OP, you are describing my life.  If you find the answer please let me know.

she can’t do the activities she REALLY wants to do, and resents me for being able to do mine

I dunno what it is that she can’t do, but it sounds sporty if injury has stopped it.  Could she maybe get into coaching, reffing or something ? (obviously you can’t suggest that but maybe someone else who knows her could)

Best of luck with it; I see quite a lot of “that sort of shit” in my marriage though it manifests a bit differently.  Afraid I largely ignore it currently.

As old as the hills.

Many a man has succumbed to constantly keeping the peace in a never ending hostage negotiation, appeasing their partners escalating whims no matter how unreasonable, childish and selfish. Often ends in affairs/divorce or some kind of breakdown when keeping up the façade becomes untenable.

You often see it repeated when a new partner/next victim comes a long (some actively seek out partners who will put up with it) and you feel a bit sorry for them, as they’re made to dance like a puppet.

Unfortunately you will have to have it out with her, discussing the causes and feelings involved, or it will carry on, with the goal posts constantly on the move. There needs to be some lateral movement on both sides! An understanding both of you have certain things, that make you what you are as individuals and there is no malice in the resultant actions that piss the other off. Setting out ways you can both tolerate doing the things you need to do to live a relatively happy life, including things you do together and separately to maintain/improve your relationship.

Not an easy discussion to have if the person is defensive, uses diversion and gets aggressive! The all too common retorts when difficult truths have to be dealt with.

Are you both happy with your sex life?

I’ve found that is the bedrock/keystone of a relationship. Without a good sex life frustration and resentment builds. And it is also a good barometer of how your relationship is. Sex life was good, but now not? Suggests a problem.

YGH

(divorced)

Hora? Is that you?

I pretty much agree with what lunge and martinhutch said on page 1 so I won’t repeat that.

However, my jaw dropped at several ridiculous comments that women are generally selfish and waste their time sitting on the sofa staring at their phones while watching junk on tv, and would prefer to scoff ice cream instead of solving their problems. You didn’t choose your partners very well! Mr Pea and I go biking together and if we didn’t, I’d be out there anyway, not  watching tv!

This is markoulinis wife. This sounds similar to our situation (although perhaps not to the same degree). In my case feelings of frustration towards my OH usually are just projections of feelings of frustration about myself. I am feeling frustrated, angry with myself and my situation and this comes out badly to the ones closest to me. Offers of ‘quick fixes/solutions’ to my problem, like find a new hobby, also infuriate me because they usually mean ‘your attitude causes ME a problem. You need to get a grip asap because I am affected by this negativity and I don’t like it’. In other words, it’s as if you’re saying ‘it’s all about ME!’

Instead of offering ‘solutions’, which she is already aware of herself, my advice would be to preoccupy yourself with understanding why she feels angry/frustrated/ worried. Have many discussions and really listen to her. But not just that, because don’t expect that you will ask once and she will just be happy and willing to spill her most inner and scary thoughts. Really<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> try to understand what’s troubling her. Sometimes even vocalising your worries can be a scary thought because you are also trying to hide them from your own self. So talking about them to someone else is difficult. If and when she will talk to you, just listen and try to empathise and understand. Don’t jump into trying to solve her problems! (See previous point). </span>

Sorry for the essay and i hope this helps

I think what you are describing are symptoms not causes.  something else is the cause.

Mrs TJ and I do not argue often these days – 38 years together and disgustingly happy most of the time.  We have a real partnership of equals and have explicitly discussed issues that annoy the other and found solutions to these issues even if they are only armed truces!  sometimes you just have to accept some things “just are” and learn to live with them.  For example – MrsTJ would always save for a rainy day, I would always blow my money on fripperies and live on potato soup the rest of the month.  We compromise somewhere in the middle and don’t let the others attitude annoy us.

When we do have rows it does tend to be pretty explosive to the point we did seek professional help good few years ago

for me this is one =for couples counselling if you cannot discuss the issues

vickypea / markoulini I agree with.

Tj- have you got a recipe for potato soup 😉

From reading your posts here DrP I have to say that it sounds like you’re describing my marriage in many respects but without the kids or the winning bike races.

We went through similar problems for a couple if years or so and tried anything I could to sort them out but to no avail. I pretty much stopped racing the bike, would only ride on weekdays when I was off work (shift worker) so we could have weekends together, tried getting her more involved with my hobbies or trying to help her find some if her own but nothing helped. We tried counselling but in all honesty it was a waste of time.

