Does my marathon training plan make sense?

I have looked at a few plans online but I am struggling to find one that really works with my lifestyle/work/childcare commitments so I have devised this simple plan for my London Marathon training schedule:

Mon – Short run in evening (starting at 1.5 miles)
Tues – Rest
Wed – Medium run in evening (starting at 3.5 miles)
Thurs – Rest
Fri – Short run in morning (starting at 1.5 miles)
Sat – Core fitness/light spin session in gym
Sun – Long run (starting at 5 miles)

Over time I will increase the short runs to about 3 miles max, the medium to 6 miles max, then use Sundays to focus on getting much longer runs in (slowly increasing to about 18/20 miles) and if I am feeling any side effects/niggles I may substitute some short runs with light core/gym sessions.

Any thoughts/feedback greatly appreciated.

Seem perfectly reasonable to me, but you also need to think about your pace or effort level on each run. I’m also assuming it’s a ‘get you round’ plan rather than aiming for a time.

I’d do:

Monday – easy pace, completely able to hold a conversation, never out of breath
Wednesday – slightly harder pace, able to hold a halting conversation, slightly out of breath but not on your arse.
Friday – hard pace. Out of breath.
Sunday – same as Monday.

And increase the overall distance each week by 10%, but reduce by 10% every 4th or 5th week.

My Marathon training schedule:

Mon – Fun size in evening
Tues – Rest
Wed – Standard size in evening with coffee
Thurs – Rest
Fri – 3 or 4 tiny ones out of a box of Celebrations in morning
Sat – Light Mars / Milky Way session in cafe
Sun – King size

but you also need to think about your pace or effort level on each run.

Sorry, yes I will be focussing on pace too (didn’t bother putting that detail in sorry). Yes, Monday will be a slow recovery run after the Sunday long run and the Friday run focusses on more speed. I am also trying to plan runs that give me more hill training on the shorter runs and flatter on the longer runs. (although this is difficult as I live on the top of a hill so I inevitably have to run down and back up gradients of some kind.

This is my first week on keeping to a schedule (I have done some light training up to and over Christmas) – on Monday I did a 1.5 mile run at 8.15 pace and felt great then a 3.2 mile run last night and my legs hurt – only managing a 9.16 pace (but I wasn’t really trying to push too hard given the fast run on MOnday).

Well you’ve not given us too much detail, but as a basic outline it looks sound.

Few points to note:
1) You’ve left it a bit tight for time allowing a ramp up from 5mi->20mi then a taper. Possible, but listen to your body and don’t overdo it – especially not in the last 3 weeks.
2) Focus on duration rather than miles for the midweek runs
3) Assume Friday will be a speed session?
4) I wouldn’t do a spin session the day before your long run

Edit: Ah, I got ninja’d!

The spin session will be very light – I would be doing my core exercises but might just do 30 minutes of slow spinning (I normally do intensive 1 hour spin sessions but I am dropping those until after the marathon 🙂

How much of a runner are you already? are you going to train with an HRM?

as a guide, my average run for marathon training is about the 10 mile mark rather than 6 but at a very easy pace, a couple of sprint sessions, don’t bother with going to the gym.

you may find the Monday recovery run would be better as a rest day once you get up to long Sunday runs…or at least a very very slow recovery run for 15-20 mins

I am not a runner at all, just stubborn and determined. Perhaps you are right, I should be focusing on getting the short and mid runs a bit up in distance.

I have a Fitbit Blaze so it tracks my heart rate but I know it isn’t as accurate as a dedicated HRM.

btw have you looked at Hal Higdon’s training plans online? Lot’s of levels, from novice to advanced, and reflecting how many days you can realistically train. I used them for all my marathon training and got to a sub 3:15 marathon using them

Have you ever raced before? Reason I ask is that lots of people turn up to marathons never having run “competitively” with other people. There HR goes up along with the adrenaline and often leads to stomach cramps etc because they are not used to it. All the training goes out of the window!
Best advice is to find a park run (5k) or a national trust 10k event near you so you can get used to running with other people.

also plan in one half marathon into your training…it’ll help you learn how to not run too fast (which is a very easy mistake to make in the excitement of racing)

Have you ever raced before?

Yes – I have done the GNR, Leeds Abbey Dash and a few smaller ones around Harrogate.

If you’re not a “runner” could I suggest that you concentrate on getting yourself used to running longer distances, try to keep you HR down (it needn’t be accurately measured, just consistent), but aim for 10-12 miles as an average run, and start to plan for at least a 15+ at the weekend sooner rather than later.

the quicker you’re up to distance the better, don’t bother with gym or speed sessions, just aim to be happy, relaxed and steady on a long distance.

So what would a sensible HR be?

Depends what your LTHR test tells you.
We could pick numbers for you, but they’ll all be meaningless guesses.

good article here, there are loads on line

4 runs a week is enough to get round and to get round quickly depending on your current fintess.

