Sorry in advance for a tyre question…

I’ve ridden a huge number of tyres, and am still trying to find the perfect one. Conti Rubber Queen’s in Black Chilli UST 2.2″ variety come pretty close for me, except for their price, but also even the 2.2″ is a bit big for the back end of my full sus bike. They fit, but with only a couple of mm each side it doesn’t leave much mud room.

Anyway… Ideal would be something that grips like a Minion DHF, rolls like a Crossmark, proper UST beads and strong sidewalls yet only 600g in weight, 2.1-2.2″ in width and is under £20… In reality, I accept that is not possible, but what is going to come the closest? I really like a Crossmark on the back of my bike, except for the fact they just don’t give much traction when climbing, they roll fast and corner brilliantly, but have no bite in the soft stuff. The Black Chilli Rubber Queen’s are the mutt’s nuts, but even the 2.2 is slightly bigger than ideal for me. So… Suggestions?

Forget it entirely!

I have Black Chili Rubber Queens on my AM bike and they work very well. My XC bike – A Spesh Camber and my hardtail both have Specialized Storm (F) and Captain (R) in common or garden Control flavour. They’re around 600g each, are 2Bliss ready – ie they’ll happily take sealant and I find that the Storm is a very grippy tyre indeed and it seems to work all year round. The Captain doesn’t like slippery mud or wet chalk, but for nine months of the year is pretty good and fast rolling to boot.

Oh and don’t be tempted by Specialized’s S-Works tyres. They’re very light and seal just as well, but the sidewalls are very weak indeed.

How about taking a razor blade to an old crossmark?

Removing some of the center material or a few slits should provide a few more biting edges.

The new black chilies are a little narrower. On my mavic 717 rims, they measure exactly 2 inches wide. Still quite tall though

Nothing compares in grip and performance to a Rubber Queen for me, I’m happy with the extra weight for the extra grip.

There’s only 2 I can think of suggesting that would be ….

Nobby Nics, the 2.25s are smaller than the 2.2 Rubber Queens, they’re great on anything but wet rock where they tend to slip without much warning.

Mountain King II? the missus is running one on the rear and loves it, I’ve had a razz on the Sultan and the the MK 2 feels very grippy. The Racesport version has held up well through very sharp rocky riding in Skye, Torridon and lots of Highland stuff.

Bontrager XR4? or XR3? I didn’t like them, but loads rave about the XR4s, probably the easier tyre to pop onto a rim tubeless, and required no sealant to stay up.

Forget it entirely!

Why? I’m prepared to compromise, just trying to understand what comes closest to my requirements.

I should probably state, this is for the rear on a full sus bike, and will be replaced with a proper mud tyre when the conditions become terrible again.

How do the new mk2 Conti Mountain Kings rate in 2.2″ Black Chilli Protection flavour? Or even the X King in the same? I love the look of Maxxis AdVantage’s in 2.1″, looks to be a great tyre to me, except that they only seem to be available in 70a (too hard) compound unless you go for the 62a Exception series tyres with the paper thin sidewalls… Same goes for the Maxxis Ikon, which I’ve ridden and rated highly, but silly thin sidewalls only (and mega expensive!).

I’ve got WTB bronson at the moment and really like them.

Nothing compares in grip and performance to a Rubber Queen for me

Agreed, but clearance is very tight on my Maverick even for the 2.2″.

Nobby Nics

Hahaha, if you rate Nobby Nic’s Scott, you’re not riding hard enough! They’re a fast, light, race tyre… Grippy they are not! 😉

Mountain King II

Have heard nothing but good things about this tyre! Have a cheapo wire version on the back of the GF’s hardtail and it seems to be pretty effective, so the Black Chilli version should be awesome, if expensive.

Bontrager XR4? or XR3? I didn’t like them, but loads rave about the XR4s, probably the easier tyre to pop onto a rim tubeless, and required no sealant to stay up.

Light/Fast/Grippy… Pick 2… I’ve ridden XR4’s for a while, but they did not impress me. Found the grip very sub par, and aside from that, they were HUGE for a 2.2″ tyre!

