Dog with cancer – op or not?

Hi, noticed a lump under my dogs right eye and on taking it to the vet for scans and stuff was told it’s cancer. We are taking her on Tuesday to see the vet who will perform the operation, if we decide on that, but we aren’t sure if it’s the right thing to do.

Belle is maybe 8 years old and we’ve had here for 6 years. Previous owner neglected her and she was extremely thin when we got her (which is why i can’t tell how old she really is). Seems happy and healthy otherwise and doesn’t appear to be in any pain. From reading up, vets remove an area 2-3cm bigger than the lump to ensure they get all the cancer. That’s bone, eye and jaw which will cause her a lot of pain and discomfort – and there’s no guarantee that she’ll be ok after as there’s a chance it’ll come back.

I want what’s best for my dog but don’t think this operation is the best course of action. I feel that operating will aggravate the condition (no medical background- just my feeling) and my partner wants to go though with the procedure but wants guarantees – and there aren’t any. We don’t have pet insurance and my partner thinks this is the reason i don’t want to proceed – but it’s not. I don’t want to cause my dog pain and distress. I would spend every penny i had if i thought that this would cure her but honestly i don’t think it will.

Here’s a recent (2 months ago) pic of her being all happy and dog like – you can see a slight swelling under her right eye (it’s slightly bigger now).

Sad to say i don’t trusts vets that much as i’ve prior experience with them taking advantage of pet owners love for their pets and milking them for as much money as possible.

I know there are many dog owners/lovers on here and would appreciate if anyone has had a similar decision to make – and the outcome.

Operation, our 12 year old Spaniel lived another 2 and a half fully active years after. Then keeled over from something completely unrelated.

Ask if you can get a referal to here http://qvsh.co.uk/ – the cancer was supposedly inoperable according to our vet – but these guys/girls took it on and did an utterly brilliant job. They looked after her wonderfully as well, it wasn’t just good surgeons – it was good everything in terms of care.

There’s no guarantees, but they can give you a prognosis based on sound empirical data.

If it doesnt seem like a particularly aggressive cancer that could have spread elsewhere and is an easy procedure then why not?

When something is really causing the dog to have a low quality of life and is going to be very invasive then PTS is the kindest route but this doesnt strike me from what little I know as a case like that. If concerned get a second opinion. Your vet will appreciate that you dont have insurance and wont push for stuff that has a high chance of failure/may result in a miserable life or is not needed.

Work out how much you have saved by not having insurance so far.

A lab is not a dog I wouldn’t have insurance for.

Ps if they end up taking the tear duct out then you may have to apply drops a couple of times a day so if they are quoting £X a month for those direct from them it is likely you can either use a cheaper human equivalent (check first) or get the dog stuff cheaper from Pet Drugs Online or similar.

If the cancer was elsewhere which didn’t require an eye getting removed I would opt for the operation. If she was a good bit younger I would also go for it as she would still have plenty good time left to adapt. Sadly at her age and considering her poor start to life I probably would not opt for the operation. Money wouldn’t be much of a factor, more that I would let her go whilst still happy, active and a wag in her tail than put her through an operation which could lead to any number of possibilities, one of which might be a miserable end to go with her poor start.

My old dog had a tumour on his eye ball, we got it removed and he coped fantastically well. He was about 11 yrs then. They are hugely resilient animals.
Unfortunately the tumours on his bladder and kidney did for him.

If you don’t go for the op, watch her closely. The most difficult thing is being honest with yourself about deciding when is the right time to say goodbye.
Someone on here said “better a month early than a week late”.

My lovely cattle dog was 11 when he started to lose weight and poo soup .He was put under to investigate and a massive tumour was found on his spleen that nothing could be done with .I had him put to sleep whilst he was still under .Then I cried a lot .He had been off his food and lethargic for only a few days but the thing had been growing for ages .

Thanks for the replies.

My thinking is very similar your own km79, and having had a previous dog that had various visible tumours removed but died from internal ones, it’s very difficult to know what to do. Despite dogs being tough little things wrecker, it’s stressful on them and us owners especially, spending the final months/years repeatedly being operated on, recovering, operated on etc. I swore i wouldn’t do that to another animal and myself again.

She is currently still full of life and so happy when she knows we’re going for a drive as that means an adventure in the forest with daddy. I don’t want her to associate car journeys with trips to the vet as my previous dog did in the end. Looking at his face is was as if he was saying ‘why are you doing this to me?’