I would strognle recomend NOT doing them all at ‘marathon pace’, yes your long run should be at a pace you want to hold on the day (or a little quicker) but mix the other runs up with intervals.

I am a big fan of the runners world three runs a week plan, it is essentially 1 long, 1 tempo and 1 interval. With the long run at marathon pace(ish) the tempo run quicker (i.e. u pto 1 hour falt out) and the intervals being based on hills or sprint reps.

With fewer runs scheduled they all have to count and it give you time to recover from each one.

Check out Here and here. It has some good advice on selecting the right paces for your runs to be at and has worked well for me int he past.

I’ve used the FIRST training programme, 16 weeks, 3 times per week, proviso is you can run 10 miles OK at the start.

I am a big fan of the runners world three runs a week plan, it is essentially 1 long, 1 tempo and 1 interval. With the long run at marathon pace(ish) the tempo run quicker (i.e. u pto 1 hour falt out) and the intervals being based on hills or sprint reps.

3 hard runs per week, isn’t that a recipe for disaster, particularly for someone wihtout an established base?

YMMV but that would have me injured by week 3.

I’d say run every day. Replace “Rest” days with a 15 minute gentle run. This helps your body adapt to running. Running efficiently is mostly about the connection between your brain and your muscles and frequent running will aid this.

I’d also echo above advice about duration rather than distance. Try and get a 15 minute lunch run in most days would save a lot of time?

Check this out: http://www.samiinkinen.com/post/86569183902/hacking-your-run-10-faster-in-four-weeks

I live by this for any of my training. Its very time efficient.

Cheers Teacake – I may start adding in further short runs (such as lunch runs and run to/from work etc if I feel my almost 50 year old body is up to it after a few weeks. Cheers 🙂

mossimus – Member
3 hard runs per week, isn’t that a recipe for disaster, particularly for someone wihtout an established base?

YMMV but that would have me injured by week 3.

‘Hard’ is relative.

‘Hard’ for me in 2014 was 6min/mile.
‘Hard’ for me now with an extra 2 stone and an injury is 10min/mile.

As long as you train to either heart rate or perceived effort, rather than pace as a beginner, you’ll be fine.

At my peak, I was running 8 minute miles (but this was 14 years ago) over 12 miles and managed to avoid enough people walking rather than running to do the GNR in 1hr 45mins so I will be aiming to get to that pace again over 4 miles in the short term (currently comfortable at 8:15 on short runs but starting to slow to >9:15 over 3 miles, but early days)….

3 hard runs per week, isn’t that a recipe for disaster, particularly for someone wihtout an established base?

YMMV but that would have me injured by week 3.

I’d say run every day. Replace “Rest” days with a 15 minute gentle run. This helps your body adapt to running. Running efficiently is mostly about the connection between your brain and your muscles and frequent running will aid this.

What studies are there to back this up? I.e. if time pressed, there’s a significant advantage to the extra tiny amount of easy running?

The FIRST programme has AFAIK studied a lot of runners following it and these issues have not arisen – and certainly not for me.

Hard’ is relative.

‘Hard’ for me in 2014 was 6min/mile.
‘Hard’ for me now with an extra 2 stone and an injury is 10min/mile.

As long as you train to either heart rate or perceived effort, rather than pace as a beginner, you’ll be fine.

The poster was suggesting 1 long, 1 tempo and 1 interval session. Surely in this context they are all hard sessions?

Assuming you are starting the long runs this Sunday, you have 12 or 13 long runs to hit peak distance. I’d guess you’d want to aim for peaking at 23 miles. So you could increment 1.5 miles per week.

Personally, I’d ditch the Monday run altogether. If you want to do something there – maybe try a yoga or pilates class?

Every couple of weeks, consider some non-running cardio (cycling or swimming) to replace one of the midweek runs. This may help with injury prevention.

If you haven’t got a decent pair of running shoes, or yours are old, get a new pair now – not 2 weeks before the marathon. I find good compression socks also help on some of my runs if my calfs are still achy.

Surely in this context they are all hard sessions?

Long runs shouldn’t be hard sessions, they should be very easy.

When I was looking for training plans when I did a marathon a couple of years ago they all looked incredibly onerous so like Al, I followed the FIRST plan.

3 times a week and every run had purpose. I started straight after a 4 month injury lay off and didnt die so it must be fine 😉

I asked my colleague to have a look, this is his response, he is a 2h 31m marathon runner:

Difficult subject for me to cover with regards to run duration as despite being a qualified coach I have to admit to being more focused and tuned into my own training. That said, the overall mileage of midweek runs does seem low… the plan appears to ‘peak’ with a week of 2x 3mile runs, 1x 6mile run, 1x20mi run, so >60% of the mileage is completed in the long run alone.

