Viewing 40 posts - 201 through 240 (of 383 total)
  • E-Bike preaching, aren’t we over this yet?
  • Malvern Rider
    Free Member

    Yes it’s all relative, but some of us do seek solitude and peace outdoors. Some of us walk there, and cycle there. I share concerns over possible shifts in bike access laws owing to an increase in both e-mtbs and attendant tabloidism. This would ironically and most cruelly impact those with health/medical issues who actually require an emtb or similar to access the greater outdoors. I know this anecdotally because I lost over a decade to sudden ill-health/mobility issues, and had I had an emtb back then (don’t think they existed in late 90s-2000s) I could have continued to get both exercise and access, aiding recovery, maintaining fitness, mental health and life-quality. As it turned out all were compromised and the effects are still felt today with my mtb time (I ride a regular non-ebike) down to about 5% of pre-disease/injury levels. Keeping trails open for the majority of riders/types of riders not a minority would be preferable. My concern is that a few incidents + tabloidism could see blanket bans which of course wouldn’t discriminate between able-bodied emtbrs and those who are lesser-abled.

    Talking of relative, Britain remains one of the least wooded countries in Europe, with a paltry 13 per cent tree cover (compared to the European norm of over 35 per cent)

    Plant trees, hide people. We’ll all be happier. Except for grouse shooters…

    chevychase
    Full Member

    @kayak23 “equality for all” – nope.

    Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

    Walkers getting to the tops of mountains have a shared ecperience but if half of them wore rocket pants then you can bet there’d be grumbling.

    Edit: Snowdon’s a great example tbh. You get arseholes in high heels and dogs in their handbags who’ve come up on the train and are a danger to themselves. Happy for them to see the amazing views but you shake your head. It’s the same with n00b ebikers – attempting to hoon down rangers with no thought for the safety of the walkers – not because they’re dicks – but because they’re inexperienced and would never have been up there on a non-motor-bike.

    Although experienced mtbers ride ebikes the attraction to noobs that get taken places they’d never of dreamed of going without a motor to take them there is strong. And they don’t have the skills or experience built up over years of struggle.

    Ebikes are danger-enablers.

    (I fear for snowdon access tbh. Was speaking at length to a mountain rescue guy who was fundraising on snowdon last year (lives in dinorwig) and high-heeled/trainerd idiots are top of his shitlist – but nothing can be done about that – ebikes are second for exactly the reasons above. And it’s a ‘voluntary agreement’ isn’t it…

    Malvern Rider
    Free Member

    Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

    How does that (Petersonism? Say it ain’t so?) work with differing abilities? What is this ‘equal opportunity’ and ‘equal outcome’ in context of trail/outdoor access?*

    *Serious and respectful question. Tongue out of my cheek, no snappy pseudoquations etc.

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    chevychase
    Full Member

    It’s not a “petersonism” @malvern rider (conversations about social justice were had long before that asshat came on the scene) it hadn’t occured to me – so calling it that made me smile 🙂

    I think I’ve covered most of my objection in my edit above – that trail access isn’t like social justice. You can use the same terminology but judged on different parameters. Access for mtbers is equal – was equal, before emtb’s – in that everyone had access to the same trailhead but generally only the more experienced would get further in/on to the harder, more dangerous, more remote stuff.

    Everybody is 100% behind emtbs for the less physically abled – because their opportunity is limited – and emtb’s level that playing field somewhat so our disabled friends can join us. That is a world full of win. Equality of opportunity.

    But for the physically-able? Snowdon’s an example, but lets look at Brenin: noobs would start on the blue or the muddy fox – build up their fitness and skills over time – and have a fekking great time of it whilst they were at it. Progression of physiological changes – and the technical skills and experience that go alongside – took time. And every physically abled person had that same opportunity.

    Ebikers hit the beast first time out. So what? – it’s a much more demanding trail technically so more dangerous to them. – but I don’t really care about that – you’re totally free to break yourself. But I’ve been knocked off trails by impatient fat men on ebikes (twice in wales – on the marin and on the beast) with big grins and no trail etiquette – as has the o/h. Transfer that level of noob to Snowdon and it’s fekking dangerous.

