Yes, I guess you’re right in that context, plus the traffic issue. I suppose I’d say it’s a different danger, you’re not pushing the limits on a social ride in the same way.

Judging by your comments you have never seen a pro peleton descend as they dont descend en mass,

They pretty much do – just strung out in a long line, which serves only to exaggerate the speed differences into corners, plus means each one is using more and more of the road, leaving a smaller margin for error. Look at how many of them just ride off the side of the road! Add in the nervousness of the first week, the virtual guarantee of rain (it is in the North after all) and the likelihood of at least a few mishaps is very high indeed.

But yes, they could all just sit up, bimble down the road and sprint for the town sign at the bottom. In fact, why bother racing at all?

Surely the limits and constraints of the space available will shift the focus from out-and-out speed to racecraft and tactics? It doesn’t have to be sheer speed that makes a race interesting.

I am riding over the strines on Saturday, I shall report back if I think it is dangerous.
obviously I will be travelling at speed…….. 😆

crazy-legs – Member

I’m genuinely interested in how a social ride of 30 riders is more dangerous than a pro-peleton of 198 though?

I can see his point on that one Nick. 30 riders of differing abilities riding as a group on open roads with the occasional idiot failing to call potholes or sprinting off for a road sign or wobbling while looking behind…

I’d prefer to be in a bunch of 198 pros on closed roads, at least you know that everyone else knows what they’re doing!

Edit:

Do you actually have any experience or are you like most just making up things ?

I’m well aware of how pelotons work thanks, I’ve been road racing for 15 years.

So you at least have qualified your abilities, and race I wont ask you to prove it I trust you even though I dont know you. But others make total bollox statements, I’ve ridden up and down a good few of the French cols and ride the Dales on a daily basis, I could say I’ve ridden in 200+ Peletons and ridden with winners of the Tour and the Vuelta. But maybe I’m making that up or do you trust me ?
That said I have descended off Kidstones I think 5 times this year and dont think it any more dangerous than descending the Aubisque which actually scared me at one point, riding at [inst speed you think I travel at] with 2 foot high concrete blocks protecting you from a couple of hundred [OK so it may have only been 150] of foot of vertical drop.

Edit:- BTW in a social ride I always go to the front on a descent as it is the safest place, wouldnt want bringing down at [again insert speed] it hurts.

Yep, just as someone on a construction site could refuse to go up some scaffolding, or a delivery driver could refuse to drive on certain roads.

Yes, just like that. What’s your point?

Edit:- BTW in a social ride I always go to the front on a descent as it is the safest place, wouldnt want bringing down at [again insert speed] it hurts.

Damn right! I’m not following someone else’s lines unless I absolutely trust them, but that’s the advantage of a social ride. In a race, a lot of people are wanting to do that, and that’s the trouble!

I don’t know what “knowing you” has to do with anything, nor having ridden with pro riders. FWIW, if it helps qualify my statements to you, I have also done my share of road racing, although don’t do much these days, and have ridden regularly with various pros, including TdF riders.

That said I have descended off Kidstones I think 5 times this year and dont think it any more dangerous than descending the Aubisque which actually scared me at one point

How much of that is about knowing it though? There’s a descent near me that’s rather steep, I’m confident I can let off the brakes and pedal into it, because I know it’s pretty straight and there’s nothing to get you into trouble. I don’t do it regularly (it’s a terrible waste of altitude in a very fast, but dull descent), but I still know it. Would I ride it the same way if I’d not seen it before? No. Would I ride it differently in a race? Yes, even though I know it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j03obuRAHiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYPDAry-A-s

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYPDAry-A-s[/video]

if they are good riders then they will pay attention and not ride into a wall. That’s what I do.

reggiegasket – Member
if they are good riders then they will pay attention and not ride into a wall. That’s what I do.

when the guy in front moves in a little when he avoids something in a tightly packed peleton at high speed?

when the guy in front moves in a little when he avoids something in a tightly packed peleton at high speed?

