Doctor claims to have doped 150 sports stars

I don’t think that money is the primary motivation in most cases.

What do you think it is then?…

big_n_daft

Doping needs to be a criminal offence. For the athlete, for the doctor and for the middle men/women with jail time in the sentencing policy. Only then will the risks outweigh the gains

It’s cheating at sport. Get some perspective. Big boys and girls making the choice to gamble with their health/reputation for potentially massive financial gain, not hurting anyone else (with the exception of combat sports like boxing and MMA where roids may well give you an edge to severely damage someone).

It’s cheating at sport. Get some perspective.

Something that some people dedicate their lives to and also make a living from. Perspective?

Something that some people dedicate their lives to and also make a living from. Perspective?

& can potentially cheat & lie their way to many millions a la Armstrong?

However you dress it up it’s immoral & can potentially benefit the individual huge success & fame…

So, yeah, criminal offence? I think so too.

not hurting anyone else

it’s fraud, both sporting and financial. The numbers are staggering in terms of the difference in earning for getting gold or not

If you don’t think it hurts people you need to think about the issues a lot harder and do some background reading other than Lance biographies

The Italians and others have criminalised it

What do you think it is then?

Winning and/or not loosing, not been left behind, not succeeding as everyone expects you to, fear of being dropped from the team, the squad your life.

Very few cheats really make a lot of money out of it, for the few that do succeed the money comes later.

Very few cheats really make a lot of money out of it, for the few that do succeed that comes later.

I th k you’re being a bit naive.

For one, do you know how much a course of PEDs cost? Not. Cheap. Is the answer.

I’ll grant you that success can definitely be appealing as is the acknowledgement of your peers…..but…..with that success comes much money….& don’t try to tell me there isn’t more than a few who’ve had their head turned by the thought of making a stack of cash..

not hurting anyone else (with the exception of combat sports like boxing and MMA where roids may well give you an edge to severely damage someone).

Aaah! So you understand that hurt is only a physical issue. I see your problem.

I think you’re being a bit naive, loads of squad members from cycling teams in the Armstrong era will have left the sport with barely any more than they entered it with, but they will have all been on the juice just for a shot at a supporting role on the tour team.

There will have been years when virtually the whole entry for the 100m at the Olympics will have been juiced, but nobody remembers those knocked out in the eliminating rounds. They just go home to their full time jobs financing their own trips to races hoping they might make a breakthrough.

Armstrong and the EPL players are the exceptions, they are the top of the pyramid, but there is a lot of doping going on all the way down to the base.

I think you’re being a bit naive, loads of squad members from cycling teams in the Armstrong era will have left the sport with barely any more than they entered it with, but they will have all been on the juice just for a shot at a supporting role on the tour team.

I don’t for one second believe that their sole motivation was just to be on the team.

So, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Ok?

captainsasquatch

Aaah! So you understand that hurt is only a physical issue. I see your problem.

So what about creatine? BCAA’s ecdysterone? protein powder? Aren’t they performance enhancing?

As for legality, if you’re going to overhaul the criminal justice system to make besmirching soccer a crime that incurs jail time I’d rather they first impose stiffer sentences for rapists, child molesters, people who kill cyclists while not looking at the road…things like that first, because jail won’t be a deterent anyway.

If Wayne Rooney pissed hot tommorow, got exposed as the soccer’s biggest drug cheat and went to jail for a year, even five years he’d come out having served his time and he’d still be worth £130million. Think he wouldn’t do it? Of course he would. Anyone would.

Ultra competitive people will do anything to win, especially when millions of pounds are involved.

doping is like corruption, it’s a cancer in sport. Accepting it isn’t the answer.

even five years he’d come out having served his time and he’d still be worth £130million. Think he wouldn’t do it? Of course he would. Anyone would

proceeds of crime act (or whatever it’s called) could go for the money

now he’s done time and lost most of his cash or would have to move to a less desirable country to spend any he could hide

also you prosecute the chain of people involved, as soon as you start removing them from sport the pyramid of lies starts to collapse

I know it was only hypothetical, but there is no way Wayne Rooney has taken anything performance enhancing! I wish he would get caught though as at least it would rule him of the squad for the summer.

proceeds of crime act (or whatever it’s called) could go for the money

Would be very hard to make that stick. Wayne Rooney could contract kill a bus full of nuns and still be fabulously rich and the end of it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/03/cyclist-at-centre-of-drug-cheat-claims-against-150-sport-stars/

At least the stance from UKAD is better than we’d have expected in the pre festina days (do nothing) and the immediate post festina days (bust anyone who sticks their head above the parapet, and hope they don’t sue). At least they now have a legal framework, and professional standards that can be reviewed and changed if need be. It’s one of the many reasons it took so long to bring Lance down, lack of actual evidence, the disappearance of evidence didn’t help, but that’s another issue.

