Ah, political infighting; trump thinks he owns the GOP but ‘traditional republicans’ don’t want him.
Freedom Caucus and election deniers want something different but haven’t articulated what it is.
McCarthy, if he remains GOP leader in the House, will have problems controlling his party regardless of whether or not they win the House.
trump will continue agitating, stirring, criticising, insulting because that’s all he knows – apart from stiffing small businesses, committing fraud and other financial lawbreaking. Anything to keep his name in the media – until he gets sent down.
I don’t see a way forward for the GOP.

Trump’s issue now is Desantis. He did very well with Florida and a little judicious gerrymandering and has a lot of Trumpian policies without the constant need for attention and the ill thought out tweets. He’s young, successful, and happy to upset people so long as it’s the right people. If Desantis announces for a presidential run its going to really put Trump’s nose out of joint. It could really make a mess of the republicans. Trump has no loyalty to the party, it was only ever a vehicle for him. I wouldn’t put it past him to run as an independent and the threat of that was useful last time for him. This time I think the party might tell him to do one. Fun times.

I think they’re really talking about de-MAGAfying the GOP.

Anyone who thinks this will happen doesn’t understand what has happened over the last 15 years. Trump just served as a megaphone for the pre-existing grievances of the GOP base. He utterly destroyed the establishment Republicans – Jeb Bush, for example. They had the option of leave the GOP or submit to Trump – which guys like Ted Cruz have done. The MAGA crown is the GOP now, they own it, they aren’t going to renounce the grievances that they’ve been nurturing for decades.

Yeah, the next step isn’t going to be demagafying, it’s going to be adapting better players so that they can use the magas while also being more effective. I mean, if Trump had been like 10% more capable of listening to others, he’d have been far worse- just think of the damage they were able to do with Reagan as frontman.

Destantis might or might not be that person and if he is, I think it might be quite a good idea to move to the moon.

Some info please?

How do the Republicans go about nominating their presidential candidate?

Why on earth do these right wing parties always invoke their right to rule. Republicans: Gods Own Party and the Tories Natural Party of Government. Total narcissism.

How do the Republicans go about nominating their presidential candidate?

There’s a state-by-state primary system among Repub voters. Anyone who wants to be the nominee has to win a majority of these state GOP representives in the run-up to the party convention which decides who will be the candidate.

I’m kinda hoping Trump runs. It will be carnage, and they will deserve it. Even if he doesn’t, he will spend the next two years attacking DeSantis, which is almost as good.

Republicans: Gods Own Party

GOP was Grand Old Party – folk may be using it differently these days of course.

just think of the damage they were able to do with Reagan as frontman.

Reagan would be considered a socialist by the MAGA crowd (seriously). Like any successful president, he was actually very pragmatic when it came to getting his agenda done. Yes, he was a conservative and free-market fundamentalist, but he wasn’t anything close to the extremes of the MAGA crowd, that’s why he was successful at attracting moderate voters.

I believe it currently stands for “Gaslight. Obstruct. Project.”

 but he wasn’t anything close to the extremes of the MAGA crowd

I’m not so sure.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/reagan-nixon-trump-white-nationalism/595465/

I’m not so sure.

No. The old Republicans courted the white-supremist voters with a few dog whistles, but they were very careful to distance themselves from anyone who actually was a white-supremist. Look up David Duke, for example. Trump turned that on its head, he made hanging out with white-supremists a litmus test of whether you are MAGA enough.

Here’s the final speech that Reagan gave as President, can you imagine the MAGA crowd voting for a candidate who said this? I’m not saying I like Reagan, I’m saying that the MAGA crowd have swung massively to the right and that they would think Reagan was a woke lefty.

https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/speech/remarks-presentation-ceremony-presidential-medal-freedom-5

Now, tomorrow is a special day for me. I’m going to receive my gold watch. And since this is the last speech that I will give as President, I think it’s fitting to leave one final thought, an observation about a country which I love. It was stated best in a letter I received not long ago. A man wrote me and said: You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan, but you cannot become a German, a Turk, or a Japanese. But anyone, from any corner of the Earth, can come to live in America and become an American.”

Here’s the full text of the speech.