    That pic of Snowdon is sort of where we’re heading with motorised bike access. People won’t be noobs forever – but more remote trails are being hit with increasing frequency by motorised vehicles. And although fun for ebikers (how could it not be?!), absolutely will have knock-on effects for the rest of us.

    ajantom
    Full Member

    It’s all down to personal opinion and preference Shirley?
    Whichever side of the argument you fall on you’ll be able to justify it.

    I may think they’re shit, and I can back that up with anecdotal evidence. For some they’re the best thing since cheez-whiz on toast, and they can do the same.

    Recently I just tend to ride in places I’m less likely to meet them. Less trail-centres, more wilds of Devon.

    When I have met fellow travellers on them (middle of the Quantocks recently, late middle aged couple looking pretty knackered) then fair play to them I say.

    I liked the article in the last ST mag about the 3 generations going for a ride together as their Emtbs levelled the playing field nicely.
    Though I did wonder why the grandson was on one, as I’m sure he’d have been fine on a normal bike.

    iainc
    Full Member

    chevychase, as a recent convert to eMTB, for health reasons, I read most of your posts with a degree of annoyance, however the one you posted just there is really good, and I do agree with what you are saying.

    I have been riding for 20 years, MTB, road, track, this new fangled gravel stuff, and recently eMTB. It really is all just riding bikes, which is often missed by the anti ebike brigade, however your point about analog bikes and fitness and learning curves to progression to more difficult/dangerous/remote riding is spot on.

    chevychase
    Full Member

    @ajantom

    It’s all down to personal opinion and preference Shirley?
    Whichever side of the argument you fall on you’ll be able to justify it

    I don’t think so. The points I raised above are real issues that nobody wants to look at – and maybe won’t look at until trail access starts to be removed.

    I work in a field that’s largely about risk – and humans generally aren’t very good at quantifying/understanding such abstractions. The points I made above – risks of injury to self, risk to other people, risk of trail access being removed because of social incohesion, added to the changing nature of the feel of outdoor spaces as electric-motors change ability and desire to access remote areas are all real issues (of varying importance) that ebikers do not want to think about – because it may (or may not) make them feel bad.

    chevychase
    Full Member

    @ianc

    chevychase, as a recent convert to eMTB, for health reasons, I read most of your posts with a degree of annoyance, however the one you posted just there is really good, and I do agree with what you are saying.

    I have been riding for 20 years, MTB, road, track, this new fangled gravel stuff, and recently eMTB. It really is all just riding bikes, which is often missed by the anti ebike brigade, however your point about analog bikes and fitness and learning curves to progression to more difficult/dangerous/remote riding is spot on.

    It’s literally the only objection I can stand by. Reading about ebikes (and, bizarrely snowshows and snowboarding equipment, as of today) on MTB forums/magazines is an annoyance to me – but these things exist to sell – and the natural market for eMTBs is MTBers. The gripe I have about ebikers saying they keep them as fit as normal bikes (and the mental flips and twists they go through to “prove” that) – can really be shrugged off by rolling my eyes and thinking “humans”.

    But the progression/fitness/access and safety issues I outlined are real concerns of mine. I think that it’s great that more people are out (amongst other things it will help when it comes to people thinking about environmental issues – you can’t care about (or vote for) what you don’t love – and being in and about nature helps that). But out under their own steam after having time to learn the skills and develop your deep fitness is infinitely preferable to increased motorised access.

    ajantom
    Full Member

    Chevychase – I agree totally with your points about progression in riding.
    The same point has been made over the years about starting on a rigid bike/hardtail, and the over-confidence that a ‘skill-compensator’ full-sus gives you.

    Case in point a recent trip to BPW, the only bad crash I was aware of all day were by a relative newbie on a blue trail. 160mm suspension, pads and a full face didn’t save him from spannering himself, in fact it probably made it far worse.

    My point (made slightly tongue in cheek) was that people will always be able to justify their stance. No one, or very few people, will ever admit they’re wrong. Especially if they’ve dropped 5k on a bike.

