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  • Donald! Trump!
  • vlad_the_invader
    Full Member

    Hallelujah!

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Donald, you’ve been a very naughty boy.
    The focus has been on the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels with, apparently, no interest in the other bit of buying silence; playboy model claimed an affair with trump; sold her story to the ‘national enquirer’ whose chief exec, david pecker – such an apt surname in this story – then killed the story by not publishing it.
    US media have been reporting that pecker has been seen entering and leaving the NY court house where the grand jury for this case sit.
    Wait, I hear you say – is there more than one grand jury?
    Why, yes siree! How many fingers do you have to count them?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    When you add in potential indictments in the ‘classified docs’ case and for election-tampering in Georgia, it’s a veritable smorgasbord of courtroom action.

    Oh, and Jean E.Carroll’s civil case…

    PJM1974
    Free Member

    We all knew that Trump has always been a wrong ‘un, when he was elected he was still a wrong ‘un and wherever he ends up, he’ll always be a wrong ‘un.

    I’d feel much greater satisfaction if Trump’s campaign donors and media apologists were indicted too.

    convert
    Full Member

    Call me naive, but I don’t quite get it…..

    You have an affair with a playboy model – she says she’s taking the story to the press – you get an aid to pay her some money to stop her to make it more lucrative to take your offer than take the media’s money.

    Why is this illegal? In fact why is it not being blackmailed?

    Don’t get me wrong – the orange one being brought to book for pretty much anything is a great day; I’m just not quite sure why this is actually so very naughty. I’d far rather see him brought down for what happened on Jan 6th where people died and democracy was properly threatened. That’s what should be sending him to prison.

    hightensionline
    Full Member

    Because the payments made involved campaign money from the 2016 election, so it became fraud. Trump’s argument is that he was going to pay it anyway – and did, personally in the end – but it’s the use of funds to cover something up that politicised it, and possibly aided his victory.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Why is this illegal?

    Campaign fund violations, I believe. It’s a bit like getting Al Capone on tax charges.

    I’d far rather see him brought down for what happened on Jan 6th where people died and democracy was properly threatened. That’s what should be sending him to prison.

    That’s being investigated separately. He’s facing multiple possible charges in different jurisdictions by different investigators. One effect of this will be to distract him badly. It will make campaigning for president difficult, and also tie his lawyers up with fighting a bunch of separate cases.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    scuttler
    Full Member

    Here’s hoping this pile upon on pile of extra stress takes its toll on the 76 year old cheezburger muncher. But not before his arse is handed to him by the courts.

    Rotten bastard.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I’m just not quite sure why this is actually so very naughty. I’d far rather see him brought down for what happened on Jan 6th where people died and democracy was properly threatened. That’s what should be sending him to prison.

    I agree. The Stormy Daniels stuff really doesn’t, so far at least, sound that damning.

    Apparently his former lawyer paid off Stormy Daniels and when later Trump reimbursed the lawyer by double the amount he put it down as “legal services” which it is claimed was false.

    And because he allegedly benefited politically from the hush money they are trying to link it with campaign fraud.

    The problem with going after Trump on pretty minor stuff like that, years after it happened, and as the result of intense investigations by the District Attorney, it does appear to look a bit like a political witch-hunt.

    Which of course Trump is milking for all it’s worth. If people start believing that Trump is the victim of am establishment witch-hunt it is likely imo to garner him sympathy which he isn’t entitled to.

    And will possibly make it more difficult to convince people that he is guilty of the much more serious stuff.

    Trump’s attempt to lead an insurrection to overturn a presidential election is far more difficult to dismiss as of little importance. Even some of his own supporters ended up disgusted with him.

    However despite that as many as 40% of Americans believe that the last presidential election was rigged. IMO the issue should not be put to rest and instead vigorously pursued.

    Trump is a criminal and should face the consequences. The Stormy Daniels sounds like a distraction to me.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-19/donald-trump-s-doj-referral-spotlights-insurrection-ban-on-officeholders

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Stormy Daniels a distraction?
    It would take more than two mounds of silicone to distract me.
    The issue, ernie, as has been pointed out many times is violation of regulations regarding use of campaign funds.
    The sort of transgression that would offend your political sensibilities if it occurred in camden or croydon or some other inner city borough.
    I don’t care what it takes to sink trump; my interest is in seeing him sink.
    As has been pointed out to you before, Alphonse Capone was a criminal non-pareil but was convicted on tax charges.
    Get trump in court, charge him, convict him, sentence him.
    Who gives a flying one what the charge is?
    You might but the vast majority don’t.

    inkster
    Free Member

    Trump is going to hand himself in apparently…

    I’m a bit disappointed, I was hoping for an O.J. Simpson style get away in a golf buggy.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    convert
    Full Member

    Why is this illegal? In fact why is it not being blackmailed?

