deanfbm

Member
Yet another video put out by embn selling the merits of ebiking, pick many an ebike video on YouTube, whether it be sam pilgrim or average Dave, flavoured with a twinge of insecure preaching even riders out on the trails. Quite happy to see the conclusion gmbn presenter came to, they’re fine, just stop telling me they’re the best form of mtbing.

Ebikes are great at what they do, theres no questioning it, they’re their own fun. Had an ebike, sold it and got a dh bike, something way more pointless, I have some fun way less often, but when i have the fun on the dh bike, or even the trail bike, the fun is 10 fold, quantity versus quality. Do i feel the need to ramn in people’s faces that what I’ve chosen is the best, no, that’s just silly.

Well you’ve just rammed this thread in my face, so there is that.. 😆

Why should anyone give a **** what anyone else rides?

I’m firmly in the “just shut and ride what you like” camp. Speaking as someone with a 15 year old hardtail that takes 26″ wheels and has a 1 1/8 headset. I’ve spent the last 10 years not being bothered by different wheel sizes, geometry, suspension and now e-bikes.

If these videos get you that hot under the collar, the problem is not with the videos

Ebikes are for the unfit and infirm in the same way that fat bikes are for snow and sand.

Now, I love an E-fatbike.

Why should anyone give a **** what anyone else rides?

Well said!

Main bone of contention is down to the fact that they sell motorbikes through bike forums and mags.

So yes, motorbikes are being rammed down people’s throats when they have zero interest in owning or riding motorbikes.

I don’t give a sh1t what motorbikes motocross riders ride and I’m happy for them to enjoy their sport – but then they don’t turn up on bike forums, bike magazines and in bike articles.

I *do* come across them on mountains though – so is it fair game that they should turn up here? They’re non-human-powered bikes like ebikes, and that, now, seems fair game to a lot of people.

An ebike is a LOT closer to a bike than a motorcross bike though, but then you already know that.

They are also slower than a human powered bike if the human is a very fit one which cannot be said for any motorbike.

I was waiting for that @Kerley.

The fact is – the dividing line for a lot of people is non-human-powered.

You can whine about that all you like – but they’re still motorbikes. They’re not as powerful motorbikes, yes, but they’re still motorbikes.

Your second sentence is whataboutery of the worst kind. You have to reach for justification – any justification – and it’s the sign of a weak argument when you point to an extreme, rather than the norm.

In terms of trail use and the granting of additional rights to bikes on England and Wales’ footpath network – bikes are already an anathema to a large section of the voting public and hated even more by some foot-bound special interest groups. Ebikes make the case for opening up trailes harder because their motor-power enables unsafe noobs access to places they’d never have dreamed of reaching before.

So yes, if you replace a car with an ebike, or if you’re ill, old or infirm then there’s a place for them. Knock yourselves out. But they’re 100% motorbikes – and if that’s your “I’m fit” go-to source of fun then fair game too.

But their motor-power is 100% why there’s hate for them – and they feature here because manufacturers know that a fair chunk of the buying public don’t make that distinction and they give zero eff’s about the forums and magazines that are about biking – as effectively Singletrack/MBR/pinkbike <insert bike mag here> are just sales outlets anyway.

They’re non-human-powered bikes like ebikes

Tell me, how does an ebike, as defined by the law (rather than your fantasy of what they are), work without human power?

Are you aware of the fundamental difference that E-Bikes are human powered whereas a motorbike isn’t .

I would buy one tomorrow if I could afford a decent one, instead I may have to give up due to auld age and aching joints

Well there’s the thing, they’re not really for the elderly and infirm are they?

I mean the benefits are there obviously for the creaky kneed and weak of heart, but the way they’re marketed and priced makes it pretty clear that they’re aimed at the the more affluent (or well credit scored) 30something new golfers.

The justification is typically presented that Gary from accounting can can pull one from the back of his premium German motor and whip round his local trailcentre in 30 minutes because he has to squeeze some #lifestylebiking into his packed routine. Oh and he will be getting a non-ebike just as soon as his fitness improves… Bolleux.

It’s a toy, fine enjoy your toys but let’s not kid ourselves that it’s not just the latest industry hype-train at work rather than some benevolent effort by specialized and Bosch to get old duffers out and about. If you’ve got the money they’ve got an E-dandyhorse with your name on it.

And yes I am happy to try and avoid the marketing fluff online, but the old Al-gore-rhythms don’t seem to be able to distinguish between my genuine interest in ‘proper’ bikes and E-twattery, so every few days the topic pops up unsolicited. Ebikes, please eff off until I’m cash rich, time poor and fatter!

Are you aware of the fundamental difference that E-Bikes are human powered whereas a motorbike isn’t.