Remarks at the Presentation Ceremony for the Presidential Medal of Freedom
January 19, 1989

The President. When we finish this luncheon, I hope you’ll stick around a little while. We’re having a tag sale upstairs, and everything must go. [Laughter] But, really, thank you all for coming to be with us here today.

Truly, one of the privileges of this office which I’ve found greatest joy in exercising has been the opportunity to present our nation’s highest civilian honor, the Medal of Freedom. To stand, as I have had the honor of doing, with the recipients of this award has been to stand with the flesh and blood and spirit that is the greatness of America, men and women who have so greatly served our nation and helped keep her free. The contribution of each recipient has been unique and noteworthy, and today is no exception, as we honor two remarkable Americans: Mike Mansfield and George Shultz.

Mike Mansfield has dedicated the entirety of a very long and productive lifetime to public service. He served in both Houses of Congress, spanning seven Presidents, and held the post of Senate majority leader longer than any other person. A former professor of Far Eastern history, he played an important part in shaping America’s Asian policy, serving on both the House Foreign Affairs Committee and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and then as our Ambassador to Japan. For a sizable portion of America’s history as a nation, Mike Mansfield has been in service to his country.

George Shultz — why did my voice crack just as I got to you — [laughter] — George Shultz has been a marine, an academic, and a businessman, and a public servant. He has held four Cabinet-level posts, distinguishing himself as a Secretary of Labor, Director of the Office of Management and Budget, Treasury Secretary, and finally as one of America’s great Secretaries of State. Over the last 6\1/2\ years, in managing our foreign policy, he has served wisely and met great challenges and great opportunities. George Shultz has helped to make the world a freer and more peaceful place.

And there’s nothing so precious and irreplaceable as America’s freedom. In a speech I gave 25 years ago, I told a story that I think bears repeating. Two friends of mine were talking to a refugee from Communist Cuba. He had escaped from Castro, and as he told the story of his horrible experiences, one of my friends turned to the other and said, We don’t know how lucky we are.” And the Cuban stopped and said, How lucky you are? I had someplace to escape to.”

Well, no, America’s freedom does not belong to just one nation. We’re custodians of freedom for the world. In Philadelphia, two centuries ago, James Allen wrote in his diary that If we fail, liberty no longer continues an inhabitant of this globe.” Well, we didn’t fail. And still, we must not fail. For freedom is not the property of one generation; it’s the obligation of this and every generation. It’s our duty to protect it and expand it and pass it undiminished to those still unborn.

Now, tomorrow is a special day for me. I’m going to receive my gold watch. And since this is the last speech that I will give as President, I think it’s fitting to leave one final thought, an observation about a country which I love. It was stated best in a letter I received not long ago. A man wrote me and said: You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan, but you cannot become a German, a Turk, or a Japanese. But anyone, from any corner of the Earth, can come to live in America and become an American.”

Yes, the torch of Lady Liberty symbolizes our freedom and represents our heritage, the compact with our parents, our grandparents, and our ancestors. It is that lady who gives us our great and special place in the world. For it’s the great life force of each generation of new Americans that guarantees that America’s triumph shall continue unsurpassed into the next century and beyond. Other countries may seek to compete with us; but in one vital area, as a beacon of freedom and opportunity that draws the people of the world, no country on Earth comes close.

This, I believe, is one of the most important sources of America’s greatness. We lead the world because, unique among nations, we draw our people — our strength — from every country and every corner of the world. And by doing so we continuously renew and enrich our nation. While other countries cling to the stale past, here in America we breathe life into dreams. We create the future, and the world follows us into tomorrow. Thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity, we’re a nation forever young, forever bursting with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge, always leading the world to the next frontier. This quality is vital to our future as a nation. If we ever closed the door to new Americans, our leadership in the world would soon be lost.

A number of years ago, an American student traveling in Europe took an East German ship across the Baltic Sea. One of the ship’s crewmembers from East Germany, a man in his sixties, struck up a conversation with the American student. After a while the student asked the man how he had learned such good English. And the man explained that he had once lived in America. He said that for over a year he had worked as a farmer in Oklahoma and California, that he had planted tomatoes and picked ripe melons. It was, the man said, the happiest time of his life. Well, the student, who had seen the awful conditions behind the Iron Curtain, blurted out the question, Well, why did you ever leave?” I had to,” he said, the war ended.” The man had been in America as a German prisoner of war.