    It’s not being blackmailed because she didn’t say “give me X dollars or I’ll go to the press”, he said “please don’t go to the press, I’ll give you X dollars”

    And it’s not illegal to pay people off- you’re going to hear a lot of that coming up. What mattered was that he used campaign funds- other people’s money- to do it, and that’s fraud. Now a lot of people will say “so what”. But Trump’s entire career in politics and out has been about throwing around other people’s money, so it’s more relevant than it looks. It’s not a one-off or a slip, it’s his entire MO

    It’s like, if Boris Johnson gets done for misleading parliament, it’s not just relevant for that one time, it’s relevant because he’s a compulsive liar and it’s not one incident.

    thols2
    Full Member

    But Trump’s entire career in politics and out has been about throwing around other people’s money, so it’s more relevant than it looks. It’s not a one-off or a slip, it’s his entire MO

    Exactly. He’s made a career of just flouting financial regulations, knowing that investigating and prosecuting a rich guy is too much trouble for most regulators. When he does get caught, he hires lawyers to negotiate it down to a minor fine or something, then he just goes on doing it anyway. Yes, he should be prosecuted for the big crimes, but I think he should also be prosecuted for every single minor crime too, just like regular people would be.

    oldnpastit
    Full Member

    Michael Cohen has already been sent to jail for this even though it was Trump who jumped into bed with Ms Daniels.

    So it’s hard to argue it’s not a crime.

    nickc
    Full Member

    I watched a bit of this on Fox, as I thought it would be interesting to see if they’re doing anything different while they get stuffed to the tune of $1.6 Billion for talking shite about Dominion.

    Nope, not a bit of it, I swear they’d rather there be a full on Civil War than loose any viewers. The coverage of this is wall to wall, and it’s just a long list of folks coming on to say it’s the Dems out to get Trump or weaponizing the law, or any variation of the above.

    I get why the NY cops want everyone on duty!

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I’m a bit disappointed, I was hoping for an O.J. Simpson style get away in a golf buggy.

    Please let it be so….

    Even better, when he does get taken in to court, please can Melania wear this again.

    hightensionline
    Full Member

    The problem with going after Trump on pretty minor stuff like that

    Minor stuff is what campaigns are built and won on. If repeated claims about sordid relationships and his attempts to hush them had been proven before the election, then his voters might not have been impressed.
    Imagine a campaign without the relatively minor issue of Hillary Clinton’s emails, for example. She’d probably win the election if the FBI hadn’t announced an investigation weeks before the vote. Small things matter, as Trump found out. Literally small, according to Stormy Daniels.

    pictonroad
    Full Member

    Bit gutted about this tbh. He’ll do far more damage to the republican cause if he runs. If the case prevents him from running they get a chance to ‘wipe the slate clean’ and win back some of the middle ground. Given that Biden will be visibly and publicly, very elderly, against a younger vibrant rep candidate, it could play into rep hands.

    convert
    Full Member

    So whilst its legally (if not morally) fine to pay her hush money, its wrong because a rich man (who could afford $130K without noticing) put his hand in the wrong pocket to do the paying. Yes, I can see it’s illegal but I’m still not convinced its the right first play.

    Yes, he should be prosecuted for the big crimes, but I think he should also be prosecuted for every single minor crime too, just like regular people would be.

    While I sort of agree, this is also politics. The republicans can set the narrative ball rolling in the court of public opinion (actually not public opinion – the bit of the public that either do vote GOP or could possibly vote it in the future) that this is persecution not prosecution- which will be a hell of a lot easier with this than the storming of the Capitol and people dying. By the time they get to the good stuff the public will either be bored or enraged and the Dems (who are not doing the prosecuting, but sort of are because of the daft US system) will start looking like the bad people. Stupid I know, but people are stupid.

    oldnpastit
    Full Member

    Statue of limitations means they have to charge the Stormy Daniels campaign finance violation before May IIRC.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    He’ll do far more damage to the republican cause if he runs.

    He’s still the front-runner by some distance. TBH his best strategy at this point is to continue his run, and try to delay the case by the usual means until deep into 2024, in the hope that prosecutors will have to back off rather than prosecute an actual presidential candidate during a campaign.

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Hopefully it’ll be just the first in a wave of ‘minor’ charges, showing no-one is above the law.

    Maybe the same message will come over here – PPE, anyone?

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Yes, I can see it’s illegal but I’m still not convinced its the right first play.

    I am expecting a second, third, maybe fourth and more play next.
    As above, I thought they were up against time on some of these.
    I also was just listening to R4 and someone was suggesting we don’t know the full sheet of accusations – and that there is probability of more than just paying off Stormy the wrong way.

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    Muller, set out the case for 11 indictments, 7 of which were strong, it’s a mystery to me why none of these have seen the light of day (well Bill Bar of course). Was Stormy Daniels one of them, I can’t remember?

    thols2
    Full Member

    He’ll do far more damage to the republican cause if he runs.

