The other night I was on an unfamiliar road, I wasnt driving like a loon but I misjudged a corner and took it too fast. With the damp slightly muddy road I skidded, overcorrected and then slalomed a bit. ESP light was flashing and eventually after a couple of seconds was back on course. Quite scary and made me think about my driving!

Anyway, what’s the best thing to do in a situation like that, just try and steer round the corner? Should I be trying to correct the skid? Braking? lessons from Surf Mat ,😂 Is trying to correct the skid making it more difficult for the ESP?

Thanks

IANAAO

Presumably drive as usual and let the ESP do it’s stuff.

^ basically that. It’s 100’s of times faster than any of us are.

forget the ESP is even there and correct it and then the ESP should help to get it back in line. correcting it keeps the front wheels pointing in roughly the right direction.

also what did you do with the throttle, FWD you should floor it as thats helps pull the car straight and RWD just ease of it a little, coming suddenly right of the throttle destablises the rear even more

just thinking as i’ve never tried it but possibly ESP will not allow you add power in a FWD car, none of the fun cars i’ve had have had it.

Well it depends if the skid was oversteer or understeer! Flooring it in an FWD car if it’s understeering isn’t the answer

Yeah ESP is pretty damn clever.

Do the same corner but switch it off this time and see. NO DON’T.

Keep your speed constant though don’t panic and don’t try to be Colin and floor it. Unless you know what you’re doing it’ll end badly.

It’s there to help out and ESP is one of the best things ever introduced as it prevents fish-tailing. But it can’t undo mistakes, so when it kicks in try to follow the path of desired travel as it will correct any skids so try not to overcompensate. Easier said than done though!

Anyway, what’s the best thing to do in a situation like that,

Quickly turn ESP off and own that drift so hard you end up with paternity leave.

Turn it off, do a u-turn and go practice

Well it depends if the skid was oversteer or understeer! Flooring it in an FWD car if it’s understeering isn’t the answer

as he said “overcorrected and then slalomed a bit” i take that to mean oversteer.

^^^ I understeered to start with then oversteered trying to correct it i think. Front wheel drive car, I lifted off the throttle, don’t think I braked just tried to correct the skid (badly I think!)

First scary moment in a long long time, luckily was at night and nothing coming the other way. Think I was just a bit tired and not concentrating as much as usual, got a lot ony mind at the moment. Anyway it’s made me realise how lucky I was and aware of driving tired.

Actually I forgot, there was a casualty, my takeaway slid off the passenger seat onto the floor. Still edible but I’ve learnt another lesson, always use the little takeaway bag hookn in the passenger footwell!

I’ll start by confessing I am not a driving god. I can, however, get out of a skid reasonably.

Modern ESP is awesome, early incarnations not so much. I had a fairly early E46 BMW and the ESP on that was an absolute menace to anyone who had a slight clue how to recover a slide. Me included. Damp road with some camber and an enthusiastic right foot cause the rear to step out… eased off slightly and a dab of steering into it and all seemed well right up until the esp light came on and the car snapped the opposite way into a spin. I would have expected some fishtailing at that point but it was like an anchor was thrown out one side. Conversations with other owners revealed this was not uncommon.

understeer is horrible but i suppose it is safer, not that much you can do to control it other than come of the throttle and wait for grip to come back, straightening the steering in theroy helps also but your already heading in the wrong direction by that point. if the whole car is grip limited and understeering just coming of the throttle and finding grip again can easily snap it into oversteer.

just try and steer round the corner?

Pretty much all you can do. Just keep the front wheels pointing towards where you want to go and ease off the throttle gently. The electronics are massively faster than you and you don’t know which wheel(s) are starting to slip or why. All you can really do is minimize any abrupt changes in loadings on the tyres.

understeer is horrible but i suppose it is safer,

Much safer. Understeer is predictable. The natural reaction is to lift off the throttle when things go wrong so this will generally help with an understeering car. Oversteer is unpredictable. Despite every adult male fantacising that they are God’s gift to driving, oversteer is utterly lethal. I’m pretty sure that’s what happened to Frank Williams – Ford Sierra, lift off oversteer, sentenced to life in a wheelchair.

