Don’t you just love Microsoft Windows

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 66 total)
  • Don’t you just love Microsoft Windows
  • PJay
    Member

    I’m no expert, but I’ve been wrestling with Windows since 95 (with some experience of 3.1). Windows has always been able to choke and throw up useless error messages or crashes. I recently talked my parents into upgrading their ancient Windows XP machines to a nice new Windows 10 machine; whilst doing some work on it today Windows reminded me that despite all the intervening years and technological advances, it’s still able to generate those classic Windows facepalm moments.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I’ve supported it since 3.1 and I’ve just retired. I won’t miss it.

    Premier Icon orangespyderman
    Subscriber

    And yet it’s the only OS that supports, well, everything. Stuff you can buy at the newsagents, on alibaba, generic crap off eBay, hardware from PC specialists. It can make everything work. Nothing else can do that – restrict your hardware support and peripheral management becomes easier (but more expensive). That error message is from something that I’ll bet every other OS on this planet will struggle to support.

    wordnumb
    Member

    Will there be an error viewing the error details?

    spekkie
    Member

    Started with Windows 3.11, Windows for Workgroups (at work) and ’95 at home. Now on Windows 7 at home and happy never to move forward from here. It does all I need.

    Not interested in all the process consuming and second guessing the latest versions seem intent on providing.

    Most crashes I ever had was at work on Windows NT. Nightmare.

    I’d agree that over all we’ve had it pretty easy over the years though. No need for a degree in computing to do some pretty amazing stuff that we take for granted.

    TheBrick
    Member

    Windows is annoying but overall it does a good job, windows 7 and 10 are both good.

    And yet it’s the only OS that supports, well, everything

    It’s more that everyone supports windows and writes drivers for windows.

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Subscriber

    I’ve had the ‘joys’ of using Windows desktop OS since v1 (essentially a graphical shell over DOS), it’s certainly improved in that time. I do think a lot of people forget just how broad an ecosystem it supports, from a vast range of hardware to a vast range of software. MacOS may be simpler and stuff generally just works but it’s a far more closed ecosystem, great for some use cases but not for others (or your wallet). Linux, it’s getting there but is still a long way off being a proper alternative for a home user that doesn’t want to begin to understand what an OS does and just wants to use an app or browse the web without any issues.

    As for security vulnerabilities, Windows stacks up well with alternatives and is more a victim of it’s own success as vastly more effort is dedicated towards finding security holes in it than other OSes and it’s basically impossible to make an OS that is open enough for lots of things to run on via APIs yet secure enough to prevent ways of exploiting it that hadn’t even been thought of during development. Sure there’s some “wtf?” moments when you wonder why such a method of attack was ever a possibility when some patches are released but there’s other times when you realise just patching asap when something is exposed is the best you could hope for without a crystal ball.

    Linux, it’s getting there

    People have been saying this for 20 years. It was touted as a windows killer back then but If its not there after 20 years of development it never will be.

    Windows has been very very good since XP, and is rightfully the dominant OS in the marketplace. It has more hardware, software and user freindliness than any other os.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    everyone supports windows and writes drivers for windows

    and when the drivers fail Microsoft gets the blame…

    footflaps
    Member

    Windows has been very very good since XP, and is rightfully the dominant OS in the marketplace.

    Yep, I really liked XP and think it’s been a bit downhill since. Currently on 7 Professional and hoping never to have to upgrade to 10 as the Tile UI looks terrible and seems to be designed for 3 year olds who can only cope with clicking on pictures.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    I too come from a 3.1 era.

    Damn, it’s been a staple of every segment I’ve encountered over the years. I remember the lofty days of XP releases 🥳

    Its all a bit samy now, where ever you go it’s there with its pretty landscapes..

    Last but one employer tried going all Apple, we all got excited and felt trendy for about 3mths. The trial didn’t last long and subsequently reverted back to Windows.

    I prefer IOS (OS) myself but that’s just home, I did try to bring it into work with me (there are quite a few users here) but the hassle it caused my organisation was too much for them for someone who mainly uses Excel/PPT/Visio/MSP and outlook..

    hols2
    Member

    Currently on 7 Professional and hoping never to have to upgrade to 10 as the Tile UI looks terrible

    I think you’re confusing it with Win8.