I just wish she could talk and tell me what she wants to do 😐

Essentially, the question is ‘what’s the prognosis if left untreated?’

If it’s not likely to cause her significant distress in the next year or two, certainly not as much as the stress of operating and recovery, then I strongly suspect that I would be with KM79, let her enjoy herself and put her to sleep further down the line if she starts suffering.

Get the op done. Our’s had an aggressive type of cancer on his chest about 4 years ago, we were told he might not come through the operation. We gave the go ahead on the proviso we didnt want him to suffer, so if it became apparent during the operation that things were worse than expected, the vet was to do the right thing.
Fast forward 4 years, he’s 15 now and busy snoring his head off led next to me on the sofa 😀

Get the op.

It won’t be hard for him, when the time comes, only for you. It won’t be anything for him. I’d be inclined that if it isn’t causing distress, and there’s no indications that it’s progressing fast, to see how long he can go with a wag in his tail and a spring in his stride.

Dogs aren’t like us, there’s no ‘one more christmas’ or ‘I won’t make it to see the kids grow up’ regret, there’s nothing for them beyond the prospect of a walk or a lick at the leftovers in the dishwasher. Better another 6 months living like a champion than another 2 years of enduring.

Get the op or have her put down. Harsh but potentially watching a dog writhe around in agony if something bursts is not worth having on your conscience just so you can have an extra few months. Been there done it and never again.
A cancerous tumor that is getting visibly bigger in two months is quite aggressive I would of thought.

In terms of vets if you don’t trust them then you are at the wrong vet. If you are at a chainstore vet, look at moving to a local one and get a new opinion. Less likely to be referred to a “specialist” where the costs start spiraling.

For a dog at that age with no other illness I would get the op!

My cocker spaniel was 7 1/2 when he was diagnosed with cancer of the anal glands. It is a very aggressive cancer and killed a cocker that my family owned many years ago. I had the local vet carry out the operation to remove the tumour and cancerous gland but decided against chemo (the treatment would have made him miserable and is not proven to increase lifespan). A few years ago the same dog then developed malignant melanoma in his toe. Again, the same vet removed the tumour and affected tissue.

My dog is now 13 1/2 and although showing the effects of getting older he is still very much alive and very happy. Both of the operations were major and involved removing more than just the tumours but I’m so glad I paid up and had the little bugger operated on. The thing to remember is that dogs are amazingly resilient and if the operation is a success your beloved pet will be leaping around like a fool before you know it.

I don’t have anything helpful to add other than my thoughts and hopes that it all works out ok for you all. Bless her – you can tell from the photo she’s a lovely thing!

No easy answer I’d probably not have to op done, Mrs Taxi would push to have it done. I’m in the dogs need to be dogs camp. Running, playing chasing balls all of that stuff.

This sounds like something my father in law had done. Not to a dog, to himself. Small chunk removed on his cheek, about 2cm square. All cancer has gone.

I’d have it done.

Give half the money you’d spend to a local charity that can actually do something good for people, and then get another dog.

And yes we have dogs (and horses), have had them for years.

@ munro
The op said they’d take the eye, and bone including some from the jaw, so its very different from your FIL.

Awful decision to have to make, my thoughts are with you.

Whatever you decide you have given her 6 years of love and fun and adventure. If she could talk, be sure that she’d thank you for that.

For what it’s worth if it was one of my two, I wouldn’t… but that’s easy to say when it isn’t one of them. For me it’s not being able to explain to them what is happening and why that troubles me.

All the best.

Hi This is Euros partner. Just back from a family walk/adventure with our beloved dog, Belle. I am so grateful for all the comments and was surprised at just how many of you have taken the time to comment. We have until Tuesday to make a very difficult decision and just hope we make the right one. Thanks again x

If there’s one thing about STW it’s that we’re a pretty caring bunch really – plus there’s a lot of dog lovers on here.

(and thankfully the h8ers have stayed away from this thread)

Difficult call. Most of our dogs have had to be put to sleep due to cancer (1 Golden Retriever and 2 X Flat Coated Retrievers). Very difficult decision to make and we’ve always explored the surgery options beforehand with varying degrees of success.

The Goldie had leukaemia and should have bee put down a lot sooner. My mother prolonged his suffering with blood transfusion after blood transfusion because she couldn’t cope with the idea of death.

Flatcoat 1 lived to a long and healthy 11 years (for a Flatcoat). He had a small tumour in his nailbed which was operated on by a vet we trusted and he lived for another year and a half. When he did die he went downhill rapidly over the course of a couple of weeks and the vet did some exploratory surgery and found his body riddled with cancer. We had him put to sleep on the operating table. Still upsets me thinking about it but it was the kindest thing to do.

