Do I Abandon UST? Weight knowledgeable people needed :)

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  • Do I Abandon UST? Weight knowledgeable people needed :)
  • RealMan
    Member

    You’re running 2.5s and worried about weight?

    You’re running 2.5s and high pressures?

    What hassles?

    Also, the fear of taking a tyre off? You do know you have to do that if you get a puncture with tubes as well right? 😀

    doof_doof
    Member

    Isn’t a 2.5 UST over a kilo anyway?

    FWIW, I’ve never burped a UST tyre on a Stans rim, and I run silly low pressures.

    GW
    Member

    tubeless is rubbish and you don’t need to run big heavy 2.5″ tubes (they stretch ;))

    weight of a normal innertube Vs the weight the amount of sealant need to actually work + rim tape comes to isn’t all that different.

    I’m just about to drill a stans flow rim so I can use normal tubes.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    Normal Maxxis 2.5 Dual Ply seal well tubeless with some sealant and are a bit lighter than the UST ones.

    Otherwise, what RealMan said…

    weight of a normal innertube Vs the weight the amount of sealant need to actually work + rim tape comes to isn’t all that different

    You need rim tape with tubes too. And the sealant weighs quite a bit less. AND it seal punctures.

    RealMan
    Member

    I’m just about to drill a stans flow rim so I can use normal tubes.

    Seriously? 😆

    GW
    Member
    geetee1972
    Member

    Are you using the NoTubes yellow rim tape or NoTubes ‘rim strips’? Rim strips do give a better seal to the tyre and help prevent burping IME.

    What rims are you using? I’m guessing they’re non UST.

    I have had similar problems – expensive UST tyres easily pinch flatting on fast rocky terrain or burping air on fast hard pack turns.

    On rocky terrain I now run a Maxxis Dual Ply rear, non-UST tyre but running it tubeless with lots of latex. If you use plenty of washing up liquid, it’s realtively easy top get them to seal on either a UST rim (I’m running Easton Haven’s) or on other rims with a rim strip (harder to get it, ahem, up with just yellow tape but not impossible.)

    This works really well and as long as the tyre pressure is up around 30-35psi, I get no burping and no pinch flats. I just spent a whole week riding in Verbier on the fastest, rockiest trails I’ve ever done and didn’t have a single issue with this set up.

    The alternative to this would be to run a dual ply tyre with an inner tube but given how heavy the tyres are, I am glad to save the extra weight.

    If you are running a dual ply tyre (and I think you are since you state your tyres are 2.5″ and I don’t think Maxxis make a 2.5″ tyre that isn’t dual ply) then you may be able to get away with regular/light weight inner tubes, certainly on the front, maybe not on the back, but like I say, you can run non-UST tyres tubeless quite easily.

    RealMan
    Member

    Why not just run presta tubes instead of taking power tools to an expensive rim, and ruining it?

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    what do you need to drill on a flow? drill out to fit schreader rather than presta?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    You’re running 2.5s and worried about weight?

    You’re running 2.5s and high pressures?

    What hassles?

    Also, the fear of taking a tyre off? You do know you have to do that if you get a puncture with tubes as well right?

    This. If you want to save weight go to normal tyres run tubeless.

    GSuperstar
    Member

    So the only real worthy repy to this thread was:

    GW – “weight of a normal innertube Vs the weight the amount of sealant need to actually work + rim tape comes to isn’t all that different”

    That’s all that was needed 🙂

    Realman – The hassle was more refering to getting the tyre to seat.

    GW
    Member

    you need shit loads of sealant for a 2.5 tyre, and it still doesn’t bluddy seal punctures.

    You’re running 2.5s and worried about weight?

    a 2.5 minion single ply (or exo) is quite a bit lighter than a UST

    You’re running 2.5s and high pressures?

    why not? some of us need support from our tyres? 32psi (front) is about the minimum I can run without folding the sidewall

    GSuperstar
    Member

    Geetee- Thanks for the response. I’m running Mavic Ex721 with the Stans Rim Tape.