    I’m not convinced of that. First, if he runs, there is a very real chance that he will be elected. He was an absolutely disastrous president, not just for America, but for worldwide democracy itself. Other Republicans like Desantis, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, etc. are unprincipled opportunists and I doubt that they would be very good presidents, but they are a class above Trump, they would just make lousy presidents, not extremely dangerous presidents. This is because they are all graduates of elite law schools and they do understand how the constitution and courts work, they have just realized that Trump controls the MAGA base and they need to parrot what the MAGA base wants to hear. I think they will be even less electable than Trump because they are such transparent opportunists, but even if they did win, they would be much, much less bad presidents than Trump.

    fasthaggis
    Full Member

    He should get in touch with Paltrow’s lawyers, they may offer him some scented candles.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Was Stormy Daniels one of them, I can’t remember?

    I doubt it. I think this is a local case, not a federal one, but I’m not sure. He’s facing some state level investigations (Georgia, for example), plus some federal ones (I assume the Traitorous Insurrection will be federal level). It’s really hard to keep track of all the investigations and who exactly is doing the investigating and prosecuting.

    FB-ATB
    Full Member

    going after Trump on pretty minor stuff like that, years after it happened, …. look a bit like a political witch-hunt

    Even if he was charged with masterminding the Jan 6th riot, the MAGA lot will claim it’s a witch hunt.

    I’m looking forward to a police mugshot of him without the comb-over, similar to the one of Phil Spector with his straggly hair & bald bonce!

    The-Beard
    Full Member

    Unfortunately the MAGA lot are slightly unhinged and have access to military grade firearms.  I could see this getting very ugly indeed.  Fox ‘News’ have been whipping them up already.  It all feels quite dangerous.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    I also was just listening to R4 and someone was suggesting we don’t know the full sheet of accusations – and that there is probability of more than just paying off Stormy the wrong way.

    We wont know until Tuesday when they are unsealed. However its being reported by US outlets there are about 30 separate charges and references to “business fraud”.
    Which suggests something more than just paying her off.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    It’s really hard to keep track of all the investigations and who exactly is doing the investigating and prosecuting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lawsuits_involving_Donald_Trump

    and

    Litigation Tracker: Pending Criminal and Civil Cases Against Donald Trump

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    I could see this getting very ugly indeed.

    Agreed.

    fasthaggis
    Full Member

    I hope you are right Matt,and that this is a crack in his bullshit armour, just before the other cases flood into play 🤞

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Even if he was charged with masterminding the Jan 6th riot, the MAGA lot will claim it’s a witch hunt.

    Yes the ‘MAGA lot’ would, obviously there is little hope of changing their minds. But they aren’t the issue.

    The people whose opinions matter are those those who voted Trump in 2016, but didn’t vote for him in 2020, and might vote for him, or a Trump backed candidate, in 2024.

    Part of Trump’s strong appeal is that he is perceived as being anti-establishment. The establishment, in this case the District Attorney, going through all his affairs with a fine tooth comb looking for what at least appears to be quite minor rule breaches which occurred years ago simply strengthens that claim.

    It will be seen as a political witch-hunt by many undecided voters, especially when compared to the case of Bill Clinton who was charged with perjury and obstruction of justice and yet got away with it.

    Organising a failed insurrection is an extraordinarily serious crime for a former president to be guilty of, even non-partisan voters would agree.

    It is hard to believe that the US judicial system is so fecked up that it has to rely on fairly minor false accountancy claims to go after those guilty of sedition, despite overwhelming evidence of the latter.

    Someone earlier made the comparison with the imprisonment of Al Capone on a tax evasion conviction which is fair imo, however surely the evidence of Trump’s involvement in the events of 6th of January is indisputable? Al Capone was a bit smarter than Donald Trump in covering his tracks.

    thols2
    Full Member

    the MAGA lot are slightly unhinged

    Slightly?

    inkster
    Free Member

    “Unfortunately the MAGA lot are slightly unhinged and have access to military grade firearms. I could see this getting very ugly indeed. Fox ‘News’ have been whipping them up already. It all feels quite dangerous”

    I wouldn’t disagree. Though one has to ask the Republicans: “When you reversed the assault weapons ban in the mid 2000’s, what did you expect / want to happen?.”

    I would suggest that if half the nation hadn’t been armed to the teeth with military grade weaponry over the preceding decade then we wouldn’t have seen the Jan 6th raid on the Capitol building.

    As it stands, American democracy is being held to ransom by morons with machine guns. Something will have to give, there’s currently more than one gun per person in the US, in a couple of years it’ll be 2 guns per person, then 3, then….

    It’s got to end somewhere and the sooner the better. Let Fox News and their minions have their day, come out all guns blazing then get their arses handed too them like a bunch of Wagner ****. Let those 2nd amendment tossers who arm themselves against government tyranny put their theories to the test.

    The government can then wrench those AR15’s from their ‘cold, dead hands…’

    The only way the US will ever see any meaningful gun legislation is if their is an escalation of political violence.

    MSP
    Full Member

    johndoh
    Free Member

    It’s all just a Stormy in a D-Cup

    (Unashamedly stolen from Twitter).

    thols2
    Full Member

    This is the other thing to keep in mind – we don’t know exactly what crimes he’s been charged with yet.

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