Then the rider needs to give himself more space to take into account the conditions. That’s what a good rider would do.

http://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/expert-analysis/crucial-first-week

I would just like to add, I rode the route over the strines on Saturday.
nice new fences to stop the pro’s falling over the edge, nice new tarmac to cover all the nasty potholes, and I did not feel threatened by the walls at all……. 8)

Not always the conditions, check out what happens when one rider slightly miss judges a curb. (Hilarious / awful commentary alert).

Paris – Roubaix crash

…and I did not feel threatened by the wall at all…at 2mph lol

One thing for sure they will not meet this on route

Ruined a tyre and a rather expensive helmet yesterday afternoon.

This thread is hilarious!

OBVIOUSLY those of you who’ve done a few club rides and competed in a few crits and races have a better perspective on the potential safety issues than Marcel Kittel. And you’re all definitely way harder than him. For sure.

Fabio Casartelli 1995
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg2wGZq2Dm4

http://visual.ly/deadly-turn-history-deaths-tour-de-france

OBVIOUSLY those of you who’ve done a few club rides and competed in a few crits and races have a better perspective on the potential safety issues than Marcel Kittel. And you’re all definitely way harder than him. For sure

Hopefully Giant-Shimano will get in touch with some of the double ‘ard lads on this forum – they can help them out with the tactics, maybe help give Kittel a pull round, advise him on how to sort out his sprinting etc, its a wonder Brailsford isn’t registered so Sky can benefit from the collective wisdom of the forum – marginal gains and all that!

One thing for sure they will not meet this on route

Is the Orica Green Edge bus driver not coming this year?

Kittel have you seen what you have to ride on in the Tour de Romandie ?

That looks a bit tight.

Not quite as bad as the killer Yorkshire roads,

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do foreign TDF riders need a portion of mtfu?
104 posts & 53 voices | Started 1 week ago by ton | Latest reply from Dales_rider
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Dales_rider – Member

warton – Member

22 teams, 9 riders a team. 200 riders. are your 30 mates all going flat out, fighting for position, being told by their DS to move up?
it’s laughable when people try to compare themselves to pro riders, and the pro peloton.

You are wrong on so many levels not the least your maths.
22 x 9 = 198
I have never tried comparing myself to the pro peleton.
For one I’m now too old and too heavy/unfit to go uphill at their pace, however I do know the roads they ride on both here and abroad and there is no significant difference in the danger levels descending them.
But I guess you know better

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post njee20 – Member

by a over zelous team car (IIRC) and maybe ask his opinion, I bet it’s “yeah lets ride!!”

It was a media car, but yes, point still stands.

Agree with the rest of the points. There are 198 starters in the tour, comparing riding in a social group of 30 is laughable.

You are wrong on so many levels not the least your maths.

Seriously? I don’t think people would dispute 198 being “a couple of hundred”, which you said there weren’t.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post Dales_rider – Member
Seriously? I don’t think people would dispute 198 being “a couple of hundred”, which you said there weren’t.

I think if you were flying in a plane and had fuel for 198 miles and the airport was 200 miles away lots of those on board would be disputing it.
Riding in a social group of 30+ is actually more dangerous than riding in a large peleton.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post warton – Member

Riding in a social group of 30+ is actually more dangerous than riding in a large peleton.

Jesus, are you joking? you must be, right?

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post chestrockwell – Member
Surley if any rider is worried they could drop back? If they choose to ride in the group then they must be happy-ish with the conditions. Oh, and before people jump in with ‘it’s a race’, ‘they’re under pressure’, ‘they have to fight for the front’ etc. etc. I know this, but it doesn’t change the fact that they could drop back if they felt it unsafe.

Talking of expensive campsites…. My friend has one in Masham and said she was charging normal rates in the hope that people would recommend them to people so once the Tour has been and gone her business keeps going.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post Dales_rider – Member

chestrockwell – Member

Surley if any rider is worried they could drop back?