You mention a lot of factors and compromise…which one first?

I love the look of Maxxis AdVantage’s in 2.1″, looks to be a great tyre to me, except that they only seem to be available in 70a (too hard) compound unless you go for the 62a Exception series tyres with the paper thin sidewalls…

The folding (not eXCeption) Avantages are 60a, the wired is 70a.

You mention a lot of factors and compromise…which one first?

Good question.

First… Weight. Would love sub 600g, but in reality as long as it’s under 900g, for the purposes I want to use it for, that will do…

Second… Rolling resistance. Would love super fast like a Crossmark, but will accept slightly slower as long as it delivers elsewhere. Still needs to be pretty quick though, certainly not a super tacky high roller for sure!

Third… Price. I’d love it to be cheap of course, but if it’s a £50 tyre, so be it… If it’s that good, I’ll beg/steal/borrow/blag to get it at a good price.

What I won’t compromise on though is the size (got to be smaller than a 2.2″ Rubber Queen, though not by much preferably), and also grip… I’ve got fed up of riding tyres that either grip in the corners, but not under braking or when putting the power down, or that are fine in a straight line but useless when leant over. I use the Minion DHF as a benchmark with that in mind, cos it just grips everywhere (pretty much).

Not sure I am any clearer! You want something gripper, which will require more weight – but heavy and fast rolling do not go hand in hand!

I run an advantage as a rear tyre. Does the job in everything apart from slop.

How about “Moon on a stick” 🙂

Ive tired different tyres, recently sold my Nobby Nicks after about three rides – they scared me, light but no grip. Went back to HighRoller + Minions.

Compromised on the weight and went for confidence inspiring grip and feel.

Ive discovered that having confidence in your tyres is way more important than anything else.

I’m finding the Rocket Ron TLR snakeskin version really very good. Only in a 2.25 at present but light enough, fast, grippy & seemingly tough – not what you’d call cheap though (albeit much more affordable in Germay).

Specialized Purgatory 2.2 2Bliss.

You don’t need bucketloads of grip on the back.

Ive run a Purgatory at the front, but if you really push your bike into corners it will let go before a Minion will.

Lack of grip at the back is quite good fun however 🙂

I have the 2.25 Nobby Nic Gatestar compound on the front of my bike, fabulous……. they do wear quite fast, I have a proper UST Pacestar one on the rear which is less sticky but I quite like that. That said the standard compounds are awful in comparison.

Have you tried a Larson on the back? I run them on the back of both bikes in 2.35 maxxpro. They seem to do everything pretty well. They are even surprisingly good in the mud.

Shoot me now,but when I see these threads I often think,why not alter your riding to suit the conditions ,rather than yearn for ‘moon on a stick’ solutions.

Disclaimer > I do know you have a fair bit of riding experience mboy 😉 <
disclaimer

How do the new mk2 Conti Mountain Kings rate in 2.2″ Black Chilli Protection flavour

No UST with black chilli though. I’m looking for a replacement for my (split) RQ UST BC 2.2. Running the 2.4 RQ up front.

I also run an Advantage on the back with a HR up front, I think it’s the folding 60a version. never had any issues* fast rolling and gripy enough for the back, I like a little bit of slide.

*Apart from the immense lack of grip when it was on the front, it really didn’t like wet, or even moist for that matter!

I also run an Advantage on the back with a HR up front, I think it’s the folding 60a version. never had any issues* fast rolling and gripy enough for the back, I like a little bit of slide.

*Apart from the immense lack of grip when it was on the front, it really didn’t like wet, or even moist for that matter!

I like the Advantage on the front, but it is definitely a bit more drifty that a minion or high roller and not as good in the wet.

2.5 Muddy Mary on the front. You don’t need a rear tyre. Light and tough. I ran it with 14psi with a tube in for a while without realising.

Not sure I am any clearer! You want something gripper, which will require more weight – but heavy and fast rolling do not go hand in hand!

Really? Maxxis do a Dual Ply High Roller Semi Slick, which I can assure you is not light, but it’s also seriously quick! Tread pattern has more to do with how fast a tyre is than weight.