TBH, if UKAD had gone in all guns blazing trying to bust this Bonar monkey, with no evidence, a half way decent lawyer could probably have bankrupted them, or at least made a serious dent in the cash flow situation, they don’t have that big a budget. (7 or 8 million quid IIRC) And if he is doping premier league players, it only needs one of them, or their team, or the teams money man, to bankroll his defence. Then UKAD are in trouble, and won’t have budget to do anything else.

And FWIW, doping is relatively cheap.
If you want to run a high risk (getting caught, dying, making yourself ill) and high gain program (pump yourself pull of gear until you’ve got veins like bits of rope and blood like tar). The drugs are freely available and would only cost three or four hundred quid a month. More than likely less than that.

If you want a good program, with precisely timed doses, minimal risk of dying or getting caught, latest (undetectable) drugs and so on, that will cost you. Serious amounts of cash. Add another couple of zeros type thing. Premier league money.

I lost my job in the immediate aftermath of Festina, one of the guys vaguely involved with the team I was riding for was accused of being a low level player in the whole thing. The plug got pulled and 40 people were out of work.

Turns out they had the wrong guy.

Nice.

Ha ha, the footy-fan deniers are out in force – they have the means, the incentive and the FA / club systems that ‘protects’ them from the normal scrutiny that most other sports. Simply popping a pill that means they can run the legs of the opposition for the last 15 minutes and score does no harm? Trouble is much of the media have to much of an interest via TV rights to want to upset the status quo to keep the gravy-train running.

Surely it’s Viagra he’s dealing in with a name like ‘Bonar’

;o)

I’ll get my coat.

Drugs in a major national sport…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club_supplements_controversy
Also a great way to not handle a major investigation in the end of the day. If ever there was a reason for parliamentary select comittee’s it’s where the jurisdictions of law don’t line up. If the UKAD can’t (by remit/powers) the police can’t and the GMC can’t then go above the lot of them.

As for the legalities how does artificially enhancing your CV go, is it a criminal offence as in reality in a lot of cases it’s a similar thing. Making yourself look better to attract a better remuneration or get a better job.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/03/cyclist-at-centre-of-drug-cheat-claims-against-150-sport-stars/

Anyone know the cheaty amateur cyclist?

This quote from the telegraph article amused me…

In a statement, the clinic said: “We have checked our records thoroughly during the period Dr Bonar worked at Omniya and apart from the undercover athlete the Sunday Times used in its investigation, we can find absolutely no trace of a single high-profile sportsman or woman who has been treated or been seen at the clinic by Dr Bonar.”

The one bad egg story 😆

Anyone know the cheaty amateur cyclist?

Dan Stevens

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/03/cyclist-at-centre-of-drug-cheat-claims-against-150-sport-stars/

Turns out this Mark Bonar isn’t even a licenced doctor…..

Dan Stevens

😀 yes, his name is in the article I linked. I wondered if anyone knows him.

Sorry, didn’t click the link. But anyway, several friends of mine know him/have raced with him. Ditto the last (?) one to get busted, Andy Hastings. Who is also a “friend” of mine.

It’s difficult to avoid if you race/have raced enough.

I would suspect a few on here know him as well. He is a mountain biker as well.

So, yeah, criminal offence? I think so too.

It’s an offence in France which is how they can get the police involved, who can then execute various powers associated with investigating criminal offences such as search and seizure. Just ask David Millar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/34653817

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11779464/Government-urged-to-make-doping-a-criminal-offence-after-new-scandal-engulfs-athletics.html

It would be good to see it made a criminal offence here. It seemed to have a significant effect on French sports people when it was made a criminal offence there.

Would we see people persecuted for sticky bottle?

It’s already a fineable offence. No need to pick on them as well.

And wasn’t it a civil offense in France before they upgraded it to criminal?
Some changes in the way it can be investigated and the size and type of penalties.

How can he only have got 21 months ban?
A welsh amateur rugby player recently got 4 years, his mate got two years just for having cocaine in his system!

When he got caught, it was a 2 year ban for first offence. It’s changed to a 4 year ban since then.

Breaking news – he has been supplying Ranieiri with laughing gas for months now 😉

When he got caught, it was a 2 year ban for first offence. It’s changed to a 4 year ban since then.

Ah, thanks for that.

Selling illegal, performance enhancing drugs to a Premier League footballer would be no harder than selling them any other get rich quick scheme – dodgy timeshare/property developments, bonds etc. They love them!

I wonder when he started doping? 😀

He hardly seems apologetic!

well that facebook post is from about 1 month before he got busted…

EDIT

or perhaps he had already been busted, and it was just a month before he was actually banned?

from the telegraph:

banned for failing to provide a sample for an out-of-competition test in January 2014.

Well, whenever it was he seemed fairly intent on justifying doping…..read into it what you will..

Jeez, Dan is a complete w**ker!