Does my marathon training plan make sense?

can’t say I’ve ever heard that before

Me neither. I find long runs at an easy pace at the weekend, and hard interval sessions during the week are what work for me. As you get fitter the easy pace naturally picks up.

The term “speed” is a bit misleading. What I am saying is that if you are capable of say running 10 miles in 50 mins (5 min per mile) then your sunday run of say 15 miles should not be run much slower than say 6 minute miles. If you are running them at say 8 minute miles then you really are wasting your time.
If you run 10 miles in 80 mins then running your longest run at say 9:30 mins per mile is probably about right.
All things are relative.

I just struggle to see how a 15m slow run is any better than adding 15m or so to one of your other runs.

it’s all about adaptation…The Lore of Running is your go-to source on this subject

If you are running them at say 8 minute miles then you really are wasting your time

again, I’ve not heard this before…do you have a source?

Long runs are intended to stress you in a different way. Its not optimal to run 60 miles per week, all in one run!
As I said “slow” is a relative term but you should finish your long run feeling tired and needing recovery, just as you would feel after an interval session/hill session/race etc.

I don’t disagree with that, and I think what you are saying is correct if the goal is a “fast” time, but if the aim is to get round (especially on a 3.5 month training plan), then I would think doing the long slow run really slow is less likely to be harmful than trying to keep to a pace say 1min/mile slower than target pace.

I would go and get the Lore of Running out and quote from that, but it’s too heavy 🙂

again, I’ve not heard this before…do you have a source?

The numbers I am quoting are not written in stone. The point I made was that they need to be taxing and should not be “easy” they are a component of a training plan so have to have a training benefit (nothing wrong with going out for a very slow jog for fun but thats not what I am talking about)
There is not one source as these things are not written in stone there is agreement that training improves performance but a million variations on that theme.
Here is one article that discusses the importance of training within certain speed parameters. The point being that if you are training for performance you need to have some pace/effort “parameters in mind.

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_dc02.html

If you read Tim Noakes on this subject you will see the same thing (its pretty obvious really) that training and pace need to be “structured” I look forward to reading his quotes.

The point being that if you are training for performance you need to have some pace/effort “parameters in mind.

might be wrong (and happy for OP to correct me if it’s the case) but I don’t think the OP is training for performance, but looking to complete.

I understand that but the argument stands. Pacing is important for runners intending to finish. Every training plan has to be “considered” and logical otherwise it is not a “plan”

Every training plan has to be “considered” and logical otherwise it is not a “plan”

That deserves a sticky all of its own.

I don’t think the OP is training for performance, but looking to complete.

I am aiming to run a good time, not just get around but I am realistic about what a good time looks like to someone that is only running 3.5 miles tops right now and the furthest I have ever run is a half marathon.

Put it this way, I don’t expect to run <4hrs (however if my training goes well, I know I am capable of doing that) but I don’t want to be walking at any point.

(Without quoting quotes in quotes)

Ref: 1 long, 1 interval , 1 x tempo.

They are all relevant, no junk and mean you should always have a clear recovery before the next run. The long run is ‘hard’ because it is tiring and challenging your aerobic system to run for 60-120 mins. the intervals (which as a total run might be over in 30mins) are hard because you are flat out for 30sec-2mins then recovering and the tempo run is hard because you are running on your LTHR(ish) pace for 40-60 mins.

NONE of these should leave you feeling ‘broken’ and they mean all the time on your feet is relevant, the long run should be close to your marathon pace not just plodding along. This plan worked well for me, partly as I have had problems in the past with shins (stress fractures etc.) and since then have avoided running on successive days. for what it is worth used this plan and met my target in VLM by doing every run at the prescribed pace/distance and I was on the low end of distance covered (approx. 560km over 16 weeks from beginning of jan to the race). I rode on the days between to aid recovery and because i could ‘only’ run on these days it meant I was excited to do every session and they all had to count, no plodding round for an hour at marathon pace +1min/km just to get distance in.

I am very aware everyone is different but this plan seems to have enough success stories to say it is worth it for people who can’t commit to a more traditional high milage, multi day plan.

of course, this is all my n=1 and YMMV!

the long run should be close to your marathon pace not just plodding along.

I don’t think I have ever done ‘just plodding along’ – it would drive me up the wall.

So I have just done a spreadsheet (WIP) and it has me at (by week thirteen when I will begin tapering)

Mon 3 mile recovery
Wed 10 mile hard
Fri 4 mile medium
Sun 22 race pace

Perhaps I need to up the Wed/Fri distances a little?

Interesting thread with lots of resources! Re avoiding injury / plodding I have found doing ~1 hour run with a focus entirely on ease, lightness, quietness of foot strike to be a good idea. ‘Plodding’ suggests clumping along as if you would rather be somewhere else – very injury inducing I expect. For reference a ‘light/easy’ run for me is around 6min/km, race pace is 4min/km for 10k.
Another resource for intervals

As most have said I’d try and up the mid week mileage a bit quicker. Maybe do a steady Parkrun on Saturday with a run there and a warm up taking you up to somewhere around 5miles?

10 miles maximum is fine for Wednesday. Friday I would aim to do a bit more (maybe 6 miles) with some mile repeats, hills, or at least some strides in there.

I wouldn’t do the 22miles @ race pace 3 weeks out, that will likely be one of your hardest weeks and putting in a run that hard could be a disaster at that stage, I would try and do race pace running as part of your Wednesday run once up to 8+ miles.

Most important thing to bear in mind though is you’re better being at the start injury free and under-trained than injured and watching it on the telly.

Edit: Start doing some strength work too, calf raises, glute bridges, pistol squats, lunges etc.