You need to slow down.

ESP kicking in is telling you that you have exceeded your abilities and your understanding of the capabilities of your car.

I can, however, get out of a skid reasonably.
…
an absolute menace to anyone who had a slight clue how to recover a slide. Me included.
…
cause the rear to step out… eased off slightly

One of these things is not like the others. If the rear is stepping out in a FWD car then the worst thing you can do is lift off, electronic assists aside.

If the rear end is stepping out in a FWD car on a public road, you are either driving like a total **** or have just ****ed up and are likely headed for a crash whatever you do. If you lift off the throttle and stand on the brakes as hard as you can, at least you will be travelling slightly slower when you crash.

No sudden inputs as you don’t want any big weight transfer as this will unsettle the car.

Sounds like you got lift of oversteer as you backed right off n moved the weight forward doing so.

Being smooth is always key.

The first thing is that ESPs have different names, ESC in a Skoda, DSC in a BMW, etc so read the handbook

Anyway, what’s the best thing to do in a situation like that, just try and steer round the corner?

Exactly that

also what did you do with the throttle

The ESP will usually take that out of your hands and in a FWD will reduce engine power

so when it kicks in try to follow the path of desired travel as it will correct any skids so try not to overcompensate. Easier said than done though!

This^^

it was like an anchor was thrown out one side

It applies the brakes to one wheel to bring the car back into line (inner rear for understeer)

ESP kicking in is telling you that you have exceeded your abilities and your understanding of the capabilities of your car.

Absolutely this^^ And if the tyres can’t grip then the system cannot undo your actions

+1 to let the electronics do thier thing while continuing to steer where you want to go and trying not to become streaky pants….

Another +1 to letting the car get on with it and keeping the steering pointing where you want to go. Steering angle is one of the inputs ESP will be looking at when it’s determining where you’re actually trying to go, applying opposite lock or whatever won’t help.

seriousrikk
Full Member
Modern ESP is awesome, early incarnations not so much

Old Clio 182 was great. As far as anyone can tell the ESP consisted of a light telling you that you were sliding 🙂

+1 thols2 & rusty

With ESP it is necessary to show your intent to computer – either brake or continue to direction pointed by the front wheels.

sounds to me like you went from power on understeer to lift off oversteer.  As above probably the best thing is to do very little – point the wheels where you want to go and a neutral throttle.  Easier said than done of course

If you lift off the throttle and stand on the brakes as hard as you can, at least you will be travelling slightly slower when you crash.

Not convinced by this – would it not trigger a spin?  Or are the electronics good enough to prevent that?

So you entered the corner a few mph too quickly, hey dont sweat it we’ve all been there. Some debris, water run off from feilds, gravel, sand etc was on the road, and it was dark and you can’t see round corners, everyone has done it.
The grip level from the tyre exceeded the grip levels from the surface, probably mid corner at the highest g loading, and the tyres started to slide.
At least you didn’t panic and hammer on the brakes, ypu did pretty much the right things. The car has tried to help, probably by cutting the throttle and modulating the brakes on the wheels that are now not rotating within the parameters set up by the, usually bosch, engineers.
This takes into account steering angles, and offset from the rotating wheels.
Sounds like you applied more steering angle, the car responded and ypu regained grip on cleaner tarmac, and the esp/dcs is still helping by feathering the brakes so when grip was restored you rapidly changed direction,
Still normal in a fwd car.
Rushing back with a takeaway, all the smell of hot food wafting around the cabin setting off hunger pangs, trying to get home whilst its still hot, yep very easily done.
The only thing ypu could have done was straighten the steering wheel to lesson the tyre slip angle and regain control, modern abs may have helped if you are confident with steering and braking with pedal juddering under your foot.