    AdamW
    Member

    For the breadth of hardware support I generally use Linux or even MacOS as it tends to keep support for older hardware. I’ve had hardware that was suddenly no longer supported by the next iteration of Windows, e.g. one of the first USB scanners from Epson would no longer work with XP after W98 so I switched to Linux and used SANE for it and continued to use it until recently. I am hoping that Windows 10 puts paid to that, depending on the stability of the kernel APIs for device drivers. I’d imagine Microsoft would keep in touch with hardware vendors, else we’ll have instances of “This hardware is supported in Windows 10 from release XXXX or until release YYYY.” Which will be a nightmare.

    hols2
    Member

    For the breadth of hardware support I generally use Linux or even MacOS as it tends to keep support for older hardware.

    LMAO. Win10 has amazing backwards compatibility with hardware. I have a friend who’s an Apple fanboi and was really pissed because he bought a brand new Epson printer at Christmas only to find that there are no Mac OS drivers.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    TBH I get along fine with Windows for work as I have done for years, but I have a crappy little notebook at home running Linux, I doubled the memory and shoved a small SSD in it, while it might just about support Win 7, it flies with a lightweight Linux install and provides all the functionality needed (Web browsing and open office)…

    My Missus has an old HP laptop (possibly knocking on for a decade old now) with Vista installed that she want’s to start using (barely been used since she got it).
    I’m planning to install more memory and win 7, possibly an SSD. But I’m wondering if, given the age of the thing, I might just be chucking money away on something that will never quite run smoothly and it would probably work better with another Linux install.
    Unfortunatly I don’t know if she’s be ‘Linux compatible’…

    whitestone
    Member

    Linux has been “ready” for years, it’s users who haven’t been. Sit someone down in front of a Linux machine with a Ubuntu/Kubuntu/KDE/Gnome desktop and once you get them past “I’ve got have MS Word to write a letter” they’ll be fine.

    TBF, Windows has been pretty solid for a decade or more but the last version I used to any great degree was Windows XP, even then the BSOD was pretty rare.

    Linux, OSX and Windows are all pretty decent and for most users much of a muchness. Ideas pop up in one that the others “borrow”. If I started an office job tomorrow and they said “Here’s a ….. computer. Get to work” it would just be a case of learning the few differences from what I currently use. As above it’s when you need specific hardware support that you get tied to a particular platform/OS – at my last job we had video playout cards that would only work under Windows for example.

    hols2
    Member

    I’m planning to install more memory and win 7, possibly an SSD.

    If it’ll run Vista, it should be fine with Win10. Win7 is no longer supported, but if you have a valid license key, you can use that to install Win10. Obvious thing to do is to download the Win10 installation files from MS and see what the compatibility wizard says. If the video and sound cards etc. are supported, then 4 GB RAM and an SSD and it should run Win10 ok.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Currently on 7 Professional and hoping never to have to upgrade

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-IN/windowsforbusiness/end-of-windows-7-support

    All good things must come to an end, even Windows 7. After January 14, 2020, Microsoft will no longer provide security updates or support for PCs running Windows 7. But you can keep the good times rolling by moving to Windows 10

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    The first MS OS I used was DOS 3.3. I used to run it under emulation (PC-Ditto) on an Atari ST, it was… not good.

    Now on Windows 7 at home and happy never to move forward from here. It does all I need

    Until January next year wen it falls out of support and you’ll not see any more security updates for it, ever. Windows 7 was great, but it’s a ten year old OS for crying out loud.

    Most crashes I ever had was at work on Windows NT. Nightmare.

    Yup. There’s a very good reason for that, I’ll go into a bit more detail if anyone cares sufficiently.

    It’s more that everyone supports windows and writes drivers for windows.

    True, but the majority of drivers on a given system will come from Microsoft. I rebuilt a W7 laptop with W10 at the weekend, all bar two drivers (SD card reader and fingerprint reader) came directly from the OS / Windows Update.

