teh remaining two are neuropathic pain where I have said it is known it has an effect

Hang on a second. You said earlier that analgesic simply means pain relief. So how does having an effect on pain make it NOT an analgesic? I am confused.

self restraint used.. public forum and all that.

molgrips – Member

teh remaining two are neuropathic pain where I have said it is known it has an effect

Hang on a second. You said earlier that analgesic simply means pain relief. So how does having an effect on pain make it NOT an analgesic? I am confused.

An analgesic stops the body feeling pain. Some drugs have an effect on neuropathic pain which is an abnormal response in the nervous system by reducing this abnormal response. Cannabis appears to do this.

so if you have a broken bone a painkiller will reduce the pain but a drug such as cannabis will not. If you have neuropathic pain then cannabis may reduce it. Cannabis may also reduce pain from spasm and may potenitate some analgesics. Also a feeling of well being engendered by cannabis may make you care less about the pain.

Does that help?

analgesics act on all pain response – cannabis may act on some specific abnormal types of pain response

because it works for a specfifc kind of pain [neuropathic] rather than general pain
It is not a general pain killer though it may alieviate the symptoms of certain somatosensory system related pain

I am assuming /deducing here tbh
EDIT:his post beat me by 39 seconds

Look It may be good for certain things and it should be researched but to argue that someoen should be getting an ill relative stoned for pain relief is perhaps a bit far.
I may “medicate” someone I knew very well if they asked but I would not “prescribe” it to anyone tbh

If you have neuropathic pain then cannabis may reduce it

What type of pain does the OP’s mum have then?

In the first ever controlled trial of a CBM [cannabis based medicine] in RA [rheumatoid arthritis], a significant analgesic effect was observed and disease activity was significantly suppressed following Sativex treatment. Whilst the differences are small and variable across the population, they represent benefits of clinical relevance and show the need for more detailed investigation in this indication.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16282192

Small sample though.

What type of pain does the OP’s mum have then?

Neuropathic or myofacial, either way it will help.

It will also lift mood, help her sleep, reduce muscle spasms, and relax muscles, all very common issues in FM.

Like I said its helped me, getting a bit bored of saying it now.

Love this poem.
It’s very appropriate here.

NEVER ARGUE WITH A FOOL

It is best not to argue,
But if you do at all,
Never do so with a fool.
A fool can defeat all.

He does not care for the facts.
He does not know debate.
He’s a stranger to reason.
Logic he can negate.

In the end the fool will win,
His logic is so strong!
Decides what he does not like
And then it must be wrong!

It’s better to keep quiet
When challenged by a fool.
Else, to prove his own wisdom,
He will make you a tool.

It is hence my policy
To not respond to those
Who ask questions not to learn
But to be bellicose.

How about I make a suggestion? the substance doesn’t do any harm in small doses and is easy enough to come by, perhaps it would be best too simply try and see if it works 😉

Then the individual who might gain from it’s use can decide based on actual experience?

You mean like I did Kaesae, what a crazy idea! 😉

OP if it works, don’t expect anyone to believe you.

I have followed this thread as I am a smoker (now ocassional). I am mid 40’s, professional and have a normal family life despite smoking for many years (a lot when I was younger)
I think there has been some misunderstanding on this thread mainly down to the word “analgesic”

TJ probably summed it up best when he said “so if you have a broken bone a painkiller will reduce the pain but a drug such as cannabis will not. If you have neuropathic pain then cannabis may reduce it. Cannabis may also reduce pain from spasm and may potenitate some analgesics. Also a feeling of well being engendered by cannabis may make you care less about the pain”

I have no doubt cannabis can cause mental health issues with some people. I have friends who stopped as it made them paranoid. Stopping smoking helped them so it does affect SOME people negatively. A good friend is a mental health nurse and many “patients” have used cannabis with negative effects (also alcohol and various prescription drugs are common sources of abuse)
However back to the OP. I hasten to add I have no medical experience so would get further advice before committing to anything however if his mother is suffering it MAYBE worth letting her try a very small amount to see if it helps, ideally sourced from someone you know and trust and before doing so I would research more from people with both views and away from a cycling forum known for people with strong opinions. 🙂
When my father had a bad back I gave him sone and it helped him.
Same as many things in this owrld, OK for some, not others.

flow – Member

It will also lift mood,

It may not. My personal experience is that it can raise or lower mood. I think you’re probably guilty of assuming your own experience is universal tbh. People are complicated and react to changed states in complicated ways.