Now, I don’t tell this story to make the case for former POW’s. Instead, I tell this story just to remind you of the magical, intoxicating power of America. We may sometimes forget it, but others do not. Even a man from a country at war with the United States, while held here as a prisoner, could fall in love with us. Those who become American citizens love this country even more. And that’s why the Statue of Liberty lifts her lamp to welcome them to the golden door.

It is bold men and women, yearning for freedom and opportunity, who leave their homelands and come to a new country to start their lives over. They believe in the American dream. And over and over, they make it come true for themselves, for their children, and for others. They give more than they receive. They labor and succeed. And often they are entrepreneurs. But their greatest contribution is more than economic, because they understand in a special way how glorious it is to be an American. They renew our pride and gratitude in the United States of America, the greatest, freest nation in the world — the last, best hope of man on Earth.

The Medal of Freedom represents the reverence the American people have for liberty, and it honors the men and women who through their lives do greatest honor to that freedom. The lives of the two men we honor here today tell a story about freedom and all its possibilities and responsibilities, and, well, both those that inhere in each free man and woman and those that fall upon a great and free nation. Our honorees have dedicated their lives to preserving and protecting America’s freedom. They have engaged themselves in the larger cause, that of humanity and of the world, to help extend freedom to people of other lands. There is no task more fitting for Americans than that.

So, I will now read the citations for our two very distinguished award recipients and present to them their medals. Perhaps I should mention that our first recipient today — the one who calls me kid — [laughter] — is the son of immigrants, from a country called Ireland.

And now, if Michael Mansfield and George Shultz would please come forward. George, you’re due here.

During World War I, Mike Mansfield, not yet 15, enlisted in the United States Navy, crossing the Atlantic seven times before he was discharged. His service to country would span seven decades and would help shape America’s destiny as a Pacific power. Through 34 years in Congress — including 16 as Senate majority leader — and with more than a decade as U.S. Ambassador to Japan, Mike Mansfield has set his indelible mark upon American foreign policy and distinguished himself as a dedicated public servant and loyal American.”

Ambassador Mansfield. Mr. President, First Lady, Mr. Secretary of State and Mrs. Shultz, Ambassador Matsunaga and Mrs. Matsunaga, my former colleagues from both the House and the Senate, our distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, I can’t begin to express in words, Mr. President, my deep appreciation for what you’ve said about me and the encouragement which you’ve given me in my post as your Ambassador, your personal representative, our country’s Ambassador to Japan.

However, I think that much of the credit should go to Maureen, my wife, who down through the years has been such a wonderful helpmate; whose advice, counsel, and understanding I appreciated; who worked harder at any job I’ve had and received little credit in the process. So, I want to say how much I owe to her, how much I’m indebted to her; how much I appreciate what the President has said — who has laid out a sound policy for our future in the Pacific and East Asia. I appreciate the advice and counsel that George Shultz has given to me from time to time. And I appreciate the fact that, for the first time in memory, that we have both a President of the United States and a Secretary of State who are actively interested in the Pacific, in Japan, and in East Asia. I anticipate that the policies these men have laid down will be continued.

In conclusion, we may recall that Robert Sandburg [Frost], one of our poets, said on a certain occasion, there are things to do, miles to go, and promises to keep before we sleep. Well, Maureen and I have traveled many miles. We have had and still have things to do. And we still have the promises we made over half a century ago when we were joined together. So, to her I want to give special thanks for all that she has been able to do with me. And to the President and Nancy, my thanks, my appreciation for their thoughtfulness and consideration. Thank you very much.

The President. Unyieldingly dedicated to the protection of the American national interest, the advancement of freedom and human rights, the battle against tyranny, and reductions in nuclear arms, George P. Shultz has presided over the Department of State during one of the most critical periods in the history of this nation’s foreign policy. For years of public service and his vital part in inaugurating a new era of hope in foreign policy, his countrymen honor him.”

