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Drinking coffee? Please make it a fairly traded coffee!
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tacopowellFree Member
Simple really, Starbucks, Costa, Nero all taste terrible,
McDonald’s is fair trade coffee but its McDonald’s so it’s gonna taste like stale piss.Seriously though, if you can, watch Black Gold, documentary film on the relationship between coffee drinkers, coffee traders and the coffee farmers, please please do, was on Netflix but I think it’s finished already.
The film opened my mind to how important it is support fairly traded products, highlights the rich shitting on the poor, particularly frustrating when it needn’t be that way.
neilsonwheelsFree MemberMaccy D’s coffee is well priced, tastes OK and they have wifi, clean toilets and ample parking. I wouldn’t want it on a daily basis but on a road trip the golden arches are my coffee shop of choice.
I’ll give the film a watch later.
Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...ScottCheggFree MemberWhittards refuse to sign up to Fairtrade as it’s pricefixing with a conscience.
So, thanks for the guilt trip, but I’ll drink what I like.
polyFree MemberMy coffee officianado friend tells me that McDonalds coffee actually tastes much better that you expect.
I’m a bit cynical about the “fair trade” thing… its a bit like ‘free range eggs’ isn’t it? What I mean is someone has created a standard that we define as “fair trade” but I think you can safely assume that people in the UK making the buying decisions on coffee, sugar, chocolate etc, still wouldn’t work in the conditions that you get in ‘fair trade’. Perhaps “a little bit fairer trade” might be a better name!
Now of course a lot of the world’s crops don’t get bought by consumers, but are processed into other products – and just like the eggs that make your mayonnaise are probably bought on price not ethics. Fair trade prices are (usually) set regionally or nationally – which means it is still easier to exploit the poorest countries to produce our products.
There are strong arguments for producing our food locally – not flying it in from the otherside of the world, but I can buy Kenyan runner beans with a fair trade logo but not UK or french ones. Obviously this might not be possible for coffee – but generally speaking it would be better for the environment – and the economy if we sourced goods closer to home. Indeed if you wanted to make the ‘world better’ and make yourself healthier at the same time you’d probably stop drinking coffee altogether! Of course that might force coffee farmers into producing other crops… …perhaps drugs – where exploitation applies throughout the supply chain.
Is it not all a “social construct” to let middle class people feel better about themselves, whilst providing a comfortable income for the various administrators of the system that protects “the poor” from exploitation – whilst presumably the person answering the phone at Fair Trade HQ still gets paid significantly more that the guy picking the beans? I’m not suggesting that we shouldn’t be concerned about where our food comes from or the standards of production – but is the answer really to look for a little magic label? I don’t necessarily object to the labelling approach but I do object to being lectured at by anyone who decides that my ethics are not the same as theirs. Still if a little green and blue label makes you feel better about yourself on you go.
tacopowellFree MemberI’ve found McDonald’s to be hit & miss, when’s good, it’s okay, when its bad, it’s really bad.
Your choice, that’s why I mention the documentary, anyone with an ounce of decent morals (morals are opinions, again your choice!) would reconsider their choice.
Just trying to spread the word to help fellow humans getting from getting shat on!
grumFree MemberStill if a little green and blue label makes you feel better about yourself on you go.
Easy to be cynical about everything and use that as an excuse for making no effort whatsoever to exercise moral choices. Not saying fair trade is a magical solution but your attitude is a bit of a cop-out IMO.
tacopowellFree MemberPoly,
Fair points and that’s why I specifically mentioned “fairly traded” over “fair trade”
Many cooperative farmers get a much better deal over “fair trade”
The simple fact is global export/import will continue, let’s support the poor folk from been pissed on.
Also agree on buying local, if everyone in the country purchased the British equivalent from this, I’m sure we’d be in a much better situation, economically & ecologically
leffeboyFull MemberJust trying to spread the word to help fellow humans getting from getting shat on!