Whenever I have a fairly big crash I find a small amount helps me with the pain (although in fairness I’m not sure if it really does reduce pain, but I certainly care less about it, so the end result is the same) and it helps me get to sleep too.

I’ve tried various over the counter pills and nothing seems to hit the spot in quite the same way. I’ve not tried the stronger prescription pills as I see it as a waste of time / NHS resources – when I need it I need it (and its right here), I don’t want to be waiting around at the doctors.

I don’t use it during the day though – or indeed at all at any other time – so hobble around until the next evening or three until the pain goes away naturally.

Obviously it won’t work for everyone, but doing it now and again it works for me with no noticeable side-effects. I see no harm in it nor the need to justify it further.

NW – you and Nacho are right, it dos effect everyone differently, it certainly isn’t for everyone. Its worth a try though!

I love the ol’ ganj…

have nothing but contempt for modern so called medicine, that focuses so highly on treatment that involves the prescribing of drugs but not on the healing of body or mind.

As long as there are individuals who stand to make a fortune from the sale of such drugs and as long as the drugs are time and time again proven to be harmful when so called clinical studies have shown they are safe, that contempt will remain.

The issue and subject of this thread is the use of cannabis or grass etc as a usefull form of pain management, which it has been proven to be in the case of people suffering from pain.

If those suffering from pain are varifying that it is effective, perhaps that should carry more weight than a bunch of studies carried out by researchers.

No offence gentlemen but this blind adherence to facts and figures that are funded and produced using money that is contributed by third parties is questionable, just as the motives, procedures and findings are also questionable.

This thread has a topic that does not involve products manufactured by multi billion pounds global companies, is there any chance you can set aside your inflexible perspectives and simply stick to the topic
. A thread full of hippies and witch doctors. We have this thing in medical world called evidence based medicine. If a drug cures more people than it causes serious/fatal side effects in, we tend to use it. It’s pure statistics. If a “natural” drug proves it’s effective and safe in randomly controlled trials then it will be placed onto the market. There’s no conspiracy to keep “natural” medicines down. Many MANY drugs if you hadn’t noticed are derived from natural chemicals found in nature.

Generally doctors all over the world administer drugs from various manufacturers, funnily enough 99 percent of them have no connection to the manufacturers of the drugs they prescribe yet these doctors own studies tend to agree with the stated rates of a drugs side effects. You’d think if 100,000 of thousands of doctors were prescribing various drugs then some of them would eventually find a flaw in big bad pharma’s drug safety statement? Wouldn’t you. But noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…..hippies around the world continue to this day to ascribe to pre enlightenment thinking and subscribe themselves to idiocy such as homeopathy and chiropractors.

You are correct bwaarp, thats why they are licencing cannabinoids for medical use.

One word, Sativex. Look it up and educate yourself about the medical world a little more. There is a time delay between people realizing a drug is useful and it coming to market. About 10-15 years, you will see more cannabis based drugs coming onto the market soon.

I have already read about it in depth, I have mentioned/linked to it on this thread many times.

Then what’s your problem. If the drug is slowly being approved for various disorders and being legalized in a controlled fashion then I fail to see the **** point of this thread and the idiocy found within. It’s smoking the damn stuff which can vary in quality and dosage that I think some believe is the problem here.

Also +1 TJ on CFS.

A thread full of hippies and witch doctors.

I think you’ll that the term shaman is considered to be more acceptable these days.

Have I gotten myself banned again, is witch doctor racist or something? Anyway I’m probably being a bit harsh on hippies: I’ve met three doctors who though you had to black out to have epilepsy; I’ve met a neurologist who thought someone having a basilar migraine was having a panic attack; and another neurologist who rushed into a diagnosis of epilepsy in a friend who was blacking out daily who failed to notice as I had her heart was running at about 200 bpm whenever she blacked out.

