Donald! Trump!

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  • Donald! Trump!
  • Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    At least she could remember what she said…. So want to let us know what he has delivered and achieved here? You know couple of details maybe?

    cchris2lou
    Member

    as much as I dislike Trump , at least he has opened the dialogue .

    Premier Icon akira
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    Trump, in keeping with his character, is definetely a floater.

    PJM1974
    Member

    @ninfan, I never had you down as an anarchist…

    I do sympathise with the desire to keep corporatism in check, but I don’t understand why you might think that a multi-millionaire reality TV slum landlord would be your choice, unless you subscribe to the nihilist notion that you’d like to watch it all burn. Moreover, since 2009 the cap upon individual donations to US political parties has been lifted, meaning that billionaire hard right activists like the Koch brothers are free to wield enormous influence over GOP policy, no?

    If I may confront the allegations of anti-senitism within the Labour Party for a moment, I might add that as a party member and activist myself, I’ve never encountered the type of anti-semitism hyped in the press, although I could be forgiven for the opinion that anti-semitism and anti-Israeli foreign policy are often conflated. Allegations about entrenched anti-Muslim sentiment within the Conservative Party have been made by no less a person than Baroness Warsi herself. I’m sure that Conservative activists will give a different perspective.

    Don’t forget the PIE received public funding for campaigning as recently as 1980, when the Labour Party was in opposition. I’m aware of historical links with the NCCL, but if you want to play that particular ballgame, then we can discuss the links between the Apartheid regime and certain senior Conservatives during the 1970s/1980s.

    So, hopefully I’ve established that the terms of our debate are friendly, not oppositional so I’ll ask you once again whether you actually buy into Trump’s politics or whether you’re simply enjoying getting a rise out of folk. If it’s the former, I’m genuinely interested in how that fits with your worldview – do you see the world through some sort of Bannon-esque lens in that you feel that we’re doomed to repeat the social and economic mistakes of the past and that chaos is the most efficient way of restructuring the social and economic order?

    Or will you reply with a non-sequitur or go on the offensive?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    cchris2lou
    Member

    as much as I dislike Trump , at least he has opened the dialogue .

    As much as talking is good as several fairly reputable analysis pieces go with is he has got nothing in return for taking less from NK than a series of previous presidents. He has gifted NK great bit of PR and a way out, literally rewarding the development of Nuclear Weapons.

    In the last few months he has shown his word is worth nothing, the US doesn’t stick to it’s deals and can flip friends and enemies in a matter of 144 characters.

    Premier Icon bruneep
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    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
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    Maybe Trump’s lining NK up as an option for his exile once the revolution/impeachment starts, at least he can build some luxury condos on their amazing beaches in preparation, I’m sure Kim will give him some slave labour to keep the costs down to.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    If my critics saw me walking…blah blah blah

    Oh please, spare us. If you thought for a second Trump had achieved, well, anything really, you and all the other Trumpists would be all over it like a rash. 24hrs to digest the news and everyone’s come to same conclusion.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    Aww give Trump a break…

    Good stuff may come out of his historic Facebook/Twitter opportunity, by accident and not design but I do think this is all PR fluff.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
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    Good stuff may come out of his historic Facebook/Twitter opportunity

    Must be some good sites for golf links along the NK coastline.

    Premier Icon akira
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    Trumps state department doing well this week, slagging off CNN for not covering an event that press weren’t invited to and using D-Day as an example of their relationship with Germany.  Good work.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    Yep that’s a cracker…

    Looking back in the history books, today is the 71st anniversary of the speech that announced the Marshall Plan. Tomorrow is the anniversary of the D-Day invasion. We obviously have a very long history with the government of Germany, and we have a strong relationship with the government of Germany

    i did like the Fox presenters meeting of two dictators gaffe muchly big.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    it just seems really simple- if Obama had done this, the GOP would have shit the bed, and Trump’d now be reversing it. It’s a worse deal than was made with Iran after all.