That is what they do, very rare that a road race is won on a descent, lost yes. Being able to descend well can pull you back into the race as many have.
Like most riders the pro teams have good descenders, not sure that Kitell is one of them so would belly ache.

Edit:- people are camping on my land for free, if you know me you’re welcome. Doubt if I’ll get many takers on here though as its obvious no one does.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post crazy-legs – Member

however I do know the roads they ride on both here and abroad and there is no significant difference in the danger levels descending them.

I would suggest that there is a very significant difference.

You’re going downhill well within your capabilities on roads that you know. You know they’re open to traffic, you can change your line, drift across the road, brake, accelerate…

They’re going downhill at the limits of traction and speed on roads they don’t know, hemmed in by 197 other riders, countless cars / TV motos / spectators, their direction and speed are constrained by everyone else in the peloton and one mistake by another rider 20m away can cause a domino effect across the entire peloton.

About the one plus point in their favour is that they are pros and unlike the Mamil-fest that you see on the roads every weekend, these guys do actually now what they’re doing.

I’d say that’s very significantly different to you and a couple of dozen mates.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post njee20 – Member

I know this, but it doesn’t change the fact that they could drop back if they felt it unsafe.

Yep, just as someone on a construction site could refuse to go up some scaffolding, or a delivery driver could refuse to drive on certain roads.

I’m genuinely interested in how a social ride of 30 riders is more dangerous than a pro-peleton of 198 though?

Doubt if I’ll get many takers on here though as its obvious no one does.

Eh? Surely you know who you know on here? Or are you saying that people don’t “know” you because we’re not agreeing with your peculiar opinions?

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post Dales_rider – Member

crazy-legs – Member

however I do know the roads they ride on both here and abroad and there is no significant difference in the danger levels descending them.

I would suggest that there is a very significant difference.

Why ?

Judging by your comments you have never seen a pro peleton descend as they dont descend en mass,
Do you actually have any experience or are you like most just making up things ? Bet you dont even ride a bike, just come on here to argue for the sake of it, is your job that boring

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post crazy-legs – Member

I’m genuinely interested in how a social ride of 30 riders is more dangerous than a pro-peleton of 198 though?

I can see his point on that one Nick. 30 riders of differing abilities riding as a group on open roads with the occasional idiot failing to call potholes or sprinting off for a road sign or wobbling while looking behind…

I’d prefer to be in a bunch of 198 pros on closed roads, at least you know that everyone else knows what they’re doing!

Edit:

Do you actually have any experience or are you like most just making up things ?

I’m well aware of how pelotons work thanks, I’ve been road racing for 15 years.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post njee20 – Member
Yes, I guess you’re right in that context, plus the traffic issue. I suppose I’d say it’s a different danger, you’re not pushing the limits on a social ride in the same way.

Judging by your comments you have never seen a pro peleton descend as they dont descend en mass,

They pretty much do – just strung out in a long line, which serves only to exaggerate the speed differences into corners, plus means each one is using more and more of the road, leaving a smaller margin for error. Look at how many of them just ride off the side of the road! Add in the nervousness of the first week, the virtual guarantee of rain (it is in the North after all) and the likelihood of at least a few mishaps is very high indeed.

But yes, they could all just sit up, bimble down the road and sprint for the town sign at the bottom. In fact, why bother racing at all?

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post The Sanity Assassin – Member
Surely the limits and constraints of the space available will shift the focus from out-and-out speed to racecraft and tactics? It doesn’t have to be sheer speed that makes a race interesting.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post ton – Member
I am riding over the strines on Saturday, I shall report back if I think it is dangerous.
obviously I will be travelling at speed……..

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post njee20 – Member

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post Dales_rider – Member

crazy-legs – Member

I’m genuinely interested in how a social ride of 30 riders is more dangerous than a pro-peleton of 198 though?

I can see his point on that one Nick. 30 riders of differing abilities riding as a group on open roads with the occasional idiot failing to call potholes or sprinting off for a road sign or wobbling while looking behind…

I’d prefer to be in a bunch of 198 pros on closed roads, at least you know that everyone else knows what they’re doing!