    Malvern Rider
    Free Member

    chevy thanks for that. Still doing the ‘motorbike’ one-size-fits all tabloidism I see, but much improved content and a thoughtful response. We maybe aren’t so very different in our desires for environmental harmony/protection, but I see lazy blanket Daily Maily classifications/rhetoric of ‘motorbike’ to be as potentially damaging to future access as the physical issues of e-assist bikes.

    Access for mtbers is equal – was equal, before emtb’s – in that everyone able-bodied mtbers* had access to the same trailhead but generally only the more experienced would get further in/on to the harder, more dangerous, more remote stuff.

    … emtb’s level that playing field somewhat so our disabled friends can join us. That is a world full of win. Equality of opportunity.

    Playing-field eh? We are competing for space or for win?

    Well first-off, thanks for that vote for continued ‘equality of opportunity’ . Very tolerant and inclusive. So with an emtb I could still access the great outdoors as I could before disease/injury/joint-damage/resultant weight-gain? Figure I’ll also be able to cover roughly the same distance and terrain as could an able-bodied MTBer whatever that is (there seem to be many types from old men of the hills to drive to the bike parker and point downhill) But you’ll have to remind me – how is that not also an ‘equality of outcome?’

    I’m old enough to remember MTBing before ‘trails/bike parks’, but even back then it (cycling) was a way for me to get far and wide in the countryside away from the conurbation in which I was raised. Away from crowds. Being a non-driver until late thirties I was broadly anti-car for most uses, ie cycle-commuter, environmentalist/(a nature conservationist by vocation as well as pastime). Walking and cycling was always about mobility as well as a way to indulge the pursuits I relied on, ie nature-appreciation, hiking, camping and cycle-touring. In 1990 one of them new-fangled ATB/MTBs gave me wider access and more quickly than walking, and so I ditched the road bike. For example I’d now cycle by ATB on and offroad to Mid Wales from West Mids, set camp, leave bike then walk/scramble to summit/s. I enjoy/ed both walking and cycling as much as I saw sense to keeping the environmental footprint as small as possible. Always carry a personal code for hierarchical right of way, and offroad it goes:

    2 legs, 4 legs, 2 wheels, 4 wheels. So I would stop and often dismount for everyone and everything basically, for the latter category I’d give way more for self-preservation 😬

    By mid-early 90s there was an MTB ‘scene’ beginning among a few friends and locals. I soon became aware that mine and their pursuits were broadly different although we all had mountain bikes. I wasn’t as competitive and didn’t want a ‘bike-wagon’, neither an all-mountain (remember?) or downhill bike. I didn’t drop empty cans, litter, etc (I was always the ‘righteous prick’ who reminded friends not to throw their shit out of the car/van window or in the bushes, what a boring stuffy ****) So I naturally gravitated away and continued cycling as a solitary pursuit, MTBing and daily commuting. Biking for me still pushed and improved my fitness (distance, climbs etc) but that was a side-effect to appreciating the outdoors/nature and ‘being’ there, and also the indescribable satisfaction of getting home under my own steam (often very late at night as a ride could be 100k)

    The bottom line is the world has changed fast. More people, more quick-fixes, bigger suspension, disc brakes, cheaper access to tech, and more delivering our outdoor pursuits and gear by combustion engine to most-often anywhere where there are other humans doing the same. I can’t quantify whether or not bigger, better suspension and the advent of MTB disc brakes has had a bigger impact than emtb on the proliferation of ‘weekend-warriors’ who haven’t ‘earned their stripes’? But such categories/stereotypes of riders is only useful to a degree if at all. Do you foresee legislation against categories of rider-type or categories of bike? Or categories of EAPC. Self-policing by the scenesters was arguably shit even twenty years ago in my old neck of the woods. Surely it’s only gotten worse?