    I’ll have a look into the non-ust option, but judging by your comments I think I may just stick with my current set-up. Thanks for your input mate!

    geetee1972
    Member

    a 2.5 minion single ply (or exo) is quite a bit lighter than a UST

    It would be if they made one but they don’t. They do make a 2.35 minion single ply.

    I’m running Mavic Ex721 with the Stans Rim Tap

    Definitely try a rim strip then, i.e. the rubber band with the integrated valve stem. These really help to get the tyre to seal when first inflating and helps keep it seated.

    I absolutely agree with the tyre pressure thing. One of the benefits of tubeless is NOT that you can run lower pressures than with tubes. All that happens is you burp air.

    I know it’s messy but liberally globs of washing up liquid works almost every time if you’re having trouble getting any tubeless set up to seal initially. I pour it around the bead neat sometimes. That and a compressor or CO2 cannister.

    RealMan
    Member

    For a 2.5″ you could probably get away with 60g of sealant. At most you might need 100g of sealant.

    A continental 26″ supersonic inner tube 1.9-2.1″ is about ~100g.

    32psi (front) is about the minimum I can run without folding the sidewall

    With 2.5″ tyres? 😯

    If it’s your first time trying to seal a tyre, it may take a while. Once you know what you’re doing, it’s a one minute, one handed job. Follow the videos on stans no tube website for some help.

    GW
    Member

    drill out to fit schreader rather than presta?

    Yep, or “Normal” as I prefer to call them. 😉

    GW
    Member

    It would be if they made one but they don’t. They do make a 2.35 minion single ply.

    That’s funny, coz I have a 2.5 single ply DHF on my bike right now.

    d45yth
    Member

    GSuperstar, do you get punctures often with your Stan’s setup? If not, stick with it…you’ll go back to getting puctures with tubes!
    Anyone who gets pinch puctures with UST tyres hasn’t got enough pressure in them.
    Using normal tyres tubeless should be left to cross country riders, burp your tyre off the rim and you’ll have to put a tube because the bead won’t re-seat.
    The ‘Genuine Innovations’ tyre plugs are a god send. If you start using a few of these though, either your tyres on its way out or you’ve got easily damaged tyres.
    Maxxis make the best UST tyres!!! They might wear a bit quick but do you want grip or longevity?
    Its got to the point where I hate riding with people using tubes…Living here in the rocky Lakes, I can’t be bothered with galoots who get 3-4 puctures each ride!
    Rant over, sorry.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    That’s funny, coz I have a 2.5 single ply DHF on my bike right now.

    I sold one of these too recently… Though in fairness, can’t see where you can buy then any more.

    Maxxis 2.5 UST tyres weigh something like 1.3kg each, the normal dual ply tyres which also run tubeless very well with sealant (I’d suggest about 100ml per tyre to make sure there’s enough) are about 1.1kg each iirc. Certainly a bit lighter anyway and worth investigating.

    To be fair GW when you said high pressures I’d imagined 40psi plus. RealMan some of us weigh more than 9 stone you know, I’d have to run minimum 30psi in 2.5’s to make sure I didn’t bend my rims constantly. Last time I went to the Alps I used some 2.35 Maxxis not 2.5’s and had to run the rear at about 36psi and even then I dented a rim slightly.

    spooky_b329
    Member

    Try changing to a Tubeless Ready tyre rather than UST.

    They are lighter and cheaper, the only downside is that they rely on the sealant to be airtight, but just about everyone runs sealant in UST tyres anyway!

    Bontrager has a good range, I’m running 2.35 FR3’s which are about £35 and a tad over 900g each. Under 800g if you cough up for the Team versions.

    RealMan
    Member

    To be fair GW when you said high pressures I’d imagined 40psi plus. RealMan some of us weigh more than 9 stone you know, I’d have to run minimum 30psi in 2.5’s to make sure I didn’t bend my rims constantly. Last time I went to the Alps I used some 2.35 Maxxis not 2.5’s and had to run the rear at about 36psi and even then I dented a rim slightly.

    I know, but most of the people I know who are running those sort of set ups in those sort of conditions are running anything as low as 8psi. I’m talking about 75kg+ guys too.

