Want to fit fire alarm to ceiling.

Want to check there is a joist to screw into and also to makes sure I won’t hit random wires or pipes (old house had lots of modifications over the years)

Live wife and pipe detector

What is the plaster?

Board or lath and plaster?

The former i’d use the smallest of small rawl plugs and poke the hole in with a small srewdriver and gentle screwing motion.

The latter i’d just gobstraight in with a very small screw

Joist is totally unneccessary but the old poke a hole technique worksectremely well and costs a smear of pollyfilla at worst

As with JV I just drill a small hole straight in to the plaster.

You should not be going deep enough to trouble wires or pipes. Smoke detectors are so light they do not need joists etc to attach to.

Don’t know the plaster type how can I tell without making lots of mess?

Unless the house is old, it won’t be lath and plaster. If you can see joints every 6’*4′ it’s plasterboard.

how heavy is the alarm?? if a smoke detector then it’ll hang quite happily off a couple of rawl plugs into the plasterboard alone.

Can I respectfully disagree with the above and advise you to find the joist? We should try to get these little jobs right, for our own satisfaction and for wanting to create a home where things are done properly.

I wouldn’t be happy fitting a smoke detector into plaster. At some point you’ll have to change the battery. You’ll probably have to give the detector a good hard twist. Do you really want to worry about bringing a load of ceiling down on your head?

I’ve never needed a detector thingy – I’ve taken my cues from the position of light fittings and knocking on the wall/ceiling and listening out for the dull knocks which tell you you’re knocking on wood.

As someone has already said, if you drill and miss, it’s not a disaster – just a bit of filler required. Only screw to the depth of the plasterboard. Then, you will either hit wood or fresh air. Don’t keep pushing if it’s obvious you’re pushing into fresh air. Ceiling cavities contain wiring and plumbing 😉

Live wife and pipe detector

Sounds like fun.

call local fire service they will fit one for free*.

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* might cost you a cup of tea

where things are done properly.

Like fixing your clearly substandard plaster. 😆

>Can I respectfully disagree with the above and advise you to find the joist? We should try to get these little jobs right, for our own satisfaction and for wanting to create a home where things are done properly.<

What utter nonsense.

It’s a smoke detector he’s fitting not a crystal chandelier.

Here you go OP:

http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/products/lightweight-fixings/plasterboard-fixings/dra-self-drive-fixings/dra-metal/

Fire alarm as in smoke detector or a fully wired up alarm?

Haven’t got a clue about about the latter but if its a battery operated attach to the ceiling smoke detector a couple of dabs of no more nails hasn’t let me down in the last 15 years

No real need for drilling or poking holes anywhere for a smoke detector.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnet-Pad-Smoke-Detectors-TARGARIAN/dp/B00YT3Z1QC

@nealglover – even better 🙂

what utter nonsense

You know the bit where I said “respectfully disagree”? You should try it.

A chandelier, once fitted, will never need to be touched. As I’ve already said, but you didn’t address, a smoke detector needs a good shove when changing batteries. I wouldn’t be happy twisting into plaster.

And maybe we can discuss rationally, without feeling our manhood is being threatened or something.

Mine just flip open.

But from now on i’m getting those magnetty things up there^

Like fixing your clearly substandard plaster

Mate tell me about it. New build innit – this whole house will just dissolve in the rain one day 😀

But anyway – magnets/fire brigade and job’s a goodun 🙂

Not a great review for that magnet thing…. they are nest co2 and smoke detectors. With nightlight so I would like them in fairly specific places if I can

How to fit a smoke alarm (Wickes website)

TL:DR version:

1. Ideally screw into a joist.
2. If you can’t/don’t want to find a joist, put it anywhere you like using hollow wall plugs.

My 2p:

If the battery compartment of the detector is a light flip-down thing, and you don’t want to be arsed with joists, then put it where you like.

If the battery compartment is (like mine) accessed by stiffly unscrewing the whole thing to get at the insides, then find a joist and screw it in with wood screws through the plaster.

correct answer to lots of diy / plasterboard shenanigans

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-heavy-duty-setting-tool/8499G?kpid=8499G&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=Cj0KEQiAhNnCBRCqkP6bvOjz_IwBEiQAMn_TMYkgHX6fB_tFmKJaO56sMsvttol4wEOIDGhh7hBQIksaAuYK8P8HAQ

http://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-hollow-wall-anchors-m5-x-37mm-20-pack/99201?kpid=99201&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=Cj0KEQiAhNnCBRCqkP6bvOjz_IwBEiQAMn_TMVPiHVhV5qBKCUvoHCs5CgLS-KRV3TmxyOTQYJzQ2h0aAms48P8HAQ

Surely the screw for your average battery powered smoke detector would barely get through the plasterboard into the joist?

In any event move have been up 10 years plus with multiple battery changes and haven’t come down…

I think the live wire detector is called an apprentice…….

Let’s just agree to disagree eh Hebdoncyclist.

Smoke alarms need batteries changing, what, once every 5