    As for security vulnerabilities, Windows stacks up well with alternatives and is more a victim of it’s own success

    There’s a truth in this. Windows has been prone to malware since time immemorial simply because it’s the largest installation base out there. You write a virus to harvest passwords or some such, you’re going to want to target the biggest footprint.

    Back in the pre-Vista days it’s fair to say that Windows had more than its fair share of security issues (yes I’m looking at you, XP). For all that it was much maligned, Vista did a lot of things right and if you go back a few years the biggest vulnerability threat came from third-party software (though of course, MS still got the blame for it). In particular, out-of-date installations of Java and Flash Player were the biggest threat by a country mile for quite a long time.

    Many high profile threats could have been completely mitigated if people patched their machines more regularly. MS have taken this decision out of users’ hands to an extent with W10 and for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth this caused it is a Good Thing. The vulnerability exploited by the WannaCry outbreak a couple of years back which took out, amongst many other organisations, fully a third of the NHS had been patched by MS a month previously. See also: Sasser, Conficker, Code Red and many, many more.

    Today though is where it gets interesting. Vendors have largely got their houses in order, helped in no small way by Windows 10 enforcing good coding practices more aggressively than previous incarnations. In 2018 the primary mode of infection – I forget the exact figure but it’s something like 90-95% – for all initial malware infections is email. That is, either mails which convince people to run malware-infected attachments, or phishing emails which direct them to hostile web pages. For all of Microsoft’s successes and failings, I expect it’ll be quite challenging for them to issue a patch to satiate index fingers.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    one of the first USB scanners from Epson would no longer work with XP after W98

    To be fair, W98 and XP are wholly different operating systems. XP was built on Windows NT, Windows 98 was (at the risk of a gross oversimplification here) built on DOS. The Windows 9X family died (spectacularly and not before time) after Windows ME.

    In the Windows 98 world there were two driver models, the then new and shiny WDM and the legacy VxD which actually predates Windows 3.1! For most practical purposes, USB was only supported properly for the first time under Windows 98* so the technology was in its infancy. WDM continued into Windows XP so a piece of hardware using WDM should have continued to work, whereas VxD drivers don’t work on an NT-derived system. I’d guess then that your scanner driver was using a VxD driver, which was by then ten year old technology in Windows 98. I’d put the blame for your issue squarely with Epson rather than MS in this instance.

    Plus, y’know, all this was 20 years ago. It seems somewhat unfair to be judging Windows 10 based on Windows 98, it’s like saying you’d never drive a new Ford Mondeo because you once had a MkIII Escort that was a bit shit.

    (* – this isn’t technically true, there was limited support in later OEM versions of W95 but it was pretty shocking.)

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    It Creaks with Vista, I’ll boot it up tonight and see what it’s got, I vaguely remember sticking extra memory in it a couple of years ago but I can’t remember how much…

    If it’ll run Vista, it should be fine with Win10. Win7 is no longer supported, but if you have a valid license key, you can use that to install Win10

    As in use the old vista product key for an update?
    I think there’s one of the old Windows stickers on the bottom, would that have a key valid for Win 10 update? I thought they’d stopped offering that…

    hols2
    Member

    As in use the old vista product key for an update?

    No, I don’t think it will work with a Vista key, only Win7 or Win8. Officially, the offer has ended. In reality, it still works fine according to multiple reliable sources.

    poly
    Member

    And yet it’s the only OS that supports, well, everything. Stuff you can buy at the newsagents, on alibaba, generic crap off eBay, hardware from PC specialists.

    I think your logic is back to front. Its not that the OS supports everything its that everything supports the OS. That said I can’t recall the last time I had an issue connecting anything to a Mac, and it just working.