Secretary Shultz. Mr. President, you know, Obie [Helena Shultz] has been traveling a million miles around the world with me. So, it’s been a great partnership. But, Mr. President, I feel very special about receiving this award from you, and let me explain why. There’s a phrase that’s catching on — the Reagan years.” There’s a ring to it. And, Mr. President, it is the ring of freedom. You have advocated it, fought for it. You have known that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. You have known this is a matter of principle on which you don’t compromise. You have known that there are times when it requires action — sometimes, at least initially, not necessarily popular action — but you have to do it.

You have also known — and I’ve heard you say many times — that the strength comes from We the People,” that we get our legitimacy and you get your legitimacy as President from the people. And you’ve never been in any doubt, and none of us have, about who we came here to serve: the American people.

And I see you there with your arm around Nancy. I had the privilege of going with Nancy a couple of months ago to the United Nations where she spoke about drugs. And she had the courage to say that one of the root causes of this worldwide problem is use of drugs in the United States. And we have to say no. So Nancy, too, has been a fighter for freedom — freedom from drugs. And we love you for it and revere you for it, Nancy.

So, all of these things make me especially proud to have served with you, to have been your Secretary of State. And to receive a medal from you called the Medal of Freedom has a significance for my life and Obie’s life and my children that we will never forget.

Thank you, Mr. President.

The President. Thank you. Well, ladies and gentlemen, I have been privileged to participate in this recognition of the service of these two gentlemen to this great country of ours. I’m glad that all of you could be here. And now my clock tells me that — like the letter I got the first week I was here from the little 11-year-old girl who told me all the things that I had to do and then said, Now, get over to the Oval Office and go to work.” I see I’ve still got a few more hours of work ahead of me, and we’re a little behind schedule. And so, we’ll bid you all farewell, and thank you again for all being here and participating.

Note: The President spoke at 1:22 p.m. in the State Dining Room at the White House.

It’s Nov 15th, the date on which trump said he would make a…really,really, really big announcement.
So, will he or won’t he stand for republican nominee?
My prediction was that he wouldn’t stand.
If he does, will that complicate or slow any of the investigations into or legal cases against him?
Is that part of his calculation?
Both De Santis and Youngkin are possible nominees; if they’re smart they will not engage with trump or respond to any of his insults or hot air.
Could be make or break for GOP – get most of the party back into the mainstream and marginalise the election deniers/freedom caucus/ maga obsessives OR cede control to them and become increasingly but irrelevant.
Pray for America.

Not ‘really big’. Bigger than that…

**** Orange shitgibbon will tear the Republicans to bits, fill your boots Donald.

get most of the party back into the mainstream and marginalise the election deniers/freedom caucus/ maga obsessives OR cede control to them and become increasingly but irrelevant.

I don’t think there is much evidence for that, these victories have only just scraped over the line, they haven’t smashed the nutjobs they have largely just got narrow margins of victory.

And this again comes down to the analysis of who is coming out to vote, there is very little evidence that supposed “moderate” republicans are being flipped to democrat or even just not voting. The 2020 election was won, and the 2022 midterm republican wave was halted, not by flipping voters, but by getting out the normally disenfranchised and young voters. For now they are voting against “trumpism” but they need to be given reasons to vote for democrats if their support is to be relied upon. IMO the democrats are still not inspiring voters, and could easily lose the next election by just standing still.

And what would be considered “mainstream” for republicans now? Trump is just a symptom for the management and political games the republicans have been playing for 40 years, maybe more. Going back to the pre-trump days is still obsessive lying, cheating and obstruction, Trump just made that obvious to many more people, but nothing really changed.

Going back to the pre-trump days is still obsessive lying, cheating and obstruction, Trump just made that obvious to many more people, but nothing really changed.

Yup. Ultimately Trump was a symptom not the cause. A functioning Republican party would have told him where to shove it back in 2015/16.
He did amplify the problems massively but the fault line was already there.

My prediction was that he wouldn’t stand.

If he wasn’t going to stand, he wouldn’t acknowledge it. He’s still raising a lot of money from people who want him to run, money that he’s using to pay his legal bills. No way he’s going to shut off that torrent of cash.

