I still think he’s a scheming ****

Aye, and there’s the plaguy rub. Most MPs think he’s a lying shit, most people (after Barnard Castle) think he’s a lying shit, and so does the Chairman of the Inquiry (Hunt, said of the allegations, unless there’s evidence, they’re just speculation, and apparently he doesn’t think Cummings saying “I was in the room” is enough), for a man who’s reputation was largely built on weaponising “falsehoods” to come in front of a committee and play the “honest, Guv it was chaos, I did me best, but…” card seems at best Hopeful?

Hancock got off scot-free in the commons this morning, mostly because Tory MPs when it came down to it, will offer more support to him, than they will to Cummings…

Interesting points above and I hadn’t bothered to read all the threads on the subject to be fair. Agree that an earlier lockdown and closing borders would have been a good idea but there would still have been a huge backlash against that.

The backlash would have been from the usual vocal-but-not-very-bright suspects. Unfortunately for the rest of us, these idiots represent Johnson’s core support, which he shamelessly panders too.

In reality, all polling showed overwhelming public support for a more cautious approach

I don’t know about you, but we’d effectively locked down weeks before the official lockdown, and I watched in utter disbelief as they continued to let large sporting events go ahead.

The Cheltenham Festival and Champions League match at Anfield (with 5000 fans flying in to Liverpool from Madrid, which was the epicentre of infection in Europe) being acts of what seemed to me to be suicidally reckless stupidity, under the circumstances

there would still have been a huge backlash against that.

Maybe not – other countries were doing it, pictures from Italy and Spain were horrific, and by going in harder and earlier, it would have been shorter, so less impact on business and the economy.

Several times Cummings said the groupthink was that the public wouldn’t take lockdowns, when the vast majority actually did.

April 2020 – people on the left had Cummings down as a liar and the new price of darkness. People on the right defended him and supported his position at the time.

May 2021 – people on the left are taking every word said yesterday as the truth and should be trusted. People on the right say he’s a liar, bitter and twisted.

Whereas a lot of people have been and still do look at what he is saying, looking back at the historical data (news reports etc) at what was going on at that time, coming to their own conclusions and basing their assessment of the current news on that analysis. To state that one person is 100% a liar or 100% truthful is just stupid, it’s also fuelled by the media.

I still think he’s a scheming ****, but broken clocks are still correct twice a day

More likely that right now what’s in the best interests of the country and Dominic have aligned. When he was inside No 10 they were most likely at opposite ends of the scale.

More likely that right now what’s in the best interests of the country and Dominic have aligned. When he was inside No 10 they were most likely at opposite ends of the scale.

Very fair comment

Interesting points above and I hadn’t bothered to read all the threads on the subject to be fair. Agree that an earlier lockdown and closing borders would have been a good idea but there would still have been a huge backlash against that.

Sorta living on a island is a big benefit during a pandemic, squandering it by not shutting your borders after four years of a ‘taking back control‘ mantra seems to be an odd decision.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/26/dominic-cummings-the-movie-jaw-dropping-grubby-and-delusional

John Crace, excellent as usual.

It’s all a bit ‘Honest and Dishonest Guard’ riddle isn’t it?

https://riddlesbrainteasers.com/honest-dishonest-guards/

We know Dom’s a liar so we can’t trust what he says. But we know Boris is also a liar. But they’re saying different things so they can’t both be lying.

“Boris, what would Dominic say if he was asked about your bodies piled high statement”

I don’t think a Corbyn government would have done any better. They were no better prepared or skilled to deal with a pandemic

But, and this is THE but, both Joris and Maybot before him were warned that something was coming. The (conservative) govt. had also been warned that they were woefully unprepared. AND THEY DID EFF ALL ABOUT IT.
Exercise Cygnus
(And yes, for the hairsplitters I know they weren’t simulating exactly the same thing, but I hope the point is made.)

Agree that an earlier lockdown and closing borders would have been a good idea but there would still have been a huge backlash against that.

And that’s where a competent and well organised government comes in, run by a leader that has the best interests of the country at heart and would have been able to convince the public that it was the best plan(based on evidence from other countries) to go for immediate and very intense restrictions .

As said above,this bunch of clowns squandered all our advance warning time.

And yes, for the hairsplitters I know they weren’t simulating exactly the same thing, but I hope the point is made

There was an analogy ages back. If the fire inspectors came round and saw your fire exits were locked they’d tell you to unlock them.

If subsequently your factory had a gas leak and no-one could escape because your exits were blocked the HSE wouldn’t be giving you an easier ride because you hadn’t planned for that exact scenario.

There was a woeful lack of preparation exposed by Cygnus and claiming that that was a Flu sim and this was different is totally irrelevant.

John Crace, excellent as usual.