Lot’s of morons in the world.

Then what’s your problem.

I’m not the one with a problem mate, if you read through the thread you will see I am giving advice based on personal experience and TJ is trying to tell me I am wrong in one way or another. I don’t think he even knows what he is arguing about.

Ernie your knowledge of PC terms is the envy of guardianistas everywhere

Advice based entirely on personal experience is bollocks. I have no idea whether cannabis in analgesic or just for neuropathic pain/adjunctive pain relief. It’s not really my area but it seems from the skimming of my journal database the juries still out so giving advice is a bad idea, especially if you aren’t a doctor. Are you qualified to give medical advice on psychoactive drugs? If I did when I’m registered as a Biomed, I’d be murdered.

Junkyard, Ernie should have a wonder over to ARRSE. He’d be horrified.

I hang around a lot in polite company JY, so I know stuff like that.

You should hang around with fun people. You know, Rob Warner types. That’d lighten you up a bit.

Advice based on personal experience is bollocks

That is whats wrong with modern medicine. The patients symptoms or personal experience mean nothing if tests and studies say otherwise.

Now that is bollocks.

Yeah homeopathy is amazing. Patients and homeopathists experience says it’s great, should we listen to them? Noooo

Actually modern medicine even up until recently (eg Physiotherapists) has had to be clawed away from “experience” like a demented cat stuck in a wall because doctors time and time again made major screw ups. Evidence based medicine when tempered with a doctors experience has shown vastly improved medical outcomes.

You should hang around with fun people.

Not the sort of people you knock around with mate, you’re well rude.

Example : “I fail to see the **** point of this thread and the idiocy found within”

😐

Doctors who go against the grain and think for themselves, who have helped hundreds of people when they where failed by the system get their right to practice taken away by the GMC. Now thats bollocks.

I like being direct.

*Dons troll hat* @ Flow: What like Dr Andrew Wakefield? 😀

No like Dr Myhill

yes subjective reports are the most powerful method of finding truth
know to man.
i dont know why we waste time with actual research and blind trials it snot lie the placebo effect is real or subjective reports are know to be unreliable. if somone says it helps then obviously it rally does help. we dont need to know if it really does help or not just whether they think it does.

FOllow the links I posted earlier re Cochrane collaboration and involving patients.
No one is sayin that patients views should be ignored but to claim that what they think is somehow true and fact is very inaccurate and wont really help us know anything [placebo effect and self reports being unreliable[

Homeopathy has many supporters who will tell you it works, as will faith healing and any other “quackery” you care to think of.

The patients symptoms or personal experience mean nothing if tests and studies say otherwise.

Now that is bollocksscience.
FTFY

Jeez, are Cheech and Chong still droning on about rubbish? Reminds me of the days I used to sit around getting ston… Oh.

Flow, shut up eh?

You might well have loads of experience getting wrecked, but you have no experience of dealing with people in pain, who need that pain to go away like right now, not when you’ve managed to find the skins.

No you shut up crikey 😆

Well, how much experience do you have of dealing with people in pain? That’s real pain, not ‘Oh maan, we’ve got no pizza left’ pain…

I’m loathe to descend to the level of insults, but you are a fool.

Actually Dr Myhill is/was full of shit. I spent a lot of time doing a large review paper a long time ago on birth defects in Iraq and the possible causes behind them. I ran into her stuff attempting to find a link between them and Gulf War syndrome. Her opinion of vaccinations was laughable.

Linky http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/doctors-and-vaccination/

That is whats wrong with modern medicine. The patients symptoms or personal experience mean nothing if tests and studies say otherwise.

Now that is bollocks.

NHS chronic pain services make extensive use of psychological therapies to help patients manage pain. This sort of work requires a deep understanding of a patients symptoms and experience, working closely with other medical disciplines. Modern medicine is constantly investigating new approaches to treatment and testing these objectively to discover which are most effective. Going back to the OP’s original question, it is worth investigating whether any of these non-drug based treatments are available for your mother. They may not be appropriate for her specific condition, but there’s no harm in asking.