    One of my favourite lines is from Senator Tom Cotton, who says that you shouldn’t deal with dictators but it’s different when they have nuclear weapons. I’m not sure he quite understands what denuclearisation is supposed to achieve. “Dear Korea, please give up your nukes so we can treat you worse/ No? Why not?”

    ninfan
    Member

    if Obama had done this, the GOP would have shit the bed, and Trump’d now be reversing it. It’s a worse deal than was made with Iran after all.

    I’m yet to see what Trump has “given” NK that cant be taken back – in fact, as usual, theres some selective quoting going on by the media – all been up in arms about how cancelling the exercises was playing into NK’s hands, but failing to tell us what else Trump said about them being back on if talks with NK didn’t proceed

    whether you actually buy into Trump’s politics or whether you’re simply enjoying getting a rise out of folk. If it’s the former, I’m genuinely interested in how that fits with your worldview – do you see the world through some sort of Bannon-esque lens in that you feel that we’re doomed to repeat the social and economic mistakes of the past and that chaos is the most efficient way of restructuring the social and economic order?

    Its hard to disagree with his points about America offering regional security to a variety of countries for decades, allowing their economies to blossom (and trade with the US) with little in return. Expecting them to contribute to the bill for their own security (and if you look back at this argument he’s been saying it for years) is far from unreasonable – if you look at Germany in particular, and their longstanding failure to match established NATO spending targets, then its hard to justify, similar with South Korea, Taiwan, Japan & Saudi Arabia – they (and corporate bodies in them) have massively benefitted from the security and stability offered by the US and been able to use this to build their own economy that now sells into the US. (and thats before we even look at the Marshall plan)

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I’m yet to see what Trump has “given” NK that cant be taken back

    Such is the value of his signature….

    Question did he get  better commitments than previous presidents?

    As for Nato spending targets its been done to death but it has been proven. Trump is at best exaggerating when it comes to agreements and timescales.

    But as a Nato exit strategy pissing off all your allies seems like a good start.

    Premier Icon bowglie
    Subscriber

    Maybe it’s just me (and apologies if it’s already been said), but does this whole Trump-NK thing look a bit too conveniently orchestrated by someone who wants to keep Trump in power ….. cough..Vlad!  Classic diversion tactic.

    tjagain
    Member

    Its hard to disagree with his points about America offering regional security to a variety of countries for decades, allowing their economies to blossom (and trade with the US) with little in return

    Its pretty easy really – installing right wing dictators in exchange for a few crumbs and using vicious sanctions if the countries wish to install progressive governments democtratically

    See Iran contra, see invasion of Grenada, see Argentina and see it happening again in Venezuala

    cchris2lou
    Member

    What does the USA get out of protecting other countries ?

    Billions of dollars in weapons contracts . That is why they do it .

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    What does the USA get out of protecting other countries ?

    Political Penis Extension (PPE)

    ninfan
    Member

    using vicious sanctions if the countries wish to install progressive governments democtratically

    Hmm, Grenada wasn’t in any respect the instillation of a ‘progressive’ (you mean communist really, don’t you?) democratic government.

    The coup that installed the moderate marxist-leninist leader, Maurice Bishop in ’79 wasn’t democratic, and it was internal fractures in that dictatorship that led to him being executed four years later* and replaced by another member of the same party, Coard, and then again a few days later with another NJM leader, General Hudson Austin.

    *”My God, my God. They have turned the guns against the people” http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/20/newsid_3720000/3720608.stm

    Democracy only returned in ’84 after the US invasion.

    So, frankly, your claim about “installing progressive governments democratically” is bollox isn’t it? What you really reveal is that you’re more than comfortable with Coups and Juntas that rule by fear and terror, as long as they result in communist leadership (oh, how very close to Jeremy Corbyn’s belief system you really are TJ…)

    And thats before we even begin to discuss how the replacement of the Shah of Iran with Ayatolla Khomeni on the back of the Iranian revolution was so far from the instillation of a democratic progressive government as to be utterly laughable.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    So still no idea what Trump got from Kim then?

    tjagain
    Member

    Whats that wooshing noise?