The toughest decision I ever had to make was the choice between me spending even more time and effort trying to fix things or walking away. I realised that walking away was the best option so that the problems didn’t end up ruining my life as well as hers.

The funny thing was that we never actually argued as such, we’d have some disagreements now and again but never anything major.

I hope you manage to get things sorted out DrP as it’s a horrible situation to be in.

A quick match the answers quiz

A. Perpetually unhappy with moments of happiness

B. Perpetually happy with moments of unhappiness

1. Husband

2. Wife

Match A and B with 1 and 2.

Sweeping generalisation of course…..

Three pages in and no mention of a new patio…..

😀

I’m going through much the same here, 3 children, worked my socks off to build a business that will give us a better standard of living than working full-time as a teacher (and allow me to spend more time at home).  A year and a half in to part-time (and running the other business together) and things are still spiralling out of control.  Families on both sides are supportive yet frustrated (esp. on her side – perhaps due to us living on their property) that it won’t just work as we should ‘have everything’, beautiful house, children, great lifestyle.  Nothing it seems will make her happy (for long).

The issue with me is that of unpredictability and wild mood swings that can last for days/weeks.  I’m currently living in a flat on the farm rather than in the family home as I’ve been thrown out for suggesting that I could wash up a cup if I used a clean one to make myself a cuppa (after complimenting the meal she’d prepared and offering her a cup and that I would wash-up – including my mug(!).  One minute things are OK, another and it’s demanding I get out, stop threatening her, accusing me of making it all up.  My current response is to say I don’t want to argue – I’ve tried reasoning but it is a complete waste of time (she’ll say I talk to much, use long words (she’s the English graduate!), and am boring – maybe…)

I’ve got some tough times ahead it seems and big life-changing decisions to make.  We are seeing a counsellor (had a couple of months worth over the last 6 months), I hang in there for the children, get out on the bike/climbing and think ‘it can’t be all that bad, suck it up, be there for the young ‘uns (she’s often in bed when they go at 7pm and doesn’t surface until 9am (even if I’m out on the farm/work and the children have been up since 6:30am).  She spends hours and hours on her phone yet criticises me for using mine even when it’s linked to our business.

The worst thing is that it’s her parent’s farm and although they’ve supported me over the last few years, she’s found that telling them I’m a liar, I’m aggressive/threatening is extremely challenging and I do understand how tough it must be for them, they value what I’ve done but I don’t know how far it can be pushed.

We’ve tried getting her to see the family Dr (who I’ve seen when I went to him after several anxiety/panic attacks when she threatened to tell police I’d beaten her and stop me seeing the children (never happened) – which could/would also loose me my teaching job).

I’m pretty sure I know what the consensus would be on this, I’m almost there myself, but I wanted to add my story, you’re not alone in your frustration and suffering!

Moving in to the flat has actually lifted a huge weight from my shoulders, it’s an incredible sensation and I suspect that unless you’ve been there it sounds like a load of twaddle.

Will the children be happier without the atmosphere in the house?  I suspect so.  Will I see them a lot?  I’d want 50/50 (despite her ideas on the matter).  Will they do great things with me that I can’t do when she’s dictating what we can/can’t do?  Certainly (my sister’s wedding being a prime and extremely upsetting example of something she’s ruined for me).  Is it still hard to work out what to do?  No doubt the biggest decision I’ll ever make.

There’s parts of the OP’s scenario that I can relate to, in that I regularly have to overcome my own feeling of guilt for going out on my bikes, when my better half is extremely not confident riding on the roads and has done very little outdoors for years. But the last ~15 months of fitness cycling have given me back a bit of a spark, I used to very sporty, but my lower back injury in 2008 knocked what little sport/exercise I still had left on the head. When I can’t go out riding due to illness or carp weather, it affects my mood rather negatively, but then at times I go a bit OTT with training and feel a bit of “over-training irritability” come on!

Has MrsP been down the route of sports physio-esque sessions, with a professional that can advise her on what she can do to help combat the ligament issue and what exercise she could do?

Being self-employed seems to make it very tricky for many people to switch off from work, compared to most of us that work for others, which will inevitably eat into their “free time.” It can make their life be ruled by their company, if they aren’t careful, which will naturally make it easy for them to be resentful of others who can do their “9-5” and then step away from their work hat.

I suspect a lot of us here are envious of how you can be a successful racer with just one night’s training a week… You sound like you are wasting a true gift! If you haven’t already, you should get yourself a quality turbo trainer and use it frequently to train harder and race on Zwift or something similar.