    GSuperstar
    Member

    Ok, current set-up:

    Front: NoTubes RimTape
    Maxxis Minion DHF Supertacky 2.5 42a UST

    Rear: NoTubes RimTape
    Maxxis Minion DHR 2.5 60a UST

    NoTubes Liquid

    With the hassle of UST, and the fear of having to take a tyre off just incase it decides to be a pain gong back on, has lead me to wondering if going to tubes would be more beneficial.

    I rarely run my tyre pressures that low anyway for fear of burping.

    My main concern, I’ll need to be running a 2.5 Innertube, will the overall weight of non UST Tyres + Innertube be massive over my current set-up?

    Am I heading back in time and away from useful technology?

    Your thoughts please 🙂

    geetee1972
    Member

    That’s funny, coz I have a 2.5 single ply DHF on my bike right now.

    You know what I stand corrected! Sorry for my error; the Maxxis website does indeed list them but I’ve never seen them for sale in the UK.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    minion dhf exo 3c are 2.5″ iirc damned expensive tho next days tyres appear to do some.

    some considerably cheaper single ply 2.5″ standard 42a would be nice…

    GW
    Member

    To be fair GW when you said high pressures I’d imagined 40psi plus

    I run a minimum of 40psi rear (but that’s with 2.35s and we’re talking about 2.5 tyres. I don’t really like 2.5 rear tyres)

    Premier Icon alfabus
    Subscriber

    You know what I stand corrected! Sorry for my error; the Maxxis website does indeed list them but I’ve never seen them for sale in the UK

    http://nextdaytyres.com/tyres/Maxxis/Minion-DHF.aspx

    Dave

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    That’s more than a World Cup DH racer runs – are you riding more hardcore terrain than them!?

    geetee1972
    Member

    are you riding more hardcore terrain than them!?

    Cleary not, but then I would wager my spleen that anyone posting here is also not riding as smoothly as they are either, hence the need to run higher pressures.

    IA
    Member

    as low as 8psi.

    Really? That must ride minging. That’d rip off the rim if you so much as glanced at a corner quickly.

    Premier Icon FOG
    Subscriber

    I have been running tubeless for about 4 years now and although I have had problems, I have never had to grovel at the trackside in p****ing rain changing an inner tube. Even after quite large thorns in the tyre I have always made it home. That makes the case for me.

    devs
    Member

    8 psi my hoop. 2.5 full fat USTs are bullet proof but heavy as. I only put them on for proper rides like CBM yesterday where it’s rocky. For normal most of the UK riding LUST or single ply tyres do. I have to keep the pressures fairly high in single ply tyres though as I’m 106Kg and and pretty clumsy.
    I started my CBM descent at the back yesterday as I was on a 456 hard tail when everyone else was full sussed. I finished 3rd behind 2 riding gods and passed everyone else with their upside down bikes. I used to pinch puncture at least once a ride. Staying tubeless is the only answer for me.

    RealMan
    Member

    He’s a very good rider, possibly the best I know. Very smooth. I was a bit surprised at 8psi, but he swore by it.

    I’ve run 12 or so before, and the grip is insane, but it felt weird, like you weren’t getting the same feedback, probably just wasn’t used to it. Usually run 20-25psi.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    alfabus – Member

    You know what I stand corrected! Sorry for my error; the Maxxis website does indeed list them but I’ve never seen them for sale in the UK

    http://nextdaytyres.com/tyres/Maxxis/Minion-DHF.aspx

    No supertackies though.

    If anyone can find a singleply 2.5 ST, let me know please!

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    I know, but most of the people I know who are running those sort of set ups in those sort of conditions are running anything as low as 8psi. I’m talking about 75kg+ guys too.

    I’ve run as low as 16psi in an old Michelin Comp 32 2.8″ tyre run in a full UST setup before, but I was only about 65kg back then. 8psi you’re making that up, I’m 75kg now and wouldn’t be able to run anything less than 30psi even in a 2.5″ tyre these days otherwise I’d just smash the rim up, or risk rolling the tyre off it.

    The only bike I can conceivably imagine running single figure tyre pressures on would be a Fatbike running those 3.7″ Surly Larry tyres.

    uplink
    Member

    If anyone can find a singleply 2.5 ST, let me know please!

    actionsports.de used to carry all flavours

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