    I’m guessing that it would make little to no difference in eyes and minds if you saw my fat arse on an emtb in the middle of a lonely moor, or someone else’s on one in a bike park. Yes people are less-likely to encounter me as I try level best to get away from crowds, but as ajantom says – ‘fair play’? Or is it? I’m still tutting at big-travel (analogue) bike groups on the Hills using our scheduled ancient monuments to get some air and rake some mud in their matching helmets and onesies. When the emtbrs start on it I’ll be needing an emtb of my own from which to get up there and wave my arthritic fist.

    Am I grumpy enough? Do I even deserve an emtb, even if I could afford one? It’s all bollocks really isn’t it. Just people jostling for space, variously succeeding and failing to rub along without harming each other.

    Grumplestiltskin-grade true anecdote: I’ve considered an emtb in the past as a way to get away from other MTBers and walkers, ie being then able to navigate the many little-used and dire bridleways all day long (most often often impassable by regular bicycle ) but then I might meet myself too often in the same place. The noose tightens with our own weight. No escape! (I’m ok hun…just another week/weekend off the bike grrr)

    *my edit

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    “The gripe I have about ebikers saying they keep them as fit as normal bikes (and the mental flips and twists they go through to “prove” that) – can really be shrugged off by rolling my eyes and thinking “humans”.”

    The ability of humans to develop and maintain aerobic fitness, strength or any other athletic aspect will always come down to the decision making of that individual.

    Claiming that you can’t get fit or stay fit on an ebike is like claiming that only getting into an actual boat will improve fitness, and that a rowing machine won’t.

    jameso
    Full Member

    Ebikes are danger-enablers.

    Snowdon has seen idiotic behaviour from riders for a long time, well before e-bikes. Yes there may be more in future but lower-skill newbs probably not be able to ride down at the speed of the time-served riders anyway.

    I expect walkers say the same thing about websites that encourage people to walk up hills in jeans w/o looking at the forecast, and said it about GPS for noobs who can’t read maps. MTBers could say the same about GPS use. And some of us might say the same things about cars that go 0-60 in 4 or 5 seconds.

    People are the problem. Raging against things that aren’t a problem in general but can be a tool of idiocy with a minority is futile, I think the majority and economics lead the changes and education is the best way cope with a daft minority. Or if you will rage, go after something that really matters?

    The points I raised above are real issues that nobody wants to look at – and maybe won’t look at until trail access starts to be removed.

    Walkers and climbers probably said the same thing abut rigid ATBs in the 80s – “people will get themselves further into the wild than they could before, without learning hill sense. There will be problems and MR call outs” etc.

    The sky isn’t falling in, we’ve been here before, it’s just the world changing a little : ) (aware this may all sound patronising and it’s not meant that way, just a neutral take on it)

    gears_suck
    Free Member

    Human nature, ego, insecurity, competitiveness. Whatever? Lets face it, no matter what you do or in this case ride. Someone is right there ready to tell you how you should be doing or riding something else. Like most people here. I’m all for riding. Not a care in the world what it is you’re on. So, if I see you out on the trail riding a shopping bike or your e-unbike. All you’ll get from me is respect. There’s room for everything and everyone. If you think there isn’t. Stay home and make some.

    Malvern Rider
    Free Member

    BTW, I’d still argue that putting your bike in the back of the car and driving there is by far the biggest problem, environmentally. I have done it more myself of late because I can’t now physically cycle to the Wyre or FoD and back as I once could. Now if I had an EV…

    There’s room for everything and everyone. If you think there isn’t. Stay home and make some.

    That’s a neat quote if I don’t think too hard about it!

    So, if I see you out on the trail riding a shopping bike or your e-unbike. All you’ll get from me is respect.

    Broadly agree. It’s behaviour-style, not bike-style that wins or loses the day. Except for tabloidism, which too often destroys good stuff by winning at bad stuff.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    Claiming that you can’t get fit or stay fit on an ebike is like claiming that only getting into an actual boat will improve fitness, and that a rowing machine won’t.

    Ah, no. You e gone in completely the wrong direction there. Neither example you give do any of the work for you. What it’s actually like is saying you’ll get less fit pedalling an electric assisted pedalo* (aka a crap motorboat) than you would on a traditional pedalo.