    I just hate The way it needs constant attention. Computers should be like white goods or cars. We’d never tolerate the faff with our washing machines or cars that we do with Windows. Mac OS isn’t perfect but in my experience for what I use it for it’s a case of zero maintenance with Mac so that gets my vote. But win 10 on my work laptop is a retrograde step compared with 7. Just awful.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    I don’t understand why you think 10 is awful. I’ve run multiple installs of 7 and 10 and found both, in various configurations to be just fine. I avoided both vista and 8, as colleague’s experience was less than wonderful.
    If you want to be frustrated and compare something to white goods try my Tom Tom. It’s 3 or 4 years old, I’ve used it maybe 10 times, something has changed with GPS satellites ( or something ), and the damn thing is effectively useless until you can do an update on it. As I found out in Germany last week. And the forum is full of ‘run program as administrator’, ‘delete this cache’, and all manner of other bullshine. It literally has one job to do…

    Milkie
    Member

    I remember finding doshell.exe and thinking it was awesome.. Then someone showed me Norton Commander and I was blown away. I lost my mind when I was shown Windows 2, 3 and then 3.11 for workgroups! wow!

    Windows 95 was pretty awesome for the first month, then you realised that plug and play was actually plug and pray, then go and change the I/O settings to get drivers to work, or make up your own driver consisting of old drivers and your own scripts. Concept was good, execution wasn’t that great. < I think that pretty much sums up all Microsoft OS’s!

    Honestly, it has got better over the years!! 😉

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    No, I don’t think it will work with a Vista key, only Win7 or Win8. Officially, the offer has ended. In reality, it still works fine according to multiple reliable sources.

    Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Vista was never eligible for the upgrade, either logically or physically (ie you cannot upgrade an existing Vista install directly to W10, you’d have to either install an intermediate OS or wipe it and start again (which is a wholly sensible thing to do anyway)).

    I just hate The way it needs constant attention.

    What constant attention? It needs a reboot once a month.

    You cannot expect a computer to behave like white goods, if only because your average washing machine isn’t connected to the Internet or susceptible to users receiving free samples of Russian anthrax washing powder through the post unsolicited. And if it were then you could expect to have to do regular updates just like a PC, I had to do a firmware upgrade on my lightbulbs a couple of months back.

    ajaj
    Member

    “I don’t understand why you think 10 is awful”

    It will install itself on a Win7 machine without asking for permission.

    It will install an update, and then delete software you had bought and paid for that it doesn’t like because that software is incompatible with the update.

    It will decide to reboot when it wants to, if you were working on anything important tough luck.

    It will run Windows Compatibility Telemetry in the background, causing everything to grind to a halt. Even if telemetry is supposedly disabled.

    Updates will default to sending personal data to Microsoft.

    It plays adverts in the Start menu.

    timba
    Member

    Best phone OS IMHO where Windows 8/8.1 made absolute sense. Unfortunately 8/8.1 didn’t translate to PC as well and people didn’t move to the phone OS

    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    Maybe people moaning about Windows should give Linux From Scratch a go, then they’d see 😉

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I had a work laptop that had regular BSOD with Windows. So I installed Linux, and it also had regular crashes. Turned out it was a bad RAM slot. But I bet you lot would have been cursing at Microsoft all the same.

    I’ve been using MacOS for a couple of years, it seems very crude to me. I like that it’s Unix based but the UI is bobbins. MS have put far more thought into desktop usability than Apple have, which is surprising since iOS is good.

    One example. If you want to search for a document, you press cmd + space and type in a keyword, it finds a list – great. But if you want to do something with one of the files, then you can’t. You can only open it with the default app. On Windows you can right click on the found file and copy it, delete it, open it with a different app, whatever. On MacOS you have to scroll right down to the bottom of a list of random vaguely related crap before you find the ‘show in finder’ link. This doesn’t open the finder, it shows a big button that you then have to click to open the finder, and you then can right click on the search results. Which (as I’ve just tried it) appear to be different to the ones you originally got.

    And the navigation around files in the file open dialog is flippin rubbish. And where’s the hibernate option? And the way it puts every menu bar at the top of the screen is ridiculous. You can open an app and the only evidence that anything has happened is if the menu bar has changed slightly. An app can be open with no windows open and all it does is change the menu bar. And the fact there are different hotkeys for flipping between windows of the same app and windows in different app is annoying as hell. If you are working on windows of the same app and a different app it’s a right faff. Whilst we’re on the subject of hotkeys, I get that they are using cmd instead of ctrl for copy, paste etc just to be different, whatever, but cmd is too close to the X, C and V keys so you have to do this awkward thing with your thumb instead of using your little finger which sits directly over ctrl.