“On balance, it felt as if some light had crept through the cracks. The families of the bereaved deserved better than truths carved out of a desire to settle some personal scores.”

Enquiry. Now. The excuse that we should be “getting on with the recovery from Covid” is utterly bogus… this pandemic could well have further twists and turns to it yet, and we need to avoid further government missteps of the kind we have had to watch from the sidelines, open mouthed in disbelief, over the last 18 months.

Cummings = Vicky Pollard

The excuse that we should be “getting on with the recovery from Covid” is utterly bogus

Someone noted this morning on Radio 4 that they’re quite happy to crack on with gerrymandering political boundaries, voter ID and all manner of other things that are nothing to do with ‘recovering from a pandemic’ yet suit their own ends, but apparently they can’t fit in a public inquiry

Someone noted this morning on Radio 4 that they’re quite happy to crack on with gerrymandering political boundaries, voter ID and all manner of other things that are nothing to do with ‘recovering from a pandemic’ yet suit their own ends, but apparently they can’t fit in a public inquiry

Self serving and contradictory hypocrisy from the government – surely not?

We know Dom’s a liar so we can’t trust what he says. But we know Boris is also a liar. But they’re saying different things so they can’t both be lying.

They could both be lying in slightly different ways.
There does seem to be the central office defence trying the “left now believe everything he says” line which a)is rubbish and b)skips over their fanatical defence of him last year.

Anyone watch any of the Hancock love in session? Superb how many tory MPs now think Cummings is the worse thing ever.
Bonus points to the one who printed out their Barnard Castle eye test as a background but somehow forgot to mention that when sending the defence of him emails last year.
Wonder if Hancock was feeling relieved about their moronic support or, rightly, knew it could be as quickly removed on orders as Cummings support was.

Poor little Matty. Not very bright, is he?

Even now Dom and pointed it out in words of less than 2 syllables he still doesn’t realise he’s been the fall guy from day 1, and Boris is only keeping him around as a blame sponge to be thrown to the wolves when the public inquiry happens

And that’s where a competent and well organised government comes in, run by a leader that has the best interests of the country at heart and would have been able to convince the public that it was the best plan(based on evidence from other countries) to go for immediate and very intense restrictions .

I am sort of assuming you are north of the border fasthaggis?

We see this in Scotland. Holyroods limited powers meant some things the scottish government wanted to do they were not able and some of the same mistakes have been made north of the border but I have confidence Sturgeon and co are attempting to make the right decisions for the right reasons and Sturgeon has apologised for mistakes made. I am sure people are more inclined to follow guidance if they have confidence in their leaders.

It’s all a bit ‘Honest and Dishonest Guard’ riddle isn’t it?

https://riddlesbrainteasers.com/honest-dishonest-guards/

We know Dom’s a liar so we can’t trust what he says. But we know Boris is also a liar. But they’re saying different things so they can’t both be lying.

Hancock got off scot-free in the commons this morning, mostly because Tory MPs when it came down to it, will offer more support to him

Noticed one of them blowing smoke up Hancock’s arse was called Willie Wragg. Perfect companion to a Penis Beaker!

We know Dom’s a liar so we can’t trust what he says. But we know Boris is also a liar. But they’re saying different things so they can’t both be lying.

They can when it’s not a binary choice.

Noticed one of them blowing smoke up Hancock’s arse was called Willie Wragg. Perfect companion to a Penis Beaker!

His brother (Toe) has been doing very well out of PPE/Testing procurement, apparently….

They can when it’s not a binary choice.

Indeed. It is safer to assume they are both lying as a starting point.

This is what we have come to – unless there is a reliable third party in the room, we will never know the truth.

Excellent logic test/game, funny way to run a country, though….

It is safer to assume they are both lying as a starting point.

The Guardian picks up on that point quite well. It’s not very complimentary about DC but it does point out that what he is saying at least matches most of what is already known.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/26/the-guardian-view-on-cummings-testimony-a-vivid-portrait-of-failure

I don’t think a Corbyn government would have done any better. They were no better prepared or skilled to deal with a pandemic.

A couple of points:

A major flu-like pandemic has been one of the major risks on the National Security Strategy for at least a decade. In any large organisation is the role of the executive (the cabinet) to review those risks regularly and ensure that robust mitigation plans are in place. Those plans would be the responsibility of the permanent secretary of the Department of Health and it would be the responsibility of the Minister to ensure they were reviewed and refreshed by the appropriate experts. This is the role for a technocrat not a politician, regardless of hue.

Exercise Cygnus is 2016 revealed that the country was ill-prepared and therefore the role of the executive to ensure that the risk mitigation plan was updated and resourced accordingly. May’s government chose to ignore this as they charged headlong and blindsided by Brexit. It’s not like they weren’t forewarned by SAARS and bird flu.