No one died or was harmed apary from the noodles and you’ll know next time that there might be debris on the apex of the corner and roll in 5mph slowet

Do what you think needs to be done with a little bit of throttle, the car will then decide whether to keep using that throttle or remove it, I could be wrong but without that throttle it can’t add it

Next time it snows, go out and practice then you know exactly how good these systems are

Check the depth of tread on your tyres just in case.

Well it depends if the skid was oversteer or understeer!

It would be another source that the skid is coming from 😆 as your life flashes before your eyes.

Not convinced by this – would it not trigger a spin? Or are the electronics good enough to prevent that?

If you’ve managed to get the rear wheels sliding on a FWD car without intending to, you have run out of grip. Electronics can’t find grip, they can only maximize the grip you have. If you steer into the slide and the rear wheels grip again, you now have your front wheels aiming the car off the road so you will launch yourself into the scenery. This is why oval track speedway cars are set up to understeer – if the rear of the car gets loose and you steer into the slide, you’ll fire yourself straight into a concrete wall. So, basically, you are probably going to crash unless the stability control sorts you out. Standing on the brakes as hard as you can will at least make the crash less severe. Assuming you have anti-lock brakes and stability control, those will monitor how much grip you have and adjust things as best it can. It shouldn’t pitch you into a spin unless you were already going to spin anyway. Even if you do spin, that will bleed off speed pretty quickly and make the resulting accident less severe.

Open the door and jump out.

Save yourself.

Panic and try to drive round the corner, the chances are ESP will save you or you really were going too fast. Spend the rest of the journey trying to work out WTF happened and concocting a great story about swerving to avoid a small kitten and then a dab of oppo to get around the nuns before driving off calmly and completely unflustered.

Works for me.

Open the door and jump out.

Not forgetting the delicious takeaway!

If you steer into the slide and the rear wheels grip again, you now have your front wheels aiming the car off the road so you will launch yourself into the scenery.

thats a fair exaggeration. Lots of fwd cars are relatively easy to recover a slide if you have a modicum of talent. sure, snapping back can occur (in any car, regardless of the drivetrain) if you have a lot of body movement and a lack of feel for the fact the tyres are starting to grip again, but I’ve only owned a fwd car with ESP for the last year (previous 18 years i’ve driven fwd without it) and never been launched into the scenery, despite losing the rear end on multiple occasions. my old signum would lose the back before the front on anything below mid-throttle, so would power oversteer round roundabouts (it might have been a bit broken)

sounds to me like you went from power on understeer to lift off oversteer

Ooo I did that, one time at band camp… It was in my first company car, a Peugeot 309 1.9 diesel donkey. ‘A’ road, driving too fast, tightening left hand bend and negative camber. The car started under steering into the middle so I lifted off and it just span…nose on into the bushes on my side of the road neatly parked between a telegraph pole and a tree. (cue angel music). A salutary lesson about driving like a prized prick.

No one’s mention 4wd. Presumably just ignore all the ESP excitement and carry on?

you’ve managed to get the rear wheels sliding

and then…

Standing on the brakes as hard as you can will at least make the crash less severe

Just don’t see how braking is going to help. No grip, no brakes?

. my old signum would lose the back before the front on anything below mid-throttle, so would power oversteer round roundabouts (it might have been a bit broken)

Very broken by the sound of things and its simply impossible for a FWD car to power oversteer

No one’s mention 4wd. Presumably just ignore all the ESP excitement and carry on?

i have to try really, really hard to get the ESP light to come on in my subaru…

i have to try really, really hard to get the ESP light to come on in my subaru

I was driving on ice/snow a day or so ago. Nothing exciting, just getting out of the car park at the ski chalet. The exit was quite steep and thick with frozen snow/ice. I did my usual ‘momentum is your friend’ and it wiggled about a bit then escaped onto the public road. Just wondered if I should be doing something different.