    *it really exists! (Kinda)

    https://enrg.io/bionx-seascape-12-pedal-electric-paddle-boat-video/

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    “Ah, no. You e gone in completely the wrong direction there. Neither example you give do any of the work for you. What it’s actually like is saying you’ll get less fit pedalling an electric assisted pedalo* (aka a crap motorboat) than you would on a traditional pedalo.”

    Except that plenty of people choose to do otherwise pointless exercise. It doesn’t matter whether you’re going somewhere or not.

    To look at it another way, I’m just as knackered after a ride in bone dry conditions as I am when it’s a deep mud situation. The ride goes on for the same length of time but I travel less far because the rolling resistance is much higher in the mud.

    singlespeedstu
    Full Member

    Nothing more to add to this but.
    gears suck.
    Not seen you in ages hope you’re all good?

    ajontom
    As someone that has come across in the past as a hater you have pretty much nailed it on the head.

    If you ride in popular places you’re always going to see people that piss you off.
    As always the more out there you get the more respect you have for others that are out there too.

    bigdean
    Full Member

    Just had some time in the peak around hope, saw a few ebikers. Some tourists using the extra power for range. One pair over took me going up the broken road like it was a ride to the shops. One bloke i passed as he was walking his bike down potato alley then over took me climbing up to locker brook by shortcutting the hairpins on the grass.

    So some are usefull to enable people to ride when their health may not be upto it. Others will use it to be dicks, but show me any technology where that does not happen.

    georgesdad
    Full Member

    Borrowed a Turbo Levo in Glentress. First time on an e-bike. Was immediately blown away, but an hour later the novelty had worn off. I ride for my own fitness. I feel like every time I go out I improve my technique a bit, or I’m faster, smoother, whatever. In the Levo I felt like I was cheating myself more than anything. I felt like because I wasn’t busting a lung in the climbs, I somehow wasn’t earning the descents. I didn’t feel like I needed any sort of technique for climbing, just flick it into turbo mode and point it up the hill. It felt like a lazy, de-skilled, underhand way of mountain biking.

    What really took me by surprise though was that the hate on the trails was tangible. To the point where every time my brother and I overtook someone pedalling themselves up a climb, we felt we had to apologise and say “we don’t normally ride these you know…”

    One guy was really borderline nasty with his sarcasm.

    If I’d had a quid for every muttered “bloody ebikes”…

    I can totally see why people buy them, 100%. If you’ve got dodgy joints, low fitness for whatever reason or its simply the only way you can get out on the trails then great. It’s awesome if they’re helping people ride and enjoy a hobby that can be difficult to get into. They’re just not for me. Or for an awful lot of other people judging by my experience the other week.

    Seriously folks, stop the hate. We’re all out enjoying the same countryside! Live and let ride!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    On a 6min road climb near me 350w would get you top 15 out of 3,700, according to Strava anyway .

    Depends how heavy you are. 350W doesn’t propel my fat arse up hill that quickly, I get beaten by people outputting 290W.

    Ex-power meter user

    gears_suck
    Free Member

    Cheers Stu. You too mate.

    couchy
    Free Member

    “The gripe I have about ebikers saying they keep them as fit as normal bikes (and the mental flips and twists they go through to “prove” that) – can really be shrugged off by rolling my eyes and thinking “humans”.”

    What’s the difference between trying 100% on an ebike and 100% on a normal bike ?

    And danger enablers….what a load of tosh. Are we really to believe unless you start on a non ebike and spend ages going slow you shouldn’t ever go onto a more technical trail ?, it’s right back to my earlier comments regarding cyclists having issues with people getting access to longer faster rides and more technical routes without serving their apprenticeship of pain to get fitness. I ride for the fun of being on 2 wheels nothing else, ebikes give me a buzz with the added speed for my efforts, tbh if I could legally use a motorbike on trails and cycle paths I wouldn’t hesitate but I can’t so I use the ebike. I have no problem with others and I ride politely, I’d be amazed if anyone has a problem with me on the trails but if they do it’s none of my concern, people get far too worried about what others do

    zissou
    Free Member

    I love the idea of 2 strokes buzzing around singletrack whilst everyone else is on crossers and MTBs. Scenes 😅

    grannyjone
    Free Member

    3 Hours on an EBike can sometimes be more effort than 3 hours on a regular bike: As I’m going that much faster, I’m motivated and putting in more effort.
    As opposed to on a regular bike going really slow, and getting bored and demoralised. There is also very little bike handling going on uphill on fireroad at 3mph or getting off and pushing.