The lack of preparedness is entirely down to the incompetence of a succession of Tory governments who failed in their duty to ‘lead’. The OP also demonstrates, like a lot of the populace, their complete ignorance as to how the apparatus of government operates; how poorly the people of the UK are being served but depressingly their political loyalties are more akin to the blind faith of football or religion.

So yeah, like I said, I don’t think the Corbyn government would have done any better especially as they would have been at the mercy of lack of planning in the previous tory governments so would be no better prepared and unlikely more skilled (you saw the Corbyn cabinet didn’t you)
That is not defending or excusing the Johnson government who **** it up from the start.

My estimate was too conservative (pun intended), but mashr pretty much called it

NEW – Westminster Voting Intention:

CON 44% (+6)
LAB 33% (-5)
LD 8% (-)
GRN 6% (+1)
SNP 4% (-1)
OTH 4% (-1)

1,041 respondents, 25-26 May '21. Changes w/ 27-29 April '21.https://t.co/WM9RnHBEIp pic.twitter.com/PgRkireJI6

— Survation. (@Survation) May 27, 2021

^^^

A country of c***s.

Writ large for all the world to see. Shame on us.

Well that’s the black dog back in the room that exists in my head. That poll just says it all. This country is f****d. Why can all the opposition not just get together just once and do something about it? Properly miserable about the whole thing.

^^^

Basically because the electorate (or at least too large a proportion of it) are basically boorish pillocks who keep doubling down on stupidity because they regard changing their minds as a humiliation.

We are ****ed.

Some days I feel like I’ve slipped into another dimension.

I don’t think a Corbyn government would have done any better. They were no better prepared or skilled to deal with a pandemic

So yeah, like I said, I don’t think the Corbyn government would have done any better especially as they would have been at the mercy of lack of planning in the previous tory governments

We were totally prepared to deal with a pandemic – as a country. We just had a Government – and more particularly a prime minister –  that failed to use it effectively.  Ultimately all the Governments actions were for the most part, the correct actions  – they were obviously the correct action because not only did we already we have a plan for pandemics (we already had a test and trace system for instance – if you’d come home form your travels with a dose of Ebola anyone you’d come into contact with would soon get a call) and we had functioning real-time examples all around the world of (A)- courses of action that were effective and (B)-  courses of action that were disastrous –

but Boris’s reluctance to the the right thing and cowardice to stand by his decision to do the wrong thing meant we did the right thing weeks and months too late. He did the right thing when he couldn’t put it off any longer. By not doing (A) quickly enough we got the results from (B)….. for the price of (A).

The only thing that Corbyn would have had to do differently to have done better would be for his first instinct to be the safety of our citizens.

Jeez, that survey.

Are we all wrong in this echo chamber? Is there something about the Tory government that we’re just not getting?

Some days I feel like I’ve slipped into another dimension.

I genuinely don’t recognise this country as what I thought it was. I knew there were racists, bigots and gammons around but in no way did I think that there were so many of them that they could keep a corrupt and incompetent Govt. in power. It’s a monster that Cummings helped create and it’s incredibly worrying that even he cannot change it’s course.

The next decade or more is going to be absolute hell.

You’re not getting the fact that more people would sell their Granny for a tenner than you realise . . . .

Dog shit and litter strewn land of self entitled Tory voting red top reading ****.
I’m gonna **** off to France and leave em to it

Oh I can’t anymore……

Just look at this thread. We’ve got a pandemic that has been vastly worse for the poor, and a government that repeatedly have shown to not care and to try to put the economy before public health and yet we get comments that Corbyn wouldn’t do any better.

I’ve had a sinking feeling about this country since 2010 when Nick Clegg played King maker to the nasty party. Ever since then the voting public have kept shooting the country in the foot.

Things can only get, oh hang on…

No one cares. We’re on the way out now, no one wants to look back, they want to be on the beach or down the pub with mates, this is just detail. Shady PPE contracts do not effect people’s lives (apart from the winners of those contracts) so shrug.

Shown by this thread, less than 5%? of STW users have commented on something which has been played out for months in front of us, I’d imagine that extrapolates to the general public I can’t see how you can’t have an opinion, but people have to get the kids to school, make dinner, visit granny whatever, they don’t have time for the whys and wherefores

The majority of the country (all about me) vote Tory, the rest have their vote split about 4 ways, till they find a way of shifting it to 1:1 they’ll be no change and as long as people are able to get a new plate car on finance and have a reasonable disposable income they’ll be no reason to change, the folks at the bottom used to have a union, they now have nothing and no hope or reason to think they’ll be any change.

I really hope we turn this around in my life time so my kids can see an alternative to the dog eat dog but I can’t see it happening