Having young children was very stressfull time for us.

Stopped riding for a few years.

It gets better when they get older. And as someone said above a good Sex life is very important.

race on Zwift or something

Steady on, it sounds like he;s suffered enough.

I’m pretty sure I know what the consensus would be on this, I’m almost there myself

Blimey, we’re all way ahead of you – but it’s always easier to leave someone else’s relationship, eh?

Yup, I’ve found writing it all down to be very useful in looking at it objectively.  Pages and pages of the stuff, just spent an hour looking through old photos and most of the events that ought to be the happiest moments of our lives are tainted with the memory of some ridiculous bust-up that occurred in the weeks before/after due to some silly nonsense that could have been resolved with a “yeah, sorry about that”.  Never happens though.

This is markoulinis wife. This sounds similar to our situation (although perhaps not to the same degree). In my case feelings of frustration towards my OH usually are just projections of feelings of frustration about myself. I am feeling frustrated, angry with myself and my situation and this comes out badly to the ones closest to me. Offers of ‘quick fixes/solutions’ to my problem, like find a new hobby, also infuriate me because they usually mean ‘your attitude causes ME a problem. You need to get a grip asap because I am affected by this negativity and I don’t like it’. In other words, it’s as if you’re saying ‘it’s all about ME!’

Instead of offering ‘solutions’, which she is already aware of herself, my advice would be to preoccupy yourself with understanding why she feels angry/frustrated/ worried. Have many discussions and really listen to her. But not just that, because don’t expect that you will ask once and she will just be happy and willing to spill her most inner and scary thoughts. Really try to understand what’s troubling her. Sometimes even vocalising your worries can be a scary thought because you are also trying to hide them from your own self. So talking about them to someone else is difficult. If and when she will talk to you, just listen and try to empathise and understand. Don’t jump into trying to solve her problems! (See previous point).

Sorry for the essay and i hope this helps

Very honest and useful post, thanks for sharing.

I’m not sure I’ve ever been the most communicative person in a relationship and my first wife wasn’t either…..a fatal combination when you’re not getting on!  My second wife has taught me that we have to talk occasionally and the results are there to see.  So Mrs M’s post above is useful.

Just a wee point hat occurred to me DrP posts all sound like a bit “me” and “her” – very adversarial rather that “we” and “us”

You need to take the blame out of it.  This is a situation you (plural) are in – a solution needs to be found for both of you.  Its not about blaming anyone or one of yo having to change.  Its about what you (plural) can do to change / improve the situation.  Its about co operation and finding solutions for both of you not one of yo9u having to do this and the other having to do the other

Look for solutions in a non judgemental / no blame way and do this co operatively ie “we are both unhappy, how can we be both happier?”  make the target that you both are going to be happier, take the steps needed to get there both of you together.  Break it down into tiny steps

DrP: I started to write a long reply, but really, everyones situation and relationship is so different it just read like bollocks. Your situation resonates though.

Only wee things I will say:

1) Sounds shit, frustrating and upsetting – I wish you all the best

2) Marriage/partnership is hard takes effort

3) as a few have mentioned, my wife has never really looking for ‘solutions’, and i stopped doing anything even remotely like ‘coaching’ many years ago (like your don’t be GP’y). she often just wants to chat.

Does sound like the symptoms are not necessarily the same as the cause. All the best, stick in there!

>Look for solutions in a non judgemental / no blame way and do this co operatively

Generally much easier with an independent 3rd party eg a couples counsellor…

Threads like this reinforce just how happy I am that I never got married.

, “I would always blow my money on fripperies”

I have an image of a room full of top end helmets , all new and unopened 😀

Again all.. just reading through replies etc is helping.

I realise there are factions of my behaviour that cause unhappiness (similar to the tea mug incident above, and likely bigger ones too), but it’s the elements of ‘deeper unhappiness’ that I feel I am neither allowed to help with, nor be able to point out they might be able to be helped.

Has MrsP been down the route of sports physio-esque sessions, with a professional that can advise her on what she can do to help combat the ligament issue and what exercise she could do?

Yeah, she’s been seeing a sports PT, and getting remedial massages too.

The ‘being self employed’ thing resonates too. Yeah, MY work life is busy…when I’m there. But I’m able to ‘turn off’ and actually ‘finish work’ for the day.
I completely get that having a phone in your hand, that’s contactable 24/7, can be very draining. However, any suggestions of assistance/coaching/business lessons are, again, met with the “Stop trying to solve this” face….