    EBiking also includes the incredibly arduous task of lifting double the weight over those damn fences.

    Danger enablers

    Anyone can access dangerous trails. It is not difficult to turn up at an Uplift centre and gain access to Double Black Diamonds!

    taxi25
    Free Member

    3 Hours on an EBike can sometimes be more effort than 3 hours on a regular bike: As I’m going that much faster, I’m motivated and putting in more effort.
    As opposed to on a regular bike going really slow, and getting bored and demoralised. There is also very little bike handling going on at 3mph or getting off and pushing.

    Is exactly this 😂😂😂

    The gripe I have about ebikers saying they keep them as fit as normal bikes (and the mental flips and twists they go through to “prove” that) – can really be shrugged off by rolling my eyes and thinking “humans”.”

    Honestly enjoy your hopefully legal E-mtb, but you do realise “most” people buy them to make the riding easier not harder.

    grannyjone
    Free Member

    Honestly enjoy your hopefully legal E-mtb, but you do realise “most” people buy them to make the riding easier not harder.

    Some people buy them to make the ride faster not necessarily easier.
    You just have to increase the distance/severity of the route enough and it will be about the same effort in the same time.

    grannyjone
    Free Member

    Another few points I’ve observed:
    1) I get out four times a week on my regular MTB. My climbing speed has not gone up in years. It’s getting boring seeing no improvement at all. I don’t have the time to ride more than 4 times a week, and there is not enough local variety to justify riding any more than 4 times a week, so it would be boring pointless training to do any more miles than what I’m already doing.
    An E Bike is the only way I can think of that will increase the speed of my rides. And it will improve it by a lot.
    I’m getting more and more bored of slow boring climbs and would like to just get them out of the way with quicker.

    2) Most people who I ride with get really demoralised going uphill. More recently some of them have started riding EBikes and they seem so much happier. There are some who can’t afford EBikes and they remain miserable.

    3) I don’t own an EBike yet but I’ve ridden many of the last few years.

    singlespeedstu
    Full Member

    you do realise “most” people buy them to make the riding easier not harder.

    I take it you ride a rigid fixie down world cup DH tracks?
    Mud spikes on your road bike?
    DH bike on the local chain gang ride?
    No?
    I bet you even get a taxi instead of walking. 😜

    taxi25
    Free Member

    There are some who can’t afford EBikes and they remain miserable.

    Thats pretty sad 🙁. I hope buying an e-mtb when they can afford one makes them happy 🤗

    kerley
    Free Member

    1) I get out four times a week on my regular MTB. My climbing speed has not gone up in years. It’s getting boring seeing no improvement at all. I don’t have the time to ride more than 4 times a week, and there is not enough local variety to justify riding any more than 4 times a week, so it would be boring pointless training to do any more miles than what I’m already doing.

    Your speed won’t go up just by going out riding. You need to do at least one training ride amongst those 4 rides (i.e.some intervals). You are just currently training your body to do the same thing at the same speed which it what you are seeing.

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    “Honestly enjoy your hopefully legal E-mtb, but you do realise “most” people buy them to make the riding easier not harder.”

    That sounds very much like the “people buy modern full-sus bikes to make riding easier” argument, when most people I know seem to buy them to allow them to progress their riding onto more difficult trails – and having developed those skills can then take less tolerant bikes down similarly difficult terrain.

    My ebike is mostly a time saver. It’s also handy when I’ve worn my legs out from doing too much riding and lifting.