Edit:

Do you actually have any experience or are you like most just making up things ?

I’m well aware of how pelotons work thanks, I’ve been road racing for 15 years.

So you at least have qualified your abilities, and race I wont ask you to prove it I trust you even though I dont know you. But others make total bollox statements, I’ve ridden up and down a good few of the French cols and ride the Dales on a daily basis, I could say I’ve ridden in 200+ Peletons and ridden with winners of the Tour and the Vuelta. But maybe I’m making that up or do you trust me ?
That said I have descended off Kidstones I think 5 times this year and dont think it any more dangerous than descending the Aubisque which actually scared me at one point, riding at [inst speed you think I travel at] with 2 foot high concrete blocks protecting you from a couple of hundred [OK so it may have only been 150] of foot of vertical drop.

Edit:- BTW in a social ride I always go to the front on a descent as it is the safest place, wouldnt want bringing down at [again insert speed] it hurts.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post chestrockwell – Member

Yep, just as someone on a construction site could refuse to go up some scaffolding, or a delivery driver could refuse to drive on certain roads.

Yes, just like that. What’s your point?

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post njee20 – Member

Edit:- BTW in a social ride I always go to the front on a descent as it is the safest place, wouldnt want bringing down at [again insert speed] it hurts.

Damn right! I’m not following someone else’s lines unless I absolutely trust them, but that’s the advantage of a social ride. In a race, a lot of people are wanting to do that, and that’s the trouble!

I don’t know what “knowing you” has to do with anything, nor having ridden with pro riders. FWIW, if it helps qualify my statements to you, I have also done my share of road racing, although don’t do much these days, and have ridden regularly with various pros, including TdF riders.

That said I have descended off Kidstones I think 5 times this year and dont think it any more dangerous than descending the Aubisque which actually scared me at one point

How much of that is about knowing it though? There’s a descent near me that’s rather steep, I’m confident I can let off the brakes and pedal into it, because I know it’s pretty straight and there’s nothing to get you into trouble. I don’t do it regularly (it’s a terrible waste of altitude in a very fast, but dull descent), but I still know it. Would I ride it the same way if I’d not seen it before? No. Would I ride it differently in a race? Yes, even though I know it.

Posted 6 days ago # Report-Post Macavity – Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j03obuRAHiM

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post Macavity – Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYPDAry-A-s

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post mikewsmith – Member

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYPDAry-A-s

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post Macavity – Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPV_epuKNbo

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post reggiegasket – Member
if they are good riders then they will pay attention and not ride into a wall. That’s what I do.

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post mikewsmith – Member

reggiegasket – Member
if they are good riders then they will pay attention and not ride into a wall. That’s what I do.

when the guy in front moves in a little when he avoids something in a tightly packed peleton at high speed?

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post reggiegasket – Member

when the guy in front moves in a little when he avoids something in a tightly packed peleton at high speed?

Then the rider needs to give himself more space to take into account the conditions. That’s what a good rider would do.

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post Macavity – Member
http://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/expert-analysis/crucial-first-week

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post ton – Member
I would just like to add, I rode the route over the strines on Saturday.
nice new fences to stop the pro’s falling over the edge, nice new tarmac to cover all the nasty potholes, and I did not feel threatened by the walls at all…….

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post dragon – Member
Not always the conditions, check out what happens when one rider slightly miss judges a curb. (Hilarious / awful commentary alert).

Paris – Roubaix crash

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post sputnik – Member
…and I did not feel threatened by the wall at all…at 2mph lol

Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post Dales_rider – Member
One thing for sure they will not meet this on route

Ruined a tyre and a rather expensive helmet yesterday afternoon.

Posted 21 hours ago # Report-Post stevious – Member
This thread is hilarious!

OBVIOUSLY those of you who’ve done a few club rides and competed in a few crits and races have a better perspective on the potential safety issues than Marcel Kittel. And you’re all definitely way harder than him. For sure.

Awe Fanx, you’ve clearly seen me rideout 😉