RE the turbo trainer/Zwift comment… as has been said…I don’t want any more pain in my life… 😉

DrP

There’s a lot of honesty on this thread which is useful for everyone reading it I think.

My experience is that marriage takes a lot of work, you have to learn to bite your tongue and that often what you;re arguing about is not what you’re *really* arguing about – it’s just that the current discussion is a convenient safety valve for what the underlying issues are. Addressing those underlying issues can be almost impossible for those in the relationship as they’re both either the cause of or too close to them.

Threads like this reinforce just how happy I am that I never got married.

Lol 🙂

For example; I’m actually pretty good on teh bike – winning races etc etc. Rather than being met with “oh well done, I’m so proud” it genuinely feels that I’m resented for having a hobby, and doing well at it…

I’ve a constant feeling of guilt whenever I take time ‘for myself’ – such as going for a ride, or ‘fettling in the garage’. She paints a picture I’m there all teh time (which isn’t true) – it jsut feels like the times we spend as a family are immediately forgotton as soon as I go out and do something fun for myself..

welcome to my life 🙁   I do most of the child care and housework, all of the cooking and work between 4-8am but still get moaned at when I want to go on my bike.

Clearly there is some underlying issue here about her not being able to do “stuff” and you doing lots of it.

I think this is fundamentally wrong, at least the first bit. Like many (most?) on here I am a blokey sort of bloke who has a number of hobbies. Hobbies are a man thing. If a female partner is not happy with her male partner spending one evening a week at his hobby, interest, pastime or whatever he chooses to call it, the answer is rarely for her to find a hobby herself, or to find more time for her interests. There is an underlying dissatisfaction with the relationship. I speak from experience. The answer is rarely ever to buy her a bike not quite as good as yours. In the early “honeymoon” period of a relationship chicks will go along with this just to see more of her man, but it wears off. The problem is elsewhere.

Just a thought that I have had to try and put in place recently was based on what tjagain said: try and do the use/we and not you/me.  Anything that looks to you like a suggestion can be flipped and looks like an order.  Very much along the lines of: “Why are you so stupid you can just do this….”.  What I now  do is be interested in the situation and ask to have a conversation where you listen and they make suggestions.  You also have to be able to change and challenge your own behaviours for something to change.  Obviously if you keep doing something the same way it will not change.

The best example I have got is that I mentor somebody who has a significantly different way of looking at things than me.  Whenever I say something I always go back and check what I have said from their point of view and see if I could have done it differently/better.  They also have that challenge for me and I have found that it has massively improved our relationship, but it also means I look at all communication like this.  Self knowledge does not come from within you need to get and respect people’s view of you.  Sounds like you are having a pretty rough time but still some good stuff there.

Threads like this reinforce just how happy I am that I never got married.

Theads like this reinforce how happy I am to be happily married.

Really interesting and honest thread this. My sympathies to those in challenging situations, I’ve been there too. I can only really offer my experience as an example (perhaps not typical) of what happens if you leave…

My ex-wife and I were married for 14 years. Good careers, house owners, 2 kids etc etc. Our sex life was rubbish and had been since the kids arrived. This was apparently my fault and I spent many years apologising, feeling guilty and making an effort to put things right by taking on the majority of childcare, housework, sacrificing my interests to allow her to pursue her own. It reached a point where I became incredibly resentful of her and her attitude towards me. She got pissed one night and decided that we should split up. Much to her surprise I agreed and moved out 4 days later.

I have never been happier than I am now. 😀

The kids were devastated to begin with but they are fine now. I’ve got them 50 percent of the week and things have worked out pretty well with regards to access and whathaveyou

I’m renting a tiny house that’s all mine – if I want to watch football in my pants after work then I can. And I do.

I’m no longer responsible for someone else’s happiness. Or blamed for their inability to confront their own issues.

I can indulge my interests when I want and this is hugely important. My girlfriend is totally cool about me doing what I want when I want. She does the same. I will never, ever, EVER give up interests for someone else ever again. I’m completely capable of being a first rate father and boyfriend as long as I can do the things that make me happy. Stop me doing those things and I stop being myself. Never again will I let that happen. Perhaps it’s being selfish I don’t know, but what’s **** point in any of this if you can’t be happy?

Agree with above. Riding my bike makes me happy, and that translates into being happy at home.