I will pay good money to see you charge an ebike with your own “human power” alone, I presume you’ve got a 3 pin outlet somewhere on your person…

But their motor-power is 100% why there’s hate for them

That’s just the people who believe riding is just the action of turning the cranks.
That’s why you find that the people who can actually ride a bit tend to like them.

Oh and he will be getting a non-ebike just as soon as his fitness improves… Bolleux.

I’ve bought four normal bikes since buying my ebike, which was the catalyst for me getting fitter.

I presume you’ve got a 3 pin outlet somewhere on your person…

I’ve got 2 pins that stick out of my arse that I use to turn the pedals that make it go, whether it has charge or not.

“you don’t see hi-fi mags trying to cross-sell you televisions”

Yes you do. Since the ‘90s there has been increasing amounts of video related stuff in hi-fi mags and in hi-fi shops.

I’ve bought four normal bikes since buying my ebike, which was the catalyst for me getting fitter.

Fascinating… You should probably make a documentary.

The fact is – the dividing line for a lot of people is non-human-powered.

You know that the legal and literal description of ebike/pedelec that we are discussing here is a motor-assisted pedal-cycle

ie a hybridised vehicle, powered by both rider and a motor up to (in the UK) 15mph.

Yourbsecond sentence is whataboutery of the worst kind. You have to reach for justification – any justification – and it’s the sign of a weak argument when you point to an extreme, rather than the norm.

You mean like pointing to an actual motorbike rather than a motor-assisted pedal-cycle?

It’s a shame you are being so extreme because I actually share your concerns about access. I also have my own concerns about injury and infirmity limiting me to a car and tarmac. As soon as one’s regular cycling activity has ceased or is on hold for whatever reason, the rot sets in fast unless you can find a way to keep on pedalling.

the dismissal of people who don’t want motorbikes being sold via channels which were previously about a 100% human-powered sport

Who gives a shit what channels they are sold by? I’ll dismiss that idea because it’s patently stupid; about nothing but pride and searching for superiority.

Re the powered vehicles have no place on bridleways thing: I scared an old lady in the trails the other week, to my shame. I wasn’t on an ebike. It was downhill. Most riders are easily capable of antisocial riding, ebikes don’t come into it.

Lol – two of you reaching hard for ebikes being human powered. I’ve ridden them too you know.

Yep, you can spin the pedals – but if they’re “human powered” then why do they have a motor?

They’re motorbikes – as much as you whiners don’t like to hear that.

The fact that (most) e-mtb’s require a bit of pedalling to enable the motors to lay down power is just design – the motors don’t need it – as defined by law @tomhoward.

Ebike is a marketing term. Electric motorbike is what they are.

It’s a legal classification and a name that most people understand. If I tell people I have a motorbike they won’t think of a 250W ebike will they? You’re onto a loser here, you look a prat, plus it’s a totally pointless argument. Find a better use for your time.

troll lols. Disengage. Disengage.

molgrips

It’s a legal classification and a name that most people understand

You’d think so. IMO it’s a shame that The term ‘ebike’ has so far been used as a catch-all term for everything from a low-powered pedelec – to a throttled electric motorbike with (seemingly) vestigial pedals. Legal definitions for emerging EV classifications (such as the L1e-A class mentioned above) will surely muddy the waters further.

You can whine about that all you like – but they’re still motorbikes. They’re not as powerful motorbikes, yes, but they’re still motorbikes.

Your second sentence is whataboutery of the worst kind. You have to reach for justification – any justification – and it’s the sign of a weak argument when you point to an extreme, rather than the norm.

No whining here, they are simply not motorbikes. You seem to be the only person here who thinks they are so that should be telling for you.

And I don’t need to reach for any justification, I don’t even ride an ebike and can’t see me ever riding one. They are the antithesis of what I ride ( a brakeless fixed gear) but that doesn’t mean I have to be against them.

I remember back to the early 80s when all the Windsurfing and Surfing mags were inundated with adverts for these new fangled bikes called mountain bikes. Most of the reps trying to sell them were trawling round the Windsurfing shops trying to get them to stock them as the bike shops were too stuck in their ways and laughing at them as the next fad.
We had to travel quite some way to buy one then and it was from a Windsurfing shop.
Bit of deja vu going on here

Jeez the trolling on here is becoming a ballsache again

Interesting that article Chevy.

Particularly this, more recent, link from it.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/electric-bikes-uk-law-234973.

No whining here, they are simply not motorbikes. You seem to be the only person here who thinks they are so that should be telling for you.

Their bicycles with a motor that assists pedalling. Plenty of people would view them as being a type of motorbike even if their aren’t legally classified as a “motorbike”. They just can’t be bothered joining in the inevitable circular argument.

Ebike is a marketing term. Electric motorbike is what they are.