    Democratically elected government of Nicaragua – multiple attempts to overthrow it and attempts to install right wing despots- thats Iran Contra.  sponserd invasions as well as political destabilisation

    Democratically elected government of Chile – overthrown by a US backed coup installing a right wing dictator responsible for horrendous human rights abuses.

    Greneda – what right do the US have to invade?

    Bay of Pigs?  etc etc.

    Washington bullets again.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    So still no idea what Trump got from Kim then?

    Pretty pics for his his Facebook and Twitter.

    Sort of puff his base likes playing his reality tv president role.

    ninfan
    Member

    Democratically elected government of Nicaragua

    The Sandinistas seized power in a coup in 79, declared a state of emergency and announced that “elections are unnecessary“ US support for the Contras via CIA was well established long before the 1984 election. So, another TJ lie – it wasn’t the instillation of a progressive democratic government, it was just another junta

    Democratically elected government of Chile

    Allende leadership (a minority eadershil from the start) was ended after the majority parties in congress called for him to stand down, and he refused to – congress then called in the military. So, once again, him remaining in power would have been the opposite of democracy.

    Greneda – what right do the US have to invade?

    the Governor General, Paul Scoon, asked for their intervention. This was his constitutional right as Grenada remained a constitutional Monarchy and he was the formal representative of the Queen on the island.

    Bay of Pigs?  etc etc.

    oh, look, TJ once gain defending another military coup, installing a communist dictatorship rather than the Instillation of a ‘progressive’ government democratically as you originally claimed to be defending

    you really have a thing for the old commie coup fantasy don’t you TJ

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    So the Artist of the deal… What did he manage to get? I think he finally managed to one up Obama there on the deal 😉 Makes Iran look like a cheeky little tip.

    oldnpastit
    Member

    So clearly Manafort though he was involved in something illegal, or he wouldn’t have been trying to mess with witnesses.

    grahamh
    Member

    It seems the great leader has the ability to talk to the dead.

    Premier Icon AD
    Subscriber

    The man has bigly skills.

    Wonder if ninfan wants to add some cheerleading for his necromancy skills 🙂

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I imagine there was a bigly presents around him

    I’m glad we know the excuse he is using to justify the new Trump Golf resort

    chewkw
    Member

    world peace

    Well done to both countries.  Peace it shall be in the region.

    Asean supports the good gestures from both countries and there will be prosperous trade in the region.

    As for China, Asean has traded with China for thousand of years (at least 5 thousands) and has never been a threat but a trading partner.

    Britain is heading in the right direction.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    So good, we were all worried about you Chewkw hope the reboot went well and the supreme leader approves of you

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Asean supports the good gestures from both countries and there will be prosperous trade in the region.

    As for China, Asean has traded with China for thousand of years (at least 5 thousands) and has never been a threat but a trading partner.

    chewkw, perfectly timed

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/15/trump-administration-to-slap-a-25-percent-tariff-on-50-billion-of-chinese-goods-threatens-more.html

    chewkw
    Member

    chewkw, perfectly timed

    Even if it is 100% (an extreme example) tarrif it is still a non issue because it is a normal competitive gesture.

    We in ASEAN accepts that it is perfectly normal for countries to protect their own interests.

    Trade war is just a temporal adjustment for us.

    p/s: President Trump is doing the right thing to protect Mericans interest.  Even China and Asean respect that.   Who doesn’t want to protect own interest?

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    All hail the killfile.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Is that ASEAN tyne and wear pet? Is it near Cramlington or Whitley Bay?

    chewkw
    Member

    Is that ASEAN tyne and wear pet? Is it near Cramlington or Whitley Bay?

    I am a legal extension of ASEAN in the North East.   😀

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