@irinslist – Saturday mornings have been earmarked for core training (been on that since early December) 🙂

Well I went out to do my first ‘marathon pace’ distance run on Sunday morning. Twas quite a relaxing way to start the day (as it was the shortest ‘long’ run at the beginning of my schedule).

Got up earlier than normal, had some breakfast and put a chicken on in the slow cooker ready for dinner.

Was on the road for 9am and did 4.7 miles at a steady pace of 9:06 with 275ft of climbing (blasted hilly place where I live) and legs feel pretty fresh this morning.

🙂

This is making my aim of 10:15 miles look rather pathetic. I was quite pleased with my new 28:30 park run PB time this weekend until now!

Still, when I get round this half marathon in March, I’ll still be happy.

Rachel

The weak link in any sport when you first start out is tendons and connective tissue, muscles get hench pretty quick leaving joints at risk of injury.
I would do the gym work first, get 6 weeks of squats, ass to grass, lunges, calf raises and core work under ones belt.[Other exercises also available]
Run on your toes, don’t jog, the faster your travelling forward the less strain on the knees.

This is making my aim of 10:15 miles look rather pathetic.

The problem for me is that al the people I follow on Strava (fellow mums and dads at my girls’ school) all run 8 minute miles so I feel crap against them – but as my wife says, it isn’t a competition against someone else, it’s a case of achieving your own goal 😉

ha ha – I know what you mean – this should help a lot!! https://www.strava.com/athletes/7844170

😀

Requested – and the best of luck with your training and race 🙂

Ha – you see Rachel – my location is so bloody hilly (your stats first):

Distance
9.6 mi 9.4 mi

Time
1h 36m 1h 25m

Elev Gain
36 ft 548 ft

Runs
2 3

Yeah – it’s a problem around here 🙂

It’s better when it’s hilly, more fun. Flat is dull 🙂

I agree, but hills kill knees.

If you’re trying to get fit and get round then don’t stress over your speed. There will always be plenty of people quicker and plenty slower!

The slow running thing is real, trust me as I’m suffering now.
I’ve been for a few longish runs (12-20 miles) with the wife over Christmas/New Year. She’s training for an ultra and generally runs slower than me. So I’ve been going a fair bit slower than I would normally and I’ve picked up a knee strain (probably ITBS) as a result. I think the crux is that running much slower than you normally would alters your gait and style, which introduces movement that you aren’t normally used to doing, and can then lead to injury. The last week I’ve been concentrating on maintaining form and it seems to be working but if I lapse I can feel the knee.

To the OP…

Don’t do your long runs at marathon pace! They should be a good 30 to 60 seconds a mile slower! Otherwise you’ll leave your race in training.

Going back to your distances a couple of posts ago, you mention 10 miles on Wednesday hard, and 4 medium on Friday. I’d swap them round. The longish run on a Wednesday is aerobic work, the Friday should be threshold/tempo work to improve speed. Monday or Tuesday is a leg stretcher to get Sunday out of the legs.

The problem is that I don’t have the time on a Friday but I do on a Wednesday :-/

TBH, I don’t know what my marathon pace will be like as I have never done one. All I know is that when I did a half, I trained to a point where I reached my optimal mile speed (8 minutes) and ran laps of either 4, 8 or 12 miles of my favourite run then did the GNR in 1hr 45mins.

I don’t expect to translate that 8 minute mile pace into a full marathon though for two reasons – 1, I haven’t been training for as long and 2, I am some 13 or 14 years older.

You can roughly estimate a plausible marathon time if you do a shorter race – there are lots of calculators on the web based around something called the Riegel formula. However they are generally too optimistic (especially for slower/casual runners) on converting a half to full marathon.

Its difficult to calculate. The rule of double and add 10 minutes seems about right if you are running under 70 mins for a half but the faster lads can double and add a couple of minutes or so. It depends on how your body handles the stress over 2+ hrs. Its difficult to train for. I ran the London in 96 and stated with some mates who just wanted to break 3hrs. I left them after about 15 miles and felt like I was flying in the last 10 overtaking people like mad. I actually won a 3k on the track on the Tuesday evening two days after!

A friend of mine who had ran 62 mins for a half and trained hard for London only ran 2:17. We all expected him to run around 2:10 but you really cant predict how your body will handle the time and distance. He ran a couple of others around the same time or slower but went back to shorter distances.

62 for a half – Christ on a bike – the European record is only 59:32 by Mo Farah – the first UK athlete to break 60 minutes!

62:45 to be exact, 50th on the UK all time list at the moment. Strangely enough he ran the same time exactly in anotheer HM abroad. 46:25 for 10m although there was a question mark over the course. Had to settle for official 47:02.
Anyway I used to hold his coat 😀

Time on your feet.
Try and get a few 20 mile long runs in but no more.
Practice with what fuel you’ll be using in the race.
Hill repeats and speed work is beneficial later in the schedule.
On the day take it steady for the first 20 or so miles. Don’t race or try and keep up with anyone. It should be easy compared to the training effort you’ve put in given the crowds, fellow runners and adrenaline. Good luck and enjoy.

Thank you Mr Sheen. Hopefully the torture of dark, wet, cold and windy night runs will pay off come April.

However – just how many do you mean by ‘a few’ 20 mile runs in? At the moment I have planned to do:
One 16 mile, one 18 mile and two 20 mile runs as my longest runs – and in those weeks I am also doing one 8 mile, one 10 mile and two 12 mile runs respectively as my shorter ‘long’ run of the week. I am currently building my distance up – doing 4 miles tonight and 6 on Sunday.

Cheers 🙂

However – just how many do you mean by ‘a few’ 20 mile runs in?

I’m not Mr Sheen, but I always try and do five.