Flatcoat 2 had the same nailbed tumour but it was a different kind of cancer. He was also only 6 years old. He had two operations but it just kept coming back so we agreed to put him to sleep as soon as he started to go downhill. He was a tough old boot though and kept going for another 6 months. Finally spread to his brain and he had a seizure so we called the vets the next day. Such a character, died before his time.

I’d always give a dog a chance, regardless of age, however it all depends on the age of the dog and the severity of the operation. Dogs can live with losing an eye or a limb and will bounce back surprisingly quickly, but you’d need to trust the vet and get their assurance that the risks outweigh the potential negatives.

2 of our 5 dogs had cancer. We opted to have them put to sleep. One cannot explain to a dog the reasons for their sickness and it seemed the best and kindest option to us.

Either way, it’s not an easy decision and one only you can take. On a more callous approach, the cost will be substantial and to me was never a good use of the money. If you’ve shed loads of cash to spare it me be an easier decision to make, but to spend thousands on a pet never sat well with me.

Luckily, the dogs were really Mrs Z’s babies so the final decision rested with her. She’s quite a practical lass and took the decision to have them put to sleep.

I just hope she’s as upset at my passing when the time comes as she was with all our dogs. Having said that, big old rusty tufty geezer that I am, I couldn’t stay with them as the vet carried out the procedure. I sat in the waiting room balling my eyes out.

Good luck to the OP, It’s not an easy choice and whatever you decide I wish you well.

Euro, only you and yours will know the right thing to do – for all of your family. However, if this was me – I would give treatment a go first and then consider my options depending on outcome.

Remember, whatever you choose, you have given a beautiful creature a wonderful life and made them part of your family. Even if you decide on treatment and it takes time – it will not change the brilliant thing you have done.

Thinking of you and yours.

One of my cats had cancer which in the end necessitated having an eye out – asked the vet what he would do and he suggested having the op. I wish we hadn’t and had let him go then as he wasn’t ever really happy after. Hard call but he had been fine on chemo meds for 4.5 years (at £90.00 month – don’t start me on robbin’ vets / pharm companies!) but I think we hung on to him a bit too long.

there’s no guarantee that she’ll be ok after as there’s a chance it’ll come back.

This is the crux for me. I had similar with a cat, asked the vet “if I do this, will he be ok?” and got the answer “well, no, he’ll be very ill.” No brainer.

Essentially, the question is ‘what’s the prognosis if left untreated?’

That’s the counterpoint to it. It comes to a point where you have to ask, “who am I doing this for?” Are you going to end up with a one-eyed, distressed dog in a lot of pain for, what, your own selfish sentimental value? You might feel better cos she’s still around but at what cost to the pooch?

Terrible choice to have to make and I feel for you. But as a yogurt-knitting animal lover I know what I’d do.

I really hope I’m wrong, but your reluctance seems to be based on cost. It money was not a factor, what would you do? With no medical/vetinary background, why do you think you are in a position to judge if the operation will only aggravate the problem? Get the op done, and good luck.

Hi Euro and family,

There is a large spectrum of “cancers” from the benign and of little concern to those highly aggressive and malignant ones. It is quite difficult to fully appreciate the best course of action without knowing exactly the suspicion/diagnosis is. The ideal scenario would be to diagnose the cancer type ( usually by biopsy) then plan surgery, getting a biopsy itself is usually an operation requiring general anaesthetic, hence the common practical path of removing the mass first ask questions later. Another option is a fine needle aspirate done conscious ( a kind of reverse injection) not always conclusive but can place the ball in the right park, worth discussing with your vet maybe.

The margins (area you remove) you quote are quite severe probably for aggressive tumours, they might not be required or as you point out, be sensible to attempt in that location.

I’d echo what others have said, if you don’t feel happy with your vet seek a second opinion, a good vet wouldn’t be offended.

She’s not that old, so try and stay positive.

all the best,
Stoat

really hope I’m wrong, but your reluctance seems to be based on cost. It money was not a factor, what would you do? With no medical/vetinary background, why do you think you are in a position to judge if the operation will only aggravate the problem? Get the op done, and good luck.

It is a factor though, unless you’re offering to pay.