For me, I would expect to see the 3mi runs up around the 6mi mark, (ramping up a lot quicker than the Sunday long run), and the ‘medium’ run building to 10mi+ (rather than 6mi)

I would forget trying to train by HRM – a blunt/brash statement admittedly but so many variables to consider its not (IMO) worth the investment in time to understand and plan it all, given your goal and timescale.

I would also forget doing any speedwork/intervals for this level of athlete – the marathon for this guy will be purely a test of endurance and stamina and thus his focus should be entirely on building his aerobic capacity – speedwork and improving his anaerobic system will have little benefit on his marathon performance… he would benefit a lot more aerobically from a 30min steady run than 30mins of intervals/rest

If time allows, a rest day after the long run day would be beneficial, e.g.
M – Rest
T – Short
W- Med
T – Rest
F – Short
S – Light Core/spin
S – Long

could easily be hours of discussion, but a few thoughts anyhow…

@ Cynic-al I’m not aware of any large studies on what I’m suggesting but in true STW fashion, it works for me and if you are short for time I’d argue it’s the best way to adapt your body for running. By the sounds of it that’s what the OP needs, a body adapted to handle the distance rather than be able to run fast.

The biggest challenge for the OP is getting to the start line without an injury. Two long runs a week (as an example) is more likely to provide an injury than 7 shorter ones, since most injuries happen when we tire and start running with sloppy technique.

Anyway, who says you need a massive detailed study to say it will benefit if you try it and it is better than what you were doing before? It works for me and Formula 1 teams! “it’s faster but we don’t have time to understand why”

Leeds Abbey Dash

Did my 10k pb there over 20yrs ago 🙂

I agree mostly with Votchy.

Dont bother with a HRM, just a distraction and it will likely end up in the bottom drawer after a few runs.
Yes too much focus on the long Sunday run. Sunday runs are almost always run too slowly. It doesnt seem right to do around 60% of your mileage in one run.
Intervals are the single most beneficial type of training you can do but I agree its not worth trying to build them in now. It takes a long time to adapt to them and you dont really have long enough.

they should be very easy

They shouldnt. There really is no such thing as “easy” each run should have a purpose and although the term is used often by serious runners it is “relative” All runs should be within a reasonable % of your goal race pace. If they are too slow you should probably stay in bed to avoid injury and save you energy for a run that is going to “add” to your fitness. Runs should vary in effort but the concept of “long slow distance” has been misused over recent years. Your long run should be challenging and one of your hardest weekly (10 day cycle) training sessions.

Most of the above seems reasonable advice. I’d suggest you ramp up the long run more than 10% per week in the early stages, 2 miles at a time might be a better guide – especially since you’re already at 5 and have some decent running experience. And more miles in the other runs would be better too, so long as you don’t ramp it up too quickly.

In contradiction to what most have said, some advise making the long run a hard session – not flat out, but with some harder periods embedded. A hilly route will naturally encourage that. I typically do 2 tough sessions per week (including the long run), the rest is easy running/cycling/swimming.

Cycling on the “rest days” would give your joints a break, but if you’re pushed for time, 3-4 runs per week should see you round.

I would say Votchy’s colleague has it nailed

Sunday runs are almost always run too slowly

disagree with this..if the aim is to finish the Sunday run almost can’t be too slow!
if the aim is a good time, do a medium length run at expected marathon pace on another day. I used to do a run up to 10-12 miles on Saturday at marathon pace, then the Sunday was a long slow run where the pace didn’t matter as long as it was slow. worked for me!

Sunday run almost can’t be too slow!

It adds no benefit if it is too slow (depending on what the athlete is capable of) but burns energy and increases the risk of injury. At too slow a pace it only adds risk and no fitness benefit.

Many thanks for all the sound advice so far – I agree that perhaps my midweek runs are focussed on peaking at too short a run and I need to look at that. The Wednesday longer run I should easily be able to add to it as I finish work early so could easily run 10/12 milers with the time I have.

Good luck Johndo, as someone above said, just aim to avoid injury and get to the startline. 90% of success is turning up!

It adds no benefit if it is too slow (depending on what the athlete is capable of) but burns energy and increases the risk of injury. At too slow a pace it only adds risk and no fitness benefit

can’t say I’ve ever heard that before

votchy – Member
I asked my colleague to have a look, this is his response, he is a 2h 31m marathon runner:

…

I would also forget doing any speedwork/intervals for this level of athlete – the marathon for this guy will be purely a test of endurance and stamina and thus his focus should be entirely on building his aerobic capacity – speedwork and improving his anaerobic system will have little benefit on his marathon performance… he would benefit a lot more aerobically from a 30min steady run than 30mins of intervals/rest

I agree with the vast majority of your fast friend but not this bit. Speedwork isn’t about anaerobic work – running faster enhances running economy (technique), cadence and endurance (see Jack for more info – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Daniels_(coach))

I’d suggest a weekly long run, a weekly faster run (build up from 20mins to 60mins at a ‘comfortably hard’ pace (maybe start with Parkruns?) and as many easy runs as you can do without injuring yourself!