    It’s clear MS (at long last) have properly thought through user workflow – e.g. the ribbon in the explorer – whereas Apple don’t seem to have bothered.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    It will decide to reboot when it wants to, if you were working on anything important tough luck.

    Don’t think it does this anymore?

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    It would be nice if they did a streamlined version without the double entry ways of changing things.

    You get the control panel etc but you also get the hand holding menus more designed for tablets. Different styles going off too.

    Too cluttered for me, but it is okay.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    It will install itself on a Win7 machine without asking for permission.

    No it won’t.

    It will install an update, and then delete software you had bought and paid for that it doesn’t like because that software is incompatible with the update.

    I’ve never heard of any version of Windows spontaneously deleting third-party software ever, and I’ve been working with PCs in a professional capacity for ~30 years now.

    [EDIT: I’ve half a memory that the process of upgrading from W7/W8.1 to W10 back when it was first released uninstalled some third party anti-virus software because it interfered with the installation process. Nothing to stop you reinstalling it afterwards, though.]

    It will decide to reboot when it wants to, if you were working on anything important tough luck.

    You can configure ‘working hours’ and in any case this only happens if you’ve been perpetually saying “no” to updates and other prompts.

    This behaviour is set to change with the next W10 build, which in my personal opinion is a step backwards but MS have bowed to user pressure here.

    It will run Windows Compatibility Telemetry in the background, causing everything to grind to a halt. Even if telemetry is supposedly disabled.

    Far as I’m aware this was a rare issue in a preview build a couple of years ago.

    Updates will default to sending personal data to Microsoft.

    You’re going to have to elaborate on what you mean here?

    It plays adverts in the Start menu.

    No it doesn’t.

    ajaj
    Member

    Not really sure why I’m bothering arguing this since all these issues are well documented, but top links out of Google for them…

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/windows-10-stealth-install/1fc664d7-1faa-4c07-8a8a-32121cfd6976

    https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-may-delete-your-programs-without-asking/

    The Windows telemetry issue has pages and pages of documentation on Google, but try this one as an example. https://thewindowscentral.com/microsoft-compatibility-telemetry/

    Updates sending data to Microsoft, again pages and pages on Google, but https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-sends-data-to-microsoft-despite-privacy-settings/

    Adverts in the Start menu – https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-disable-windows-10-start-menu-ads/

    Premier Icon sirromj
    Subscriber

    While I get where you’re coming from, those sources aren’t exactly…. what’s the word?

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    I’ve pretty much never had a problem with any os for years. I think some of you could be doing with improving your computer skills.

    windows 10 is excellent, as is os x (well 10.13, can’t upgrade to 14 but sure it’s great.)

    mattyfez
    Member

    Windows 10 is fine, but if I was a general pc user, and not a gamer, I’d be on mint or Ubuntu.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/windows-10-stealth-install/1fc664d7-1faa-4c07-8a8a-32121cfd6976

    Three years ago.

    https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-may-delete-your-programs-without-asking/

    The upgrade process uninstalls incompatible programs which may interfere with the upgrade – wholly sensible, no, otherwise we’d all be citing articles claiming that the upgrade broke things – and you can reinstall them afterwards in any case, as I said.

    Please correct me if I’ve misunderstood but this is a far cry from “deleting software you had bought” as you asserted.

    Also, three years ago.

    The Windows telemetry issue has pages and pages of documentation on Google, but try this one as an example. https://thewindowscentral.com/microsoft-compatibility-telemetry/

    Four years ago.

    Updates sending data to Microsoft, again pages and pages on Google, but https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-sends-data-to-microsoft-despite-privacy-settings/

    Four years ago.

    Adverts in the Start menu – https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-disable-windows-10-start-menu-ads/

    Four years ago.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    While I get where you’re coming from, those sources aren’t exactly…. what’s the word?

    Current?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 66 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.