Quite. Unfortunately my point Is that the OP states that money is not the deciding factor, but the rest of the post suggests otherwise (vets ‘milking people for as much money as possible’). Again, I really hope I’m wrong, but it looks like the OP is looking for excuses not to spend the money. I hope I’m wrong, and he is just weighing up the options with the dogs best interest at heart. Second opinion from a different Vet would be a good idea.

Get a second opinion and then decide to pay which Vet.

Make sure it is not malignant and possible outcome.

Poor doggy and O.P.

This is a dilemma for us at the moment.

Our dog, Lubo, a nine-and-a-half year old mutt, was the absolute picture of vitality and mobility up until the beginning of this month.

What started as an inability to put weight on his front left paw soon spread to unsteadiness and lack of control in his back legs as well.

He then appeared to go blind on his left side, and went through a phase of crashing into things, with a kind of slump of his head to the left side.

Took him to the vet, who believed he had either had a stroke or had a tumour or lesion on his brain. Wanted to send him for an MRI scan to confirm this, but neither our pet insurance or our savings stretches to this expensive procedure. However the vet has done blood tests which have apparently ruled out other possible symptoms.

Since then, he’s stabilised quite a bit in terms of his mobility and co-ordination – but he still doesn’t appear to have full control of three of his legs.

He doesn’t seem to be in pain but spends a lot of time just lying in an inert and faraway state. That said, he still perks up and seems enlivened by the usual doggy obsessions; walks (necessarily now shorter and more frequent to reflect his curtailed range and energy levels), food, barking when someone comes to the door etc.

However, the vet doesn’t think he’s going to improve from where he’s at at the moment, that it’s likely to be a progressive illness. Whilst it’s not the vet’s decision to make, and I realise they have to affect a studied neutrality in these situations, we kind of got the feeling from the vet that it might be an idea to have him put to sleep.

So we’re in a kind of limbo of keeping an eye on him and trying to figure out whether he’s still getting enough out of the bits of life he enjoys to counter all the other stuff he’s now unable to do.

Whilst it’s desperately sad watching him hobble around with the memory of him in apparently perfect health still so fresh in our minds, it seems like it might be a bit precipitate to have him euthanized just yet. Of course we don’t want him to suffer – but he doesn’t seem to be suffering. Having him put down seems like it might be a massive over-reaction to us having had to adjust in the space of a couple of weeks from having a young dog to having an old dog, without any warning or progressiveness in the deterioration of his physical capabilities.

😥

Here he is, in happier times, just a couple of months ago…

Fine looking dog Stef, my heart goes out to you 😥

Again, many thanks for your opinions and kind words folks, it’s given my partner/myself lots to think about. I originally started this thread at my partners request as she was the one who wasn’t sure what course to take. I was against the procedure since hearing what the vet said after the biopsy, and their lack of confidence they would be able to remove enough of the surrounding area to give the operation a fair chance of success. I was heartened to read others share my view on this.

I really hope I’m wrong, but it looks like the OP is looking for excuses not to spend the money.

I thought it was obvious that was not the case, seems not. Even if we were insured i’d still not want to put a happy pet through what seems to be quite a drastic operation. As i said above, i’ve been through that before and it just didn’t feel like the right thing to be doing.

We had Belle out yesterday and she was her happy, adventurous self. Still chasing squirrels and ducks and not fetching the stick 😀 . She’s a happy and content dog but that will change if we decide to go ahead with the op. Again, that doesn’t seem right to me.

Just back from the vets. Spoke to the guy who would be performing the op but due to position of the lump he didn’t think the risk was worth the reward and advised against the procedure. Kinda relieved that he came to same conclusion as us as my partner had decided the operation would not be in the best interests of Belle – we both agreed to go with what ever the vet decided was the best course of action. She’s been prescribed a course of steroid/chemo tablets that will hopefully keep her healthy a little longer. She’s going to be one spoiled little doggy for then next few months 😀

Good luck Euro. Really hope her remaining days are many and happy ones.

Sad to hear that it isn’t curable, but as i said above, if it was me i’d rather live 6 months as a champ than endure 2 years. And she doesn’t have the same expectations and aspirations that we have, to grow old and see our kids grow up or whatever. As long as she has a good day today, that’s all she wants, and tomorrow is a concept that doesn’t really exist.

That’s where I think we make the mistake, as owners, of feeling we have to prolong life because we ‘owe’ it to them for the happy times they’ve given us. Really we’re doing it for ourselves, and while that’s wholly understandable (as a pet owner i’ve had to make the choice too many times myself) my biggest regret was a case of a day too late rather than a week too early.