Do you Vote? – Paxman Vs Brand-Newsnight

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  • Do you Vote? – Paxman Vs Brand-Newsnight
  • Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    However, while the sentiment in the Paxman video is admirable, it’s verging on Bono-esque levels of hyprocrisy.

    The hypocrisy thing is a smokescreen. He’s quite open about it in the New Statesman piece. Everyone who lives in the West and claims to be concerned about inequality, social issues etc can be dismissed as a hypocrite, but it doesn’t devalue the point. If all those who espoused equality and egalitarianism were first required to impoverish themselves then that simply plays into the hands of their opponents as they could more easily be ignored and dismissed.

    peterfile
    Member

    Oh well, we had better dismiss what he says then. We can then listen to the politicians and their dead pan deliveries on all thing political, economic and social…and still not believe what they say.

    What are you talking about? I’m referring to Tommy Sheridan which, if you’d quoted my post in context, would have been been apparent.

    Tommy Sheridan is a liar, that’s sufficient enough to dismiss what he says.

    El-bent
    Member

    What are you talking about? I’m referring to Tommy Sheridan which, if you’d quoted my post in context, would have been been apparent.

    Ah, I see. I thought you were going on about brand..still you were trying to draw comparisons between the two of them it seems.

    Tom_W1987
    Member

    He’s trying to be a Marxist Byron (if that’s possible). Except he’s not mad bad and dangerous to know, he needs to actually help topple a country instead of talking about it.

    If he had any sense he’d know that the young need a charismatic leader like him and that he could change things within government by doing a UKIP and steal votes away from Labour to force them further left – as I don’t think the British have it in them for a fully blown armed revolution even if we did have access to the weaponry needed.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Everyone who lives in the West and claims to be concerned about inequality, social issues etc can be dismissed as a hypocrite, but it doesn’t devalue the point. If all those who espoused equality and egalitarianism were first required to impoverish themselves then that simply plays into the hands of their opponents as they could more easily be ignored and dismissed.

    Indeed this

    Its like you cannot speak out about social injustice unless you are ravished by poverty…then it would be the politics of envy label thrown at you no doubt and you would be told you were lazy for not achieving.

    Like most insults its just a smokescreen to avoid debate and make you debate the person rather than the issue

    Premier Icon SaxonRider
    Subscriber

    [pedant hat on]

    Shibboleth – Member

    The problem is that the hoi polloi that are blinded by his flowery language are also the sort of people that would follow Hitler if they heard him utter the words “Bankers’ Bonuses”.

    That should simply be ‘hoi polloi’. ‘Hoi’ means ‘the’.

    [/pedant hat on]

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    He does have some valid points, even Paxman said “I wouldn’t disagree with many of those things.”

    plyphon
    Member

    Out of interest, where did all this come from?

    Last I knew Brand was still that insufferable comedian making his jokes funny by shouting as loud as he could, talking about how many shags he’s had and was making shit films whilst appearing in OK! Magazine & Cosmo.

    I’m so out of touch. Going to watch this tonight.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    I agree that the current system is broken, but Brand was talking a load of bollox. I’m afraid he lost me at “I don’t get my authority from this pre-existing paradigm”.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    That should simply be ‘hoi polloi’

    Arguable, that. Hoi Polloi is used as a phrase in English, we’re not speaking Greek. So we don’t necessarily need to treat it as such. Same reason you don’t need to (or shouldn’t) use Latin plurals for words imported from Latin.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    The Paradigm be is referring to is that you can either vote Conservative or Labour, who differ remarkedly little in their policies and by not voting one has no ‘right’ to criticise on the party in power.

    NB A few other minority parties do exist…

    Premier Icon SaxonRider
    Subscriber

    molgrips – Member

    That should simply be ‘hoi polloi’

    Arguable, that. Hoi Polloi is used as a phrase in English, we’re not speaking Greek. So we don’t necessarily need to treat it as such. Same reason you don’t need to (or shouldn’t) use Latin plurals for words imported from Latin.

    Fair enough. But now you’ve just knocked me off my high and mighty throne and ruined my Friday.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Boom! 🙂

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Out of interest, where did all this come from?

    I first became aware of his transformation from idiot celebrity shagger to anti-establishment commentator with this missive after Thatcher’s death:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

    Closely followed by a superb piece on the murder of Lee Rigby:

    http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    Everyone who lives in the West and claims to be concerned about inequality, social issues etc can be dismissed as a hypocrite, but it doesn’t devalue the point. If all those who espoused equality and egalitarianism were first required to impoverish themselves then that simply plays into the hands of their opponents as they could more easily be ignored and dismissed.