    The first time I took it on a full turbo ride I was shocked at how mentally intense it was. Normally your brain gets to relax more when going uphill, but on full turbo there’s corners you’d never noticed when climbing unassisted.

    doomanic
    Full Member

    @georgesdad

    What really took me by surprise though was that the hate on the trails was tangible.

    Were you in breach of Rule 1? I don’t see any of that when I’m out on my milk float. I get the occasional “Give us a tow” but I’ve never had any abuse aimed at me. IME, the cry of “Bloody eBikes!” always comes from other eBikers on a wind up.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I get out four times a week on my regular MTB. My climbing speed has not gone up in years. It’s getting boring seeing no improvement at all. I don’t have the time to ride more than 4 times a week, and there is not enough local variety to justify riding any more than 4 times a week, so it would be boring pointless training to do any more miles than what I’m already doing.

    You don’t need more miles you need better training, if you want to improve. Training isn’t just riding a lot.

    Anyway, back on topic – I now hate e bikes. I’ve changed my mind. Today on the way out to the trails some little 15 year old tosser on what could easily have been a stolen e-bike complete with huge tyres and a coil shock passed me on the inside on the pavement as I slowed for the junction. He then shot off up the hill, and kept looking over his shoulder to see if I was still there. FFS you are on an e-bike what are you gloating about? Prick.

    If I wasn’t recovering from a cold I’d have chased him down, of course.

    taxi25
    Free Member

    That sounds very much like the “people buy modern full-sus bikes to make riding easier” argument, 

    I’ve never found that much of an argument really, just something to discuss on the internet when your bored. It’s been mentioned before numerous times, but to complete the circle I’ll say it again. Adding a motor to a bicycle is the single biggest evolution in cycling, ever. It changes the entire concept of what cycling is, and is bound to attract huge differences of opinion.
    Don’t mention uplifts either. Ever since bicycles were invented people have transported them to places they wish to ride. Uplifts use engines they don’t put one on the bike.

    ajantom
    Full Member

    Most people who I ride with get really demoralised going uphill. More recently some of them have started riding EBikes and they seem so much happier. There are some who can’t afford EBikes and they remain miserable.

    Jesus, if that’s even half true, then it’s bloody depressing.

    If your only reason for buying an ebike is to make yourself less depressed about uphills (and a dose of keeping up with the Jones’s) then find another **** hobby.

    singlespeedstu
    Full Member

    He then shot off up the hill, and kept looking over his shoulder to see if I was still there. FFS you are on an e-bike what are you gloating about? Prick.

    Take it as a compliment and carry on as normal.
    Maybe look at it like he thought you looked fit enough to keep up.
    I always say hello and try to have a chat with anyone that I pass or passes me no matter what bike either of us are on
    Passer/ passee/ebike/ no ebike makes no difference I’ve been in every one of these situations both uphill and down.
    I shrug my shoulder and carry on riding with my mates and don’t give it another thought.

    Blackflag
    Free Member

    There are some who can’t afford EBikes and they remain miserable.

    If it makes them miserable, why have they gone on the ride? If I didn’t enjoy it id go the pub instead.

    adamthekiwi
    Free Member

    I’m not sure I understand where all the hate comes from, myself.

    There are *loads* of e-bikes of all stripes here in Wellington – maybe not so surprising given the wind and the hills. I’m a fan, personally, even though I don’t want one for myself – at least partly because both of the last two commutes home along the Hutt Road, into the teeth of a northerly, I’ve been able to tuck in behind an e-bike and get pulled along at a much better pace than I’d have managed myself! It is mildly demoralising to have a granny on an sit-up-and-beg blast past you like you’re standing still on the hills, though.

    Still, the more riders we have, the better; especially given how shit NZ drivers are.

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    When Anonymous started going on about 1%ers and 99%ers, it didn’t make me mad at the rich folk, it made me want to be a 1%er.

    I get the same feeling every time I see someone on an e-bike cruising up a hill I am pedalling up.

    hols2
    Free Member

    it made me want to be a 1%er.

    On a global scale, there’s a good chance you are. I am, it’s not as awesome as you would expect.

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