No, they’re not.

This is.

I remember back to the early 80s when all the Windsurfing and Surfing mags were inundated with adverts for these new fangled bikes called mountain bikes.

LOL 🙂 yes, remember that well, early 80’s was peak of my windsurfing and was doing a bit of national stuff, Roger Tushingham, Lester Noble and the squad pushing what became later ‘Orange Bikes’…..

“I remember back to the early 80s when all the Windsurfing and Surfing mags were inundated with adverts for these new fangled bikes called mountain bikes”

In my old job I remember being quite confused when taking on a client called Surf Sales who solely imported mountain bike stuff… Then I got another coastal business who did the same, and another and it all started to make sense!

Right, while you lot are flogging this old horse to death I’m going out for a ride. Not sure which bike I’ll be taking yet, but I can guarantee it will be more fun than arguing about it!

FYI if you put near zero effort in when pedalling a legal ebike it moves at approximately walking speed.

The fastest it will travel with assistance is 15.5mph and that takes quite some effort – unless you’re going downhill, but normal bikes go equally fast (and also can far exceed that 15.5mph limit) downhill.

From the points of view of safety, noise, emissions etc a legal ebike is clearly far more akin to a bicycle than even a 50cc (30mph restricted) motorbike. That’s from personal experience as well as how the law has chosen to categorise them.

But a select few people will choose to focus solely on the addition of a small and low power motor. It’s silly but I’m sure their forbears did the same when someone put a big wheel on the front of an early bike, then sprockets and a chain, then gears, etc.

I love the way a lot of the argument against eBikes is based on “what-if” and actual electric motorbikes rather than legal eBikes {pedalecs).

The reality is a legal eBike is fun for those who don’t need one, and a boon for those who do need them.

There’s enough of them around now that you’d think there would be reams of evidence for the predicted doom and gloom what-ifs, but where is it?

I don’t have one, don’t want one, but fun they are.

As a side effect we’ll see an evolution in bike parts like better brakes, more robust tyres etc etc. What’s not to like about that?

The reality is a legal eBike is fun for those who don’t need one, and a boon for those who do need them.

Sums it up very well in one line. Don’t get all preachy about it though 🙂

this thread can’t really be complaining that EMBN posted a video about Electric mountainbikes….. can it?

I’ve some some stupid in my time. But that’s impressive 😆

Very impressive!

Can’t believe I’m getting drawn into this but, surely the difference between a motorbike and an ebike is that a motorbike will travel up hill with no human effort involved(other than control) whereas an ebike won’t?

I’ve only had one very brief go on an ebike and I enjoyed it. Friend came to the pub on it and I took it for a quick blast up the hill behind the pub. I was still breathing hard when I got to the top(granted I had just necked four pints) and could feel the effort in my legs but I got to the top in a fraction of the time it normally takes me on the bike and had fun doing it. Same hill is usually at the start of most of my rides from home and I normally find it a real drag at the start of a ride. I can certainly see the attraction/potential.

FYI if you put near zero effort in when pedalling a legal ebike it moves at approximately walking speed.

Yeaa……..

Nope.

Let’s be honest, even the lowest assistance level takes someone of average fitness and makes them the exception in pretty much any group. The ‘turbo’ mode gives an FTP that would trouble pro tour roadies.

You’re kinda right through, pressing the walking speed button does take near zero effort.

Even my OH, who has a membership at a gym that sells gin and tonics from a bar by the pool, can ride her eMTB up a hill* faster than I can get up it on my road bike.

*caveat, the hill needs to be steep enough that I can’t maintain 15.5mph, so Britwell hill rather than Pishill.

Does it actually matter that people can ride faster on an ebike?

You can put as much or as little effort in as you like on either so as long as you’re enjoying yourself who gives a sh1t?

“Does it actually matter that people can ride faster … as long as you’re enjoying yourself who gives a sh1t?”

The ramblers, who are already upset that you’re sharing paths with them, are more upset when you blast past at 15mph than they are when you puff past at 3 (or are pushing). Those same people who are organised, have a history of campaigning for their rights and are local councillors in their spare time.

Nothing wrong with ebikes. Plenty wrong with some cyclists.

Your last line seems to contradict the ramblers paragraph. Ramblers get upset about the fact I dare to ride a bike on their gravel roads and they take up the whole width by walking 8 abreast.

Not sure where the ebike relevance comes into it as I would be riding the same 15mph on an bike as I do on my fixed gear bike. Using ramblers as a gauge is never the right thing to do.

@ajaj As well as being a MTBer, I am also a rambler(prefer the term hiker or walker myself unless you are refering to the Association) and a local councillor who has done a lot of work in relation to local rights of way. But, above all else I believe in live and let live.