    Hear hear. This expresses exactly what I was thinking, only more betterer

    Brand is spot on. Yes, he was confusing. He may even be confused himself. The point stands though: things need to change. The more people who start talking/thinking this way, the better.

    yunki
    Member

    Well, it’s lovely to have a spokesperson who can dance verbal rings around the great white shark of political journalism, while still keeping more than enough in reserve to concisely boot home the point once or twice..
    And he seems to have ruffled feathers amongst the devout minions of the braying classes here too..

    Which suggests to me that there may possibly be light at the end of the tunnel.. Which is a relief

    He needs to put the thesaurus down and stop writing in ‘Jeremy Clarkson on magic mushrooms’ mode before I can take him seriously.

    peterfile
    Member

    Brand is spot on. Yes, he was confusing. He may even be confused himself. The point stands though: things need to change. The more people who start talking/thinking this way, the better.

    I think this is key.

    Brand wasn’t great in the interview, BUT, it’s gone viral and people are listening to him. The message behind his arguments still came through, even though the substance was a bit naff. So this is a good thing, he’s potentially hitting a demographic who would normally let this sort of thing pass them by.

    So long as his messages stay clear enough behind all that pointless verbal wizardry, then the more people who listen to him the better.

    I can’t help but like the guy. Again, that’s a good thing when you’re trying to convey a message that is heavy and often too difficult to want to comprehend.

    plyphon
    Member

    I first became aware of his transformation from idiot celebrity shagger to anti-establishment commentator with this missive after Thatcher’s death:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

    Closely followed by a superb piece on the murder of Lee Rigby:

    http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

    I’ll give that a read, thanks.

    Writes like a don, talks like a drunk.

    Will be interesting to see how he gets on at new statesman. Hopefully he will grow up as editor and will use his writing skils to the fore.

    Paxman looked both amused and bemused but handled it all pretty well. All very well ranting but at some stage you have to propose concrete alternatives rather than hiding behind vague rebellion nonsense. For an ardent revolutionary he has spent enough time cosying up to parts of the Establishment.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    Will be interesting to see how he gets on at new statesman. Hopefully he will grow up as editor and will use his writing skils to the fore.

    Pretty sure he is just guest editor for one issue.

    Banks make lots of money?!?!?

    The whole crisis falsifies this. Banks are fundamentally low profitABILITY organisations that mask, or at least masked, low basic returns (much, much lower than industrial companies) with massive and, as history shows, unsustainable levels of leverage, And so, when things go wrong, the whole facade came tumbling down around them. In the meantime, employees raped the shareholders rotten hence the adage, “work for a bank, but never own one.”

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    He’s very articulate in his criticism of our terrible government and the forces behind it.

    But the **** doesn’t vote.

    🙄

    X-post. Is that the the case mike? Shame if so as I was looking forward to his adjustment.

    Shibboleth
    Member

    Brand wasn’t great in the interview, BUT, it’s gone viral and people are listening to him. The message behind his arguments still came through, even though the substance was a bit naff. So this is a good thing, he’s potentially hitting a demographic who would normally let this sort of thing pass them by.

    That’s exactly how the EDF started: a smart Alec mouthpiece for the disaffected masses becoming the figurehead of an antiestablishment movement badly disguised as politics. Che Guevara he ain’t.

    Shibboleth
    Member

    Brand wasn’t great in the interview, BUT, it’s gone viral and people are listening to him. The message behind his arguments still came through, even though the substance was a bit naff. So this is a good thing, he’s potentially hitting a demographic who would normally let this sort of thing pass them by.

    That’s exactly how the EDF started: a smart Alec mouthpiece for the disaffected masses becoming the figurehead of an antiestablishment movement badly disguised as politics. Che Guevara he ain’t.

    cybicle
    Member

    I don’t know why anyone’s demanding that he should propose any ‘concrete alternatives’, when by his own admission, he hasn’t set out to do so, merely that the current system is crap and that his rant is simply to get people to consider what alternatives there might actually be. And he’s done this very successfully indeed, as it’s provoked mass debate as exemplified on here.

    No-one’s demanding that Paxman come up with any answers, for example, and considering his long career as a political journalist, you’d think he might have an idea or two, instead of being an egotistical bully.