My wife understands it too, and on the other hand, I also understand when she wants to do the things which make her happy.

It nearly always work for us.

If someone is unhappy they owe it to themselves to ovary/nut up and confront why this is so. Especially so if they’re an adult.

Unfortunately, you can’t force someone to “adult”. OP seems to be able to find happiness in what he does. If his OH can’t then that’s a hard problem to have. I feel his pain. You want to help, but the other person needs to want your help too OP 🙁

How’s her state of mind?

Perhaps she needs to see a doctor.

Nothing to add to your situation other than I hope you can sort it out.

Regarding the original question , I find myself in the lucky situation to be in a relationship/married to quite possibly the most laid back woman in the world and as such I can count the number of arguments we’ve had in the last 30 years on one hand.

We had 15 years of us time before kids arrived on the scene , she loves cycling almost as much as me , we have very similar music tastes and although we aren’t exactly flush due to only having one wage coming in are happy with our lot in life. I think the fact we were just good mates for 18 months before getting together (everyone else thought something was going on but it wasn’t)has really helped the way we are with each other.

but it’s the elements of ‘deeper unhappiness’ that I feel I am neither allowed to help with, nor be able to point out they might be able to be helped.

I’m no fan of stupid self help books or society’s imposed norms for “men” and “women” but I’ve tested a logic (which I think comes from Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) with a number of women and it seems to hold true in many cases.  Women who share a problem with you aren’t always (or even usually) looking for a solution to the problem, they are just venting/sharing the problem. If every-time she tells you something you attempt to help/fix it you actually make it less likely she will see you as a source of solutions when she needs them.

I’m not sure if (or perhaps more importantly she thinks) you are suggesting there might actually be some depression involved here.  If you are then I can clearly see why she thinks you are being all GPy.  Even if she has a medical problem, she’s looking for a husband not a clinician. Every medical problem does not need to be solved, and certainly not right now.  That might sound odd, especially to someone who has trained to fix people’s problems, but if she wants to be treated (for either the ligaments or any psychological/MH issue) she will go to her doc or specifically ask for your advice.  Whilst you continue to nag her to fix the issue it has as much chance of success as any other nagging.

 If the latter, why are you both together?  Do the pros outweigh the cons?

I think this..frequently..

Are you sure its her that has the problem?

In the same position as most on here, I have responsibility for two kids still at university so I keep the “famiy” home going.

I have delivered for my family at all levels not just financial and my other half has been a fantastic mum to them but the long and short is she simply hates my guts and it’s obvious to just about anyone who comes into contact with us.

She can do anything she wants job wise, education etc but prefers to whine at me and complain how shit her life is without doing anything about it. I pity her and i am so pleased that i dont have her miserable approach to everything. She is gradually alienating herself from all four of our kids and justifies this by being “right”

I have also just watched a friend of mines wife walk out after 30 years, he left his wife and 4 kids to be with her 30 years ago and has never seen them again. He built a multi million business and worshipped the ground she walked on. She said she no longer wanted to live with him but she still loved him.

You can do everything right and still be wrong.

As above, just try and talk and listen to her rather than ‘fix'<i> </i>her. Also, make sure that you are doing your fair share of cooking, cleaning and child care.

It might sound daft but it can easily piss people off if you’re seen to be making time for yourself but not doing any of the chores around the house, or spending any time with partner/ kids. If she isn’t able to do her usual hobbies then I imagine she’s feeling more frustrated than normal as well, I know I would be at least.

Im on to my 2nd wife, so perhaps I’m biased.

when i was with my first wife, (for 12 years in total) she didn’t generally want to do anything that i did, she would try things, at first, but as the years dragged on the enthusiasm waned until eventually, she had an affair. She had previously made many accusations about me having affairs (none of which were true)

any friends had to be people that she liked.

any ideas could only be good if she came up with them.

any decisions, about every single thing we ever did, in every aspect of life, were her decisions.

so when i found out about the affair, it was actually a relief.

we argued constantly, about trivial crap, she would argue with people who were agreeing with her.

My kids tell me that it has been the same with all of the several boyfriends who have lived with her since she got rid of me.

so, my advice would be, you can’t fix everyone, some people just don’t want it.

I will just add, ive been with the 2nd mrs martymac for 14 years and we have barely had a cross word said in that time.

perhaps she needs some space, perhaps she needs you to make sure she’s having a good time in bed, or perhaps it would be better for all concerned if you split up, but only you guys can decide.

Best wishes, marty.