How about “Moon on a stick”

Ive tired different tyres, recently sold my Nobby Nicks after about three rides – they scared me, light but no grip. Went back to HighRoller + Minions.

Haha, I don’t think it’s moon on a stick, but I know I’m asking a lot. Nobby Nic’s are fine for XC pootling, or racing on, but they’re simply not up to standard grip wise. They just let go way too soon in every way I find. Running a 2.35 Minion DHF on the bike at the moment, and that’s staying, just looking for a suitable rear tyre that’s at least a reasonable amount quicker without sacrificing too much grip.

I’m finding the Rocket Ron TLR snakeskin version really very good.

Without wishing to sound rude, I think if you find a Rocket Ron a grippy tyre, we’ve probably got very different goals.

Specialized Purgatory 2.2 2Bliss.

Will investigate further. Looks like it could be ok, just a bit flimsy from what I hear.

I have the 2.25 Nobby Nic Gatestar compound on the front of my bike, fabulous……. they do wear quite fast, I have a proper UST Pacestar one on the rear which is less sticky but I quite like that. That said the standard compounds are awful in comparison.

Have tried a UST Pacestar, and found it lacking. And they wear quickly enough anyway, the Gatestar would be a waste IMO.

Shoot me now,but when I see these threads I often think,why not alter your riding to suit the conditions ,rather than yearn for ‘moon on a stick’ solutions.

Hahaha. You’re assuming I don’t already? 😉

Disclaimer > I do know you have a fair bit of riding experience mboy <
disclaimer

Lots of experience of doing it badly I suspect!

Seriously though, I’m far from a pro rider, but I know how to alter my riding to suit conditions. I’m not looking for a perfect solution, more of a Jack of as many trades as possible solution, if that makes sense…

I like the Advantage on the front, but it is definitely a bit more drifty that a minion or high roller and not as good in the wet.

Tempted to try a 2.1″ 60a on the back if I can get it to seal tubeless ok. Or maybe they do a LUST version in that size? I don’t mind it to be a bit more drifty than a Minion, and not as good in the wet, as long as it’s not too much worse.

2.5 Muddy Mary on the front. You don’t need a rear tyre. Light and tough. I ran it with 14psi with a tube in for a while without realising.

You clearly read my original post then! 😕

I’ll try again. Larson TT 2.35 maxxpro, seems to fit everything but tubeless.

I’ll try again. Larson TT 2.35 maxxpro, seems to fit everything but tubeless.

Sorry glossed over that one.

Larsen is no good for a lot of the trails I ride, too tightly packed tread not so good on softer terrain. Nice and quick, and plenty of grip on firm terrain, but not so good in the softer stuff.

Doesn’t sound rude at all. I like a fast rolling, predictable tyre that keeps me upright which the Ron does on my regular trails & beyond. They can, like most Schwalbe tyres, be very sensitive to pressures but they’ve not let me down in the year or so I’ve been running them.

I’ll reiterate my preferred option for you:-)

Conti mountain king II 2.2 protection, 590g, fast, grippy. Not as grippy as a rubber queen, or as voluminous, but very close.

Forget the xking if you want grip, it breaks away fast under a lot of lean, plus i totally destroyed one by ripping the knobs off recently.

Totally agree about the Schwalbe tyres in the pace star compound too, skittish when ridden hard.

Ardent 2.25 EXO and ride better 🙂

Love how often people list Ardents or Rocket Rons or other basically semi-slicks as a grippy tyre…obviously never tried something like a rubber queen or hans dampf or minions.

If your happy with Rocket Rons or Ardents great but someone looking for something like a Rubber Queen is only going to find them a dissappointment on anything but a fire road.