    And I don’t see any of Brand’s detractors coming up with anything themselves. Maybe they’re content with the current mess.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    The most obvious starting point is RON. Easy to do…

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    That’s exactly how the EDF started: a smart Alec mouthpiece for the disaffected masses becoming the figurehead of an antiestablishment movement badly disguised as politics.

    I thought that EDF started with the acquisition and mergers of SEEBOARD Plc, London Electricity Plc, SWEB Energy Plc and two coal-fired power stations and a combined cycle gas turbine power station?

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    The most obvious starting point is RON. Easy to do…

    Yep, plus PR.

    yunki
    Member

    Awww, Shib you seem flustered..
    I’m sure that any change that comes about as a result of Brand’s eloquence will start in ways too subtle for the reptilian mind to comprehend.. So don’t worry your pretty little head about it dear.

    deluded
    Member

    I find his rakish shtick tub-thumping routine a little irritating.

    No import or real substance – just ideological soufflé .

    ideological soufflé

    Ah, the forgotten Zappa album!

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    Hitler and EDL*, your coming up with some great comparisons shibby, why do you compare him to racist right wing muppets?

    *i presume you did mean the racist blokes not the French energy blokes.

    Junkyard
    Member

    That’s exactly how the EDF started: a smart Alec mouthpiece for the disaffected masses becoming the figurehead of an antiestablishment movement badly disguised as politics. Che Guevara he ain’t.

    Deep and insightful you aint
    That is hyperbole masquerading as analysis
    I dont know what is worse comparing him to the EDL [ I assume that is who you mean] or thinking the head of the EDL is a smart alec – perhaps he is compared to you?

    the forgotten Zappa album!

    😀

    allthepies
    Member

    Sorry, didn’t listen to all of it. Had to floss the cat.

    Did he (Brand) come up with any solutions or is it all someone else’s fault ?

    cybicle
    Member

    That’s exactly how the EDL started: a smart Alec mouthpiece for the disaffected masses becoming the figurehead of an antiestablishment movement badly disguised as politics

    No; the EDL ‘started’ as an attempt to make far-right wing extremism more palatable, by pretending not to be the BNP/NF/BM. It’s subsequently been exposed as exactly what anyone with half a brain knew anyway, been abandoned by it’s leader, and is still exactly what it always has been; a fascist network for racist thugs.

    Comparing Russell Brand to the EDL really is clutching at straws.

    I gave it a watch, to be honest, I preferred him live at the O2 arena. I think he should go back to his earlier style.

    schrickvr6
    Member

    I used to hate everything about him, but I’m really warming to him.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I wish he could get away from the flowery language- people use words like that when they want to seem clever. He’s got no need to do that… So ironically it makes him look less clever than he really is.

    Shibboleth – Member

    That interview does nothing apart from fuel “disenfranchisement”

    How does an interview fuel disenfranchisement? You know what actually does that? Lack of representation. Talking about something doesn’t create it, it just draws attention to the fact that it’s already there.

    andeh
    Member

    I used to hate everything about him, but I’m really warming to him.

    Me too, every time he pops up I like him a little more.

    I have time for his ideas. I hope he’s not just blowing smoke, it’d be nice for something to change, I feel helpless (politically/financially/spiritually) at the minute. I wouldn’t vote for him, if you get me.

    Either way, this coming issue of New Statesman will no doubt break all sales records.

    piemonster
    Member

    I liked it, I’m just glad somebody is talking about the real problems of our society somewhere other than a Socialist Worker Party meeting in the back room of a pub.

    He made it quite clear he wanted to start people talking, and also made it quite clear that others more knowledgable than him are able to provide solutions where he couldn’t.

    I think to some degree he’s achieved that. A doubt there are many that would have been given the platform, let alone made it on the radar.

    mudshark
    Member

    the forgotten Zappa album!

    Now there’s a man who had some interesting stuff to say on politics – oh and he encouraged people to vote.

    Brand definitely has a career in politics ahead of him. He’s full of shit, is a excellent orator and addresses problems without offering solutions. Long words wont solve the main problem of over population.

    wrecker
    Member

    No; the EDL ‘started’ as an attempt to make far-right wing extremism more palatable, by pretending not to be the BNP/NF/BM.

    Shows how much I know. I thought it was a bunch of hooligans who were bored because they weren’t allowed to fight at football games any more.
    I don’t think we’ll see brand in politics. He believes what he says and (right or wrong) is speaking according to his morals. Politicians don’t do that stuff.

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