Seems a bit mental people losing jobs and stuff without any allegations being proven?

I’m not defending anyone here at all, if found guilty through the book at them. Just seems that trial by media isn’t exactly proper justice. Seems a bit harsh to apply punishment(losing a job and public humiliation is punishment) before a verdict is given.

Or it suggests there is some substance there are they’re getting out before anything else gets into the public domain.

I don’t think a suggestion means guilty either.

If some are found innocent, do we just say oops, sorry, the mob needed satisfying.

Are we talking about Jimmy Saville again?

Having spent the last week on Jury service on a rape case, definately No!!

Just talking about the idea in general, can apply to anything. This thread is prompted by the current scandal, but I’ve often thought it’s a bit mental you can basically say anything about anyone if you put the word allegedly in front of it.

seosamh77 – Member

but I’ve often thought it’s a bit mental you can basically say anything about anyone if you put the word allegedly in front of it.

I agree but consider for a second that someone came along and accused Mary Berry of being a serial abuser. That she had a Weinstein-esque conveyor belt of young aspiring bakers coming to her office and performing sexual favours in exchange for culinary kudos. …..I just don’t think that accusation’s got much credibility.

What we’re seeing at the minute is that people who are inside traditional media power structures (or political ones) being outed using social media.

Yeah, I can understand the need to breakdown some unbreakable barriers and the need for unconventional methods to do that. fair point there.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that it’s incredibly dangerous too. I just think that regarding Weinstein particularly, that was the only way to do it. Spacey seems like it’s going to be a similar story.

When it becomes fuzzy, and potentially lethal is when MPs and politicians in general start resigning over allegations that might surface, which might be innocuous.

Worst case scenario – you have someone incredibly competent who is an expert in their field resigning from a role of national importance because they put their hand on someone’s knee in 1984 or they’re secretly gay.

Worst case scenario – you have someone incredibly competent who is an expert in their field resigning from a role of national importance because they put their hand on someone’s knee in 1984 or they’re secretly gay.

Has happened, can’t remember specifics though.

No
However, the traditional methods of reporting sexual harrassment and rape etc haven’t worked well for a lot of people, generally women.

So, we’re in a grey area where the law is being stretched and should really be reframed.

A very good question.

A women’s group campaigner said on the radio the other day that it was NOT their position to tell victims to report serious assaults inc rape to the police. Itbwas upto the victim to decide. That does lead one to ask what actions they expect employers to take and on the basis of an allegation ?

It is my view that sexual assaults like pinching someone’s bottom or a grope would not usually result in a prosecution by the police. Absolutely inappropriate in a work siuation certainly. However such an accusation is a resignation or sacking issue ?

I think in Ledsome;s case … it means she removed a threat by far means or fowl.
I guess it may come back to haunt her …

But really belittles those who have been harassed and humiliated in the work place ,,,,

However such an accusation is a resignation or sacking issue ?

I’ll bet more women have been paid off for reporting it along with some sort of non-disclosure thingy than the person being accused being sacked.

I think in Ledsome;s case … it means she removed a threat by far means or fowl.
I guess it may come back to haunt her …

Politics is an odd one itself because the standard practise seems to be that any impropriety is reported to the party Whip, who then files it away so it can be used as leverage to get MPs to vote the appropriate way!

The fact they are now talking about needing a Code of Conduct speaks volumes. “Oh I had no idea that sticking my cock in a dead pig was inappropriate, but here it is on page 382 of the code…” 😆

Yeah well we’ve kind of improved

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_for_witchcraft

In a lot of these cases the allegations are well known inside the right circles and those in the middle of it know what they have done. I reckon plenty are currently deciding of they want to spend more time with their families at the next election.

through

throw! 😆

who then files it away so it can be used as leverage to get MPs to vote the appropriate way!

I thought it also included covering it up/paying whoever off to make sure it didnt get into wider circulation.

It is going to be a tricky balance. Since Saville etc clearly had their offences covered up in the past we do risk overcompensating the other way and letting fantastists push their conspiracy theories.
I am not aware of many people losing jobs though as opposed to resigning or just not be considered for work for actions which whilst they might not be illegal arent exactly the sort most would chose to work with.

Or it suggests there is some substance there are they’re getting out before anything else gets into the public domain.

And I was right….

The dramatic circumstances of Sir Michael Fallon’s sudden resignation as defence secretary last week can be revealed by the Observer.

The cabinet heavyweight’s shock departure on Wednesday followed a phone call from the journalist, Jane Merrick, who informed Downing Street that he had lunged at her and attempted to kiss her on the lips in 2003 after they had lunched together.

The revelation was the tipping point for No 10, which the Observer understands had been compiling a list of alleged incidents involving Fallon since claims against him were first made.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/04/michael-fallon-defence-secretary-sexual-harassment

Probably a whole load more incidents out there as well…

No politician resigns if there is no substance behind the allegations. Usually they resign to prevent more stories getting out in the hope – like Fallon – they can minimise the damage to their reputation

Can do, don’t forget Rolf Harris was convicted entirely on the weight of accusation. No DNA, no witnesses other than the accusers who couldn’t confirm dates or locations etc. None of the individual counts would have been enough to convict – in fact the main count involving his daughters former friend had been turned down by the CPS already.

I’m surprised there are so many allegators roaming about. They should be in a zoo with the crocodiles.

Jonathan Pie’s take on the Tory Naughty Boy list:

WARNING: VERY SWEARY (as always) but funny and insightful.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsXC1_ZoVdg[/video]

It is my view that sexual assaults like pinching someone’s bottom or a grope would not usually result in a prosecution by the police.

Really? A grope might be described as “touching over clothes without consent” or words to that effect. If there is sufficient evidence likely to result in a conviction then I think it would be prosecuted, and you might even find yourself on the register if you are convicted!

Absolutely inappropriate in a work siuation certainly. However such an accusation is a resignation or sacking issue ?

I’m not sure if you meant to put the ? there? Are you questioning whether inappropriate and unwanted physical contact to other colleagues, especially subordinate ones, is gross misconduct?

Where the potential for confusion arises is where it is not clear that the other party did not want the conduct. If only we were all equipped with communication systems to make it possible to clarify our understanding of each other!

Yesterday my local paper tweeted that the local MP had denied being a sex pest and included a link to a story that had been deleted.

I thought this was bang out of order as they couldn’t even back up their own tweet. He would also deny being an astronaut, the man inside the Big Bird costume and the shooter on the grassy knoll.