all of 6 minutes). That would still be under 1/10th the power of a mx bike though…

    fossy
    Member

    Having ridden with a guy on an e-bike, he climbed slightly quicker than us, but was very smooth, the power delivery is better over sloppy conditions than leg only. He was only quicker on the really steep stuff, and probably did less damage as there was no slip.

    I’m impressed with them, but unless I really can’t ride without assistance, I’ll keep with no battery. MTB’s are high enough maintenance as it is – never spent the time I do cleaning and oiling like I do now having moved away from road bikes.

    smell_it
    Member

    It will be a cold day in hell before I admit defeat and get an ebike. Luckily I’m a roadie so haven’t got any mate’s, just people I ride with and when any of us do try a fit a motor to a bike we are usually trying to hide it.

    orangeboy
    Member

    Maybe I’m a little odd but I like the challenge of a good climb and an e-bike would take that away a little.

    I could not care less if other people use them or not if it makes them happy.

    as long as it does not cause access issues for the rest of us proper cyclist 😉

    Premier Icon chvck
    Subscriber

    The first time a Rambler gets hit by an eBike, irrespective of why, who’s fault it was, or anything sensible and logical, we all know what’s going to happen.

    Is this not the case if a mountain bike hits a rambler regardless off ebike? Especially if it was on a “cheeky” trail.

    Maybe I’m a little odd but I like the challenge of a good climb and an e-bike would take that away a little.

    For me, it does take that away a bit – it has to be a steep climb to make me feel like it was a challenge. I usually ride mine on the lowest power that isn’t off too. Without it though, I still don’t get that feeling as I can’t push myself anyway – my legs just give out so I’m just slow, it feels bad, I can’t walk properly when I get off and I can’t enjoy the descents because I can’t hold myself out of the saddle or pedal properly when I’m tired.

    People say that “it’s fine for the less abled and elderly” but as a 31 year old with leg issues it doesn’t stop the odd person making comments as I ride passed them. Most people just ask what it’s like to ride though.

    Also, in a year n a bit on my Levo I’m on my third or fourth battery and third motor. I am told that this isn’t normal though!

    MarkBrewer
    Member

    Is this not the case if a mountain bike hits a rambler regardless off ebike?

    We know it is but as Maxtorque said above the people that don’t like mountain bikes are illogical and the fact it’s got a motor is just extra ammo for their argument.

    Premier Icon akira
    Subscriber

    Not going to buy one currently as I don’t need it and they’re pretty pricey but they are a whole lot of fun. If I had a lottery win I’d be buying one tomorrow just for those days when you want to ride but your legs say no.

    Premier Icon singlespeedstu
    Subscriber

    Fook me there’s some doom merchants on this thread…

    Premier Icon bigdean
    Subscriber

    Well in a foresty comission they can’t stop motor bikes ripping up the woods and feilds so quiet bikes will bs fine.

    The worse condition trails/ byways i’ve been on have been as a result of the horsey types, locally the illegal 4×4 and motor cross is a bigger problem.

    nealglover
    Member

    Fook me there’s some doom merchants on this thread…

    They are just tired.

    Should maybe get an ebike?

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    I like em’ I’ve said it before I think they’re great for encouraging people on bikes.

    But..

    All I want to know is .. those bikes the OPs mates have.. have they been chipped yet ???

    🥊💣💥

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