I don’t speed, always slow enough to stop in the distance I can see easily. Anyone who grew up or lives in rural areas knows there can be a tonne of meat round any corner at any time or worse the spiky end of a tractor. Even at night.

What we’re discussing here is not excessive speed, it’s more awareness of your surroundings, the vehicle you’re driving and common courtousy. The ones that cause issues are the ones who do speed, don’t make mental notes of the passing places you’ve just passed, don’t know the width of their own vehicles, don’t pay attention to the road (looking at the view, thinking it’s a race track) and cannot reverse to save their lives.

I used to live in Glen Coe, my neighbour pulled on to the verge to let a someone pass. Verge gave way under him and broke the back axle on his car. Since then I’ve been a lot more circumspect about pulling aside anywhere except at passing place.

A lot of people are crap drivers and rarely venture on to those types of roads so they just don’t know how to drive on them.

There are usually only 2 types of drivers on those roads. People who rarely drive on them and therefore have very little idea of how to do so safely and locals who drive it all the time and know (or think they know…) every ripple in the road and are used to belting along it at 50mph.

Faced with anything untoward – like a cyclist on the road – the first type will either try and push through regardless or be exaggeratedly careful. The second type will usually be apoplectic that something has slowed their normal thrash along “their” road.

Maybe on the NC 500 (narrower bits) they need to put length/width restrictions?

Hope none of the locals ever need a delivery, drive a minibus or similar.

I spent 5 years driving 17 seat minibus and trailers of canoes up and down a Highland single-track road, along with the truck company in the village. We never had an issue with our drivers, or indeed vast majority of locals.

I had one visitor in a Smart car tell me he couldn’t reverse to the passing place (flat, straight, about 20m) and the real issue was my oversised minibus that was in appropriate for the country lane…just glad he didn’t meet aforementioned farmer in his HGV…

I tend to ride in the centre until they show they are going to move over and then go thru the gap they leave – even if its a bit small

I adopt this with any other vehicle than a tractor and for most of the time it’s successful although a couple of weeks ago when I was met by a red Audi convertible. The driver commented that I must have some sort of death wish. I laughed at her and said that unless she slowed down her only other option was to leave the road or drive right over me. She drove away shaking her head.
I can only hope that if she ever meets another cyclist on a singletrack road she may drive with a bit of consideration.

Maybe on the NC 500 (narrower bits) they need to put length/width restrictions?

There is a sign at the turn off on the road over the beallach into Applecross, it says ‘unsuitable for campervans, do not….etc etc’

Most sunny weekends it’s blocked with a campervan at some point, when they reach the top sharp bend and can’t get round they can’t go back, so everything coming the other way has to adjust for them, sometimes also the wall and the side of the vehicle for the longer ones, but they keep coming.

This road sign?

^ that is the one. 😃

To be fair, there’s a second sign at that end and a completely un-stickered one at that other end. We still passed an overheating 6-wheel camper going up from Applecross.

I travelled to Mull and rode extensively across the island for the second time this year. Although some of the roads and scenery were great I’d really think twice about returning there for cycling as the roads were really not safe given the quality of driving witnessed. The vast majority of drivers are fine and respectful, and I always go out of my way to constantly check behind and pull in when on the bike into passing places even if it means waiting a bit. What ruined it is a few drivers of huge tourist SUV’s who had no idea of the width of their vehicle driving straight at one at pace, not deviating speed or position an inch – probably because they’re not actually that in control of their vehicle – and forcing one off the edge of the road. As often the side of the roads drop away to rocks/ rubble there was one instance of narrowly avoiding a big crash for me…but the SUV would have been fine so one can’t expect them to GAS. The other observation though is that there were a few encounters with local delivery drivers and workmen in vans that were deliberately being ridiculously aggressive with other road users in car or on bike, presumably because they didn’t want visitors there during a pandemic..to a level of intimidation I’ve not been subject to anywhere before. If these places want to milk the tourist dollar, then they’d do well to sort out the infrastructure and educate some driving standards. Came away thinking the place has the potential to be a cycling haven, much like Mallorca created by investing in the roads…but as it is it’s not that great. Other idea that sprung to mind is to force drivers to leave their cars on the mainland and they could use a fleet of tiny electric vehicles only for the Island, that could transform it. Same goes for Skye.