I found the Conti mountain king on my Genesis dreadful for grip, even in relatively dry conditions. This coming from Maxxis Ignitor. Will be stealing my son’s Rocket Ron’s to see if there is any improvement 😉

Tyre choice has as much to do with type of trail as it does tread patterns & riding styles. If you’re riding fireroad or hardpack trail centre trails, particularly in hard conditions, without much loose material, then less aggressively treaded, rounded profile tyres can actually be faster. Big aggressive knobs with nothing to dig into will squirm & skate, whereas smaller knobbles with a lower profile will find more grip.
As the OP rides what appears to be loamy conditions, then aggressive side knobs will play an important role.
Having said that, personal preferences play a big part. Some people don’t mind a drifty set up, others want it totally hooked up at all times. Personally, I don’t like the HR on the front, as it loses grip as you lean in, not so great on fast swoopy singletrack. I’d rather have a more progressive tyre, even if that means it is a bit more drifty as you push hard. I can also live with the rear tyre drifting about & currently running an Aspen 2.25 rear.
I draw the line with the Crossmark in loose wet conditions. Sideways, a lot, unpredictable sliding, until you realise that every corner will result in a slide, usually big & requiring you to stand the bike up & straighten it out to recover grip. The first few slides were fun, but every corner of a 3 hour singletrack corner-fest?

Love how often people list Ardents or Rocket Rons or other basically semi-slicks as a grippy tyre…obviously never tried something like a rubber queen or hans dampf or minions.

Ridden minions, HR’s HR2’s, Swamp Things & Wet Screams….
Ardent are a good rolling grippy tyre if you can handle it, it’s not a minion but it does roll well and grips fairly well.
[video]http://vimeo.com/64981380[/video]
Ardent action the crashes were nothing to do with the tyre 🙂

Same goes for the Maxxis Ikon, which I’ve ridden and rated highly, but silly thin sidewalls only (and mega expensive!).

There’s a stupidly expensive EXO version of the Ikon I think. I run an 2.25 Ardent Exo out back all year round mostly and it works for me.. It’s hardly a semi-slick. I wouldn’t run one up front except in anything other than dry conditions, but its fine on the back from dry through to soft but not muddy ime.

The older 2.2 version of the Bontrager XR4 came up around 2.35 size and was/is a good all-round call for me anyway though not the toughest sidewalls ever.

Actually, I have no idea. HTH 🙂

Love how often people list Ardents or Rocket Rons or other basically semi-slicks as a grippy tyre…obviously never tried something like a rubber queen or hans dampf or minions.

One mans ‘grippy’ is another mans ‘draggy’.

Have ridden Rons & Crossmarks in the Peaks, Dales, Wales, Alps & the chalk & flint of the South Downs without any issues other than one trashed sidewall on a standard TL Ron & I’m a long way from being a skilled rider.

You clearly read my original post then!

I guess I just never saw the need for non-over the top front tyre unless I’m racing XC or stravaing a trail centre.

I’d also recommend the xr4, both in its old and new guises. It’ll slip out if you push it but it’s a good all rounder. I run one on the back and it seems to do fine and sin’t too susceptible to punctures either.

You can get 2.35 muddy marys too IIRC, and they’re are amazingly grippy and not too heavy and roll a lot better than they should. I’ve never tried decent contis but the only one that interests me is the Baron. Rubber queen’s side knobs look a little dainty for something that heavy. Hans Damf is an obvious choice too. I really liked the fat Albert and use RoRo and RaRa no my XC Bike and on the rear of the rad bike in summer, I like Schwalbes.

The older 2.2 version of the Bontrager XR4 came up around 2.35 size and was/is a good all-round call for me anyway though not the toughest sidewalls ever.

I’d also recommend the xr4, both in its old and new guises. It’ll slip out if you push it but it’s a good all rounder. I run one on the back and it seems to do fine and sin’t too susceptible to punctures either.

I tore the sidewall on one yesterday, JRA in the Peak. Made of tissue paper… but it was fine until then. 😐

I don’t like the HR on the front, as it loses grip as you lean in,

Never had a problem with this but my riding style lends itself to tipping the bike over hard into corners.

On the chicksands dual I’ve never had so much lean angle that I thought I was on a superbike as I have had with a High Roller. One time clearly sticks in my mind to this day where my knee brushed the ground and the front end started to drift but then gripped instantly as soon as I pushed the bike back up a bit.

Imo classic tyres that I’ve used for so many years that I’ve just come to know them perfectly.