Not a bad summary really. Fair trade may not be perfect but it is still better than straight aid and way better than nothing.
zokesFree MemberAlso agree on buying local, if everyone in the country purchased the British equivalent from this, I’m sure we’d be in a much better situation, economically & ecologically
I very much doubt, even before the major decline in manufacturing in the UK, that there was capacity to produce the wants and needs of all 60m Brits without importing from China.
tacopowellFree MemberI very much doubt, even before the major decline in manufacturing in the UK, that there was capacity to produce the wants and needs of all 60m Brits without importing from China.
Yeah probably, was just making an oversized point.
Rich_sFull MemberISTR reading in the ‘Eye that when Kenco went Fairtrade, their annual spend on coffee increased by £140k. Guess how much they spent on advertising that they were now trading with the logo? £14 million…
Black Gold indeed!
chewkwFree MemberI avoid fair trade whenever possible because:
1. some taste shite. (think Green & Black chocolate is the only item I think taste good. Forget coffee beans … I am not buying that!)
2. they can be priced higher – my hard earn blood money drain away … no they are not getting it.
3. it’s very PC.
4. I hate being referred to as an unfair person for buying non-fair trade products. If you really want to be fair then charge me 50% less.
5. another form of benchmark that benefits the few.
TooTallFree MemberGiven that Starbucks has been running CAFE for years and are the biggest buyer of Fair Trade Certified coffee in the world, and Costa has it’s own Foundation charity, there is more than one way to ‘do the right thing’ and more than one source for information.
TooTallFree MemberI avoid fair trade whenever possible because:
None of them are particularly valid reasons – just a bit selfish and me me me TBH. If your point was to demonstrate your chewcentric world, you’ve made it.
chewkwFree MemberTooTall – Member
None of them are particularly valid reasons – just a bit selfish and me me me TBH. If your point was to demonstrate your chewcentric world, you’ve made it.Yes, that’s me I am afraid so my reasons as I don’t buy a single bit of the propaganda.
If it’s fair then everyone should be treated the same and not just some.
TooTallFree MemberIf it’s fair then everyone should be treated the same and not just some.
So until everyone in the world has the same deal, you don’t support something that is at least heading in the right direction? What part of Fair Trade is propaganda BTW?
chewkwFree MemberTooTall – Member
So until everyone in the world has the same deal, you don’t support something that is at least heading in the right direction? What part of Fair Trade is propaganda BTW?
That’s positive discrimination and that too will have negative impact on others.
Propaganda – saying that they are fair but what they do not say is that they might be killing off some of middlemen/persons livelihood. They too are human that need to earn a living. What fair trade is doing is to cut out the middle men/persons and get a bigger slice of profit for themselves.
tacopowell – Member
And so the rich keep getting richer
How do you define rich?
A rich person in Papua New Guinea may not even earn as much as a London Tube driver a year.
tacopowellFree MemberCoffee farmers don’t need the middlemen to undervalue them, they need to value their coffee fairly between the farmers and consumers, simples, it’s these middlemen that are getting richer and richer at the expense of the farmers who are getting poorer and poorer, there’s no fairness in that!
As far as defining rich? I would consider the middlemen, exploiting more than what is rightfully theirs as been rich, of course I’m sure a coffee farmer would look at a tube drivers wages and regard him as been rich but this doesn’t change the middlemans injustice.
TooTallFree MemberWhat fair trade is doing is to cut out the middle men/persons and get a bigger slice of profit for themselves.
Wow. Just wow. If that is how you interpret what Fair Trade does, then you have a really unique understanding.
Munqe-chickFree Memberso why do all you boys buys diamonds then?? see the film Blood Diamond and read all about it?
De Beers “created” it to make money, spending 3 months salary is all drivel and myth too!chewkwFree MemberTooTall – Member
Wow. Just wow. If that is how you interpret what Fair Trade does, then you have a really unique understanding.
Yes, Fair Trade becomes the new middlemen but this time they are in the developed world and much more powerful.
Yes, unique and I am a unique person (positive or negative depending on your views and I accept that).
Okay, enough about me as I am getting slightly light headed from all the flattery.
tacopowellFree MemberNot seen Blood Diamonds, I assume there’s more to it than just diamonds?