I bet the drivers arse was twitching as he rolled into those barriers 😀

Even experienced drivers get it wrong.

endoverend – totally not my experience riding on mull. Safest road riding I have ever done

2 numpties in suvs that were rude but not dangerous. Locals all courteous. Truck and bus drivers very professional.

The other observation though is that there were a few encounters with local delivery drivers and workmen in vans that were deliberately being ridiculously aggressive with other road users in car or on bike,

Never seen that happen. I have seen people who do not know how to drive / ride on single track roads getting upset because their perception of what is going on is so warped ie they cannot cope with what is perfectly normal and safe on single track roads

I should just add that unsolicited feedback from foreign visitors who come over and hire bikes to ride the Hebrides, NC500 etc is unfailaingly excellent about driving standards. Most mention how courteous our drivers are – and these are folk from cultures we’d normally associate with a better relationship between drivers and cyclists.

It might have just been an anomaly but I had 4 separate experiences that would’ve been worth reporting to the police in the space of a week, if I wasn’t on holiday and couldn’t be RSed -and thats from having been used to commuting on bike in London every day. It was just after lockdown ended so I put it down to people being excessively stressed out. Some of those roads on the NorthWest coast and Centrally are amazing. Safest road riding I’ve ever done was on wide smooth roads in quiet parts of the Pyrenees where one barely saw another car for hours on end…the experience of riding anywhere on our regressive stick of uk rock is quite far removed from that.

Even experienced drivers get it wrong

Judging by the stickers on the sign it looks more like some see it as a challenge, and a few seem to have taken it upon themselves to set up camp on top, beside the sign that says no campervans.

endoverend

I wonder if ( and this is not meant as a criticism) that some of what you experienced was down to the different cycling styles needed in london and on the rural single track roads.

almost confrontation v co operation. How you need to ride in london ( and other cities ie assertively and forcefully) clashes with the riding style needed to smooth the way on those tiny roads

Or maybe as you said you were unlucky but I have ridden a lot on single track roads in the highlands and never encountered what you describe at all

the only issue I have ever had is numpties in 4x4s that cannot drive [properly on those roads

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTtoUd2sX7k/

This local Instagram has kept us entertained in North Devon over the summer.

As mentioned above, there are a lot of people in cars that have no idea how to reverse in a straight line.

Endoverend – interesting observation, you do realise that Mull is 50 miles end-to-end? I’m happy to let the trades and delivery drivers through but some of the worst driving I’ve seen are pensioners flashing their lights, indicators on just to turn off in the next village. One problem is people come here with a ‘make progress’ driving attitude.

I’ve just come back from a 3 hour ride around the top of Mull – Tobermory, Dervaig, Achleck, Calgary, Dervaig and home – blue skies, fluffy white clouds and a westerly wind to blow me home. The descent from Creag a` Chromain along the coast into Calgary is just awesome – probably one of the nicest roads I’ve ridden in the UK and stunning views across to The Treshnish Isles, Coll and Tiree. Relatively little traffic and everyone driving cordially. In comparison to riding in the south of England where I used to live, it’s paradise!

cracking ride that dovebiker – I did it a couple of weeks ago.

Being Scottish, and of a certain age, I’ve known how to drive these roads since, oh, 6 years of age or so?

Just to be clear, I don’t live in London anymore and live up the Northern end of Englandshire in a place with single track roads on the doorstep, so am well versed in the art of tractor/ 4×4/ ballistic farm pick-up truck avoidance techniques. Most of the roads round ‘ere are in an even worse state..which is saying something. I still found the roads on Mull quite dangerous though, particularly the main loop road on the East side and towards the South peninsula where the roads are more open, it’s possible to be going fairly fast on the road bike here but with the constant need to duck into a passing place and get the braking done on the inevitably loose surface. I guess at some point there may have been some conscious decision to keep the main roads narrow to actually keep traffic speeds lower, which is a good idea… but I got the sense that if the roads were just a foot wider it’d be all that was needed to allow cars/vans to safely pass cyclists, but also realise what that would cost and why it ain’t gonna happen.