Repeating my earlier comment was questioning whether it was right – and it’s likely it will be proved wrong.
As for trump’s super PAC or whatever it is it’s another example of what’s wrong in american politics.
He’s not a current politician but is a conman and fraudster.
Fundraising to cover legal fees which, if he’s as wealthy as he claims, would be easily affordable.
How much of that fundraising is being used for his personal benefit – that is, not being used for legal fees.

the Dirty Digger has jumped ship.

grifters gotta grift

Trump just sent out a fundraising email for Herschel Walker that says “Contribute ANY AMOUNT IMMEDIATELY to the Official Georgia Runoff Fundraising Goal and increase your impact by 1200%” and then auto-defaults to splitting your donation 90% to Trump and 10% to Herschel Walker. pic.twitter.com/06oAKpBwx7

— Jacob Rubashkin (@JacobRubashkin) November 12, 2022

He really is thieving scum.
Is that legal?
If so, it shouldn’t be.

It’s incredible that Trump still has people that support him, incredible.

Imagine being that bloody deluded.

Looks like a 2nd series of the Trump show has been commissioned,

Trump show – 2nd series

Bit awkward announcing today given what happened to Polish citizens, but he did announce ahead.

First we had BBB, all week the ludicrous political mess with that jungle reality show, a shocking Sabre rattling escalation, and now BTB.

Well, that should well and truly mess up the Republican party for as long as Boris (and all the others!) have messed up the Tory party.

Job done.

DeSantis is just as messed up as Trump, just a bit quieter!

Going to be messy but entertaining!

Grifters gonna grift

BREAKING: Donald Trump, who tried to overthrow the results of the 2020 presidential election and inspired a deadly riot at the Capitol in a desperate attempt to keep himself in power, has filed to run for president again in 2024. https://t.co/iqIcaN3SZA

— NPR (@NPR) November 16, 2022

Well, if he wants to stay out of prison for either keeping classified documents, insurrection or tax fraud he has no choice.

I foresee a danger here, I think Trump will be defeated in the primaries, however I don’t think that will change the direction of republican politics, just put a more presentable face on it. They could then present a facade of a detoxified party that doesn’t actually represent the reality. As currently democrats are winning basically on a “anyone but trump” vote, that could really change what happens at the next election.

 As currently democrats are winning basically on a “anyone but trump” vote

I don’t think it’s that that simple, The white supremacist, anti-women, voter restriction, culture war shit that the GOP is selling just isn’t that appealing to mainstream Americans. The GOP under Trump lost in 2016 (Trump didn’t winning the majority vote), they lost in the 2018 midterms, they lost the 2020 elections, and no one thinks they’ve won these mid-terms. Sooner or later the Republican party have to face those facts.

The 2020 election was the only significant victory for the Democrats, and the republicans still increased the vote numbers, it is just that there was a massive movement in the disenfranchised and the young to vote against Trump. There is little to no evidence that normally voting americans are switching allegiances or  just not voting.

So the problem is keeping these new voters voting, IMO without the figurehead of Trump to vote against, with a new slicker more presentable frontman selling those same policies, that becomes harder.

Sooner or later the Republican party have to face those facts.

They actually tried back in 2013, they had a “post-mortem” on the 2012 loss. One of their conclusions was that they needed to broaden their appeal beyond white voters because of changing demographics. The establishment Republicans understood that, there was actually a genuine attempt at bipartisan immigration reform but Trump just destroyed any attempt at that. He understood that the base voters were motivated by grievance against anything or anybody unfamiliar, so he leapt onto every crazy bandwagon that his followers believed in.

Now the chickens have come home to roost. The base won’t accept moderates (FFS, they think Mike Pence is a RINO) and Trump will burn it all down if he’s not nominated, but the MAGA stuff is so toxic that the centrist voters that they need to win elections won’t touch them.

The 2020 election was the only significant victory for the Democrats

The 2018 midterms were a major victory for the Democrats, last week’s election was too. Republicans lost some important races that they should have won – senate seats, governorships, state level secretaries of state. It’s not just about control of congress.

 There is little to no evidence that normally voting Americans are switching allegiances or  just not voting.

It’s starting I think, There was a talking head on Fox saying that at his polling station that he was seeing “hoardes” (his words) of young single women voting and complaining that they’re not voting Republican. His suggested remedy for this situation was to “get them married off with kids, then they’ll stop having political interests”

There is little to no evidence that normally voting Americans are switching allegiances or just not voting.

There is plenty of evidence. Voters have been splitting their votes, more moderate Republicans did better than the MAGA nutters within the same states. That’s the result of moderate voters being repelled by Trump’s antics and not voting for extremist Republicans but still voting for moderates.

There is little to no evidence that normally voting americans are switching allegiances or just not voting.

The latest elections were unusual. Generally the party in office gets hammered and becomes a lame duck for the next two years. The previous case was for Bush junior when they milked the war on terror for all it was worth.
Be interesting to see exactly what drove it this time. The suggestion is lots of women not being overly impressed by the nutters in the supreme court but think it still needs analysing fully.

Sooner or later the Republican party have to face those facts.

I think the party itself has faced that fact, the problem is that the NRA/MAGA/Trump/Alt right/Q contingent now form a significant chunk of the GOP’s voting base (but certainly not all of it) and still have some sway, that worked sufficiently for them to win back in 2016, now it’s become rather toxic and the thin veneer of respectability they slapped over all the white supremacists, Conspiracy nuts and Gun fetishists has slipped too far to disguise…

It’s still a long time till the Primarys, let alone 2024 and this is Trump trying to steal a march on his competition having seen his Midas touch turn to piss in the mid-terms, it’s clear he’s now feeling a little desperate.
The thing that probably terrifies Trump most is that his grip over the GOP is slipping by the day, and that if he doesn’t get the nomination for 2024 then He is almost certainly going to spend his final years fighting multiple court cases and Bankruptcy without being able to create cover and divert would-be prosecutors from the oval office. This is his very real, personal battle for survival…

The GOP has basically gone and caught itself a MAGA parasite by eating out of the political dumpster. It’s probably going to need them to lose another election to shake that parasite, it could well split their voting base, maybe even help create a third (less influential, but more extreme) party(?). They’ve politicized and mobilised people who were on the (RW) fringes a decade ago, who are only now starting to understand that political engagement and influence doesn’t just go one way and that shouting loudly, marching with assault weapons and storming buildings isn’t how the game is played.

Whether or not a Trump/MAGA collapse in the Primarys or the 2024 election itself could push those voters back to the fringes and cause those more toxic groups to disengage from mainstream politics and the GOP again is hard to say, they’ve had a taste of direct political influence now. But if Trump manages to keep his claws in the GOP somehow it could well destroy the notion of the Republicans being a “Moderate” Centre-right party. It’s quite important that he fails now (IMO)…

Hopefully they hold off indicting him until the delicious GOP infighting has ripped the party apart.

that worked sufficiently for them to win back in 2016

In 2016, Trump was still somewhat unknown to most people, he had no record of public office for voters to judge him by. He had a hugely successful TV show which portrayed him has a savvy businessman with a knack for negotiating business deals. It was easy for people to write off the crudeness as a bit of a joke intended to troll the sensitivities of thin-skinned liberals. On top of that, Republicans could reassure themselves that, while Trump might be a political novice with a habit of saying dumb things, his White House would be staffed with professionals drawn from Republican establishment figures with decades of experience in government. If Trump could win the election, then he would be at the mercy of his advisors so they would be able to enact the GOP dream agenda.

Now that Trump has had a term as president plus a couple of years yelling from the sidelines, plus endless scandals about the insurrection, corruption, etc., voters actually have a record by which to judge him by. What worked in 2016 won’t work in 2024 because everyone has seen the reality and his opponents won’t be taken by surprise again.

“They actually tried back in 2013, they had a “post-mortem” on the 2012 loss.”

The thinking at the time was that there simply “weren’t enough angry white men left out there”.

Forgetting that there were still a lot of angry white women out there who’se nastiness hadn’t been fully tapped into yet. However, they seem to have made a lot more white women very angry recently….

Things are definitely changing but continuing to keep the youth vote motivated could be crucial.

The battle between Trump and DeSantis for the nomination is going to be like Frankie’s Two Tribes video, absoulutely brutal.

What’s Trump’s campaign slogan going to be this time?

‘Follow the Loser?’