Might watch it tonight.
tomhowardFull MemberI refuse to drink fairly traded, sustainable, ecologically sourced, local coffee bought direct from the farmer.
Because I don’t like the taste of coffee.
tacopowellFree MemberYes, Fair Trade becomes the new middlemen but this time they are in the developed world and much more powerful.
So who were the middlemen that have been replaced?
Traders in the country the coffee originates?
Or these guys?
tacopowellFree MemberI refuse to drink fairly traded, sustainable, ecologically sourced, local coffee bought direct from the farmer.
Because I don’t like the taste of coffee.Best answer yet!
buzz-lightyearFree MemberMaccy D’s coffee is well priced, tastes OK and they have wifi, clean toilets and ample parking
But they also have teenagers and who the hell wants to mix with them!?
ScottCheggFree Memberso why do all you boys buys diamonds then?
To loosen girls knickers of course. Don’t see the point otherwise.
djgloverFree MemberMcdonalds coffee over costa at the services every time + there is enough left for a Mcflurry!
thisisnotaspoonFree Member1. some taste shite. (think Green & Black chocolate is the only item I think taste good. Forget coffee beans … I am not buying that!)
Try Co-Op’s own brand coffee’s, we used to get through a couple of bags a week when we had a coffee machine on the spare desk and the co-op stuff was consistently better than a lot of the other ‘branded’ stuff.
tenacious_dougFree MemberI’m not that bothered about a fair trade sticker, as long as it tastes good and comes from a source that I trust. Mostly here
chewkwFree Memberthisisnotaspoon – Member
Try Co-Op’s own brand coffee’s, we used to get through a couple of bags a week when we had a coffee machine on the spare desk and the co-op stuff was consistently better than a lot of the other ‘branded’ stuff.
I will give them a try again to see how good they are as I finished my 3kg of Robusta coffee beans I bought from TK Maxx few months ago.
mattsccmFree MemberPutting the sentiment aside, fiarvtrade is such a twisted name its a sodding lie. How about lets ignore common sense and normal market forces or some such. Anything that trades on sentiment and artificially bends rules is wrong.Its like me and Cav in a sprint only I start 10 metres from the line and he starts 500m out.That aint fair.
not disagreeing with the sentiment, i just hate the idea of giving some people an advantage being called fairHermanShakeFree MemberObese-Boy points at the fairly traded coffee, admiring it’s upstanding sentiments.
crazy-legsFull MemberThere’s a nice independent coffee shop in Manchester which did a tasting evening one night and during that, the guy said that Fairtrade was basically price fixing.
Coffee is the second most traded commodity in the world (after oil) and the price can fluctuate quite widely. Fairtrade just guarantees that the farmer will always get [x] for it but at times [x] can be considerably lower than the actual market value. Equally, sometimes it can be higher than the market value but it’s hardly the solution to solving world poverty that some people seem to think.
TooTallFree Memberit’s hardly the solution to solving world poverty that some people seem to think
No, but a known price enables the farmer to plan ahead and many people are far happier with a known steady income over massive swings, especially if they have no cushion. Would you (and your family) give up your regular wage for the possibility of getting 30% more or 30% less depending upon factors that are outside your control?
Probably not.
molgripsFree MemberSimple really, Starbucks, Costa, Nero all taste terrible,
McDonald’s is fair trade coffee but its McDonald’s so it’s gonna taste like stale piss.McDonalds coffee is ok, as are all those others you mention.
i just hate the idea of giving some people an advantage being called fair
The point is that the rich Western corporations buying coffee already have a massive advantage. Fair Trade ideas are simply an attempt to redress the balance.
Any huge buyer can buy up everything a producer makes, so they depend on the buyer. Then the buyer has the producer by the balls and can lower its prices until the producer is on the poverty line. This is a very well known and widely used practice. It’s just not very nice to the producers.
Fair trade simply gives either a tiny bit of the profits of the rich buyer or a tiny bit of the disposable income of the rich end customers to the poverty stricken producers. Can’t see a problem with that principle tbh.
How about lets ignore common sense and normal market forces
What’s so great about market forces? They create winners and losers.
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