Fair enough

I rode all the way round the island – basically its entire road network and found th eroads to be the safest I have ridden on.

Odd our experience should be so different I think I only went into a passing place half a dozen times in 4 days riding.

I tend to ride in the centre until they show they are going to move over and then go thru the gap they leave – even if its a bit small

1:20 in, really scared me this one.

My parents used to live on an estate which was accessed via a single track road, with passing spaces. Generally worked fine if cars went through in 2 as they could both pull into parking spaces. Problem was when you had groups of 4 cars both trying to get through in both directions.

Best one was that the last 100 yards had good visibility but no passing spaces. So before you entered the single-track road you could see if it was clear. A few times as I was about to come out of the single-track had people trying to drive in. Was funny just stopping, turning the engine off and folding arms, until they reversed. Got called a few choice names 🤣

But yeah in the peak District you get some interesting driving. Almost had a Merc Sprinter rear end me the other day as I stopped to let a car clear a single track road, before I entered it.

yeah, that video is essentially what happened to me but mine was a tiny lady barely able to see out of her massive Range Rover coming full pelt towards me at speeds inappropriate for the road. She barely had time to react let alone stop in the visible distance and actually flinched the behemoth towards me – only difference was for me the edge of the road dropped away to a pile of rocks a metre below…mm’s from broken bone certainty. Shat me up good and proper.

Pet hate on single track roads and streets with lots of parked cars. People blindly following car I front not seeing if there is room for them on next hop

This. And cos you only need parked cars it’s a problem pretty much everywhere. DO NOT FOLLOW ME. YOU ARE NOT ME. YOU CANNOT FIT IN THE GAP I AM ABOUT TO PULL INTO.

There are quite a few single track roads around me in this part of Cheshire and the number of people who drive just past a passing spot and are then entirely unable to reverse back into it, nor can judge the width of their vehicles is staggering.

Always give way to the drivers coming uphill whenever it’s possible. If needs be you should reverse until you reach a location where both vehicles have enough room to pass.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! How can reversing back up a steep hill be preferable to just gently reversing back down a short section of hill into a passing place twenty feet behind, in fact the car wouldn’t even need to be put in reverse, just foot on clutch and roll back.
I’ve been in that exact situation on the Fosseway, several miles from Castle Combe. I was on a short section that’s about 1:6, with a blind right hand bend halfway down to where the road crosses a stream with several parking and passing places. I came around the bend to find a car coming uphill towards me, having just passed a passing point about twenty feet behind. The nearest passing place behind me was over a quarter mile back uphill, around the blind bend. The dimwit driver just sat, waiting for me to burn my clutch out trying to reverse back up the hill, so I got out and pointed out just how dangerous it was, expecting someone to do what he was expecting me to do, and I said I’d get in and reverse his car back if he wouldn’t do it.
At which point he gently rolled back into the passing place, letting me pass, which is what he should have done in the first place.
I don’t give a toss what the Highway Code says, it’s dangerous and irresponsible behaviour to expect someone to reverse back up a steep, dark hill when an easily accessed passing place is a car’s length behind.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/mFFySs
#googleearth

This is the section seen from above, and this is actually driving it as I was. There are two passing places at the top, the next is the one at the bottom just as the camera car comes up behind the other small car, which is the one the muppet couldn’t roll back a car’s length into.

https://earth.app.goo.gl/8mRzBU
#googleearth

Just imagine trying to reverse back up there the find a tractor and trailer coming round the bend behind, which they do, there’s a bunch of farms along that road.

@tjagain

I would agree with you about a different riding style in rural places to city.

That said, we had a punishment pass on Islay and deliberately driven at / car ignored passing place a few metres ahead of us on Jura.

On Jura we also had a lecture from a resident on the ferry about the highway code/law saying that bikes *have* to pull over for all traffic and that bikes should not be on the island roads as we didn’t pay road tax. This from a self catering host….I do wonder if the relaxed and friendly attitude I’ve experienced for the last three decades of cycling in Scotland is changing.

..

Not in my experience Matt – I find it better than years ago.

AA – thats nasty and deliberate

AA – thats nasty and deliberate

Proper shook me up, which takes a lot. Not sure it was deliberate though which is even more worrying as it was some little old lady.
Hampshire Police seem unconcerned!

Generally I find non-locals crap at both making progress and maintaining safety, at the same time. And on a bike when it comes to tractors and other large vehicles, the best thing to do is forget your right of way (physics doesn’t care) and put down your ego, and get out of the way/stop so you try to control when the pass happens.

From previous conversations I remember people have vastly different (and wrong) understandings of what a “country lane” means, all the way from a proper country lane (single track, 1ft each side of a car) to a non-trunk A-road with centre line markers.

People going into passing places on the wrong side of the road, instead of stopping opposite them, always amuses me. Only makes sense if the other vehicle is too long to fit in the passing place.

Another nice one I had in Scotland a few years back. Articulated lorry meets stream of a few cars, passing place is too short for either. Cars passed in batches through the passing place, with the lorry moving back and forth to let them in and out of it.

Now and again I get tired of waiting for a hopeless reverser and just flash/beep/wave them to come along, I’ll just reverse however much it takes quicker than they will. A few times I have needed to step out to guide someone through a gap (driving forwards) with plenty of space on each side.

I wish people knew to turn their headlights off at night while waiting for the oncoming car to reverse.

Living just above the cobbled section in Settle it’s always a bit of a lottery at busy times. A few hundred metres of narrow road round blind bends up a steep hill with poorly parked cars all over the place. One of these days I suspect the weight of traffic will exceed the throughput and the queue will just build and build. I’ve seen the police tow a car when the farm vehicles simply didn’t fit the gap they’d left.

Living just above the cobbled section in Settle it’s always a bit of a lottery at busy times. A few hundred metres of narrow road round blind bends up a steep hill with poorly parked cars all over the place.

@thecaptain – no way, my sister used to live up there! Yes, parking was always a bit of a lottery and I witnessed more than one stand-off along that street of road. Usually while riding my bike or walking the dog calmly past the angry motorists.

@tjagain

Both big shiny 4x4s who would not put a wheel onto the flat grass to let us past.

Not a great idea recommending people do this. It damages the verges (which could be quite fragile machair) and cars can also get stuck/damaged if it’s soft.

This is why people don’t want to do it, but in a 4×4 you will still have two wheels on the tarmac.
I drive a 4×4 VW Golf and often have to do this to prevent a stalemate. My biggest concern is dropping into a hole or a covered drainage ditch or something similar.

cracking ride that dovebiker – I did it a couple of weeks ago.

Me too! The descent into Dervaig is a cracker, who needs Alpe d’Huez?

Not a great idea recommending people do this

Agree with rugbydick here as quoted. I live on a single track and by midwinter the whole road is a muddy mess because the verges have been destroyed instead of proper use of the passing places.

I agree on never using verge, only proper passing places.

We had all sorts of folk chuck cars in ditches accidently. They either find soft mud or vegetation overgrown the ditch.

I have had others frustrated as I reverse or otherwise refuse to go on verge – but I’ve pulled too many folk out of verges and seen too much damage to risk it.

It’s also crap for the environment and leaves the road liable to water and ice damage.

OK – Ill take a telling on that one. Its how I have always seen it done. Many of the verges have a gravel base and are not machair at all but I take the point.

1:20 in, really scared me this one.

‘kinell man, that was close.

On Jura we also had a lecture from a resident on the ferry about the highway code/law saying that bikes *have* to pull over for all traffic and that bikes should not be on the island roads as we didn’t pay road tax.

I’ve had this argument like three times in the last week. As I’m sure most readers know,

1) road tax was abolished in 1937 and

2) if that weren’t the case, I still own a car so yes I do.

People going into passing places on the wrong side of the road, instead of stopping opposite them, always amuses me. Only makes sense if the other vehicle is too long to fit in the passing place.

I’m not sure as I follow your logic here. If it’s a single track road then surely there is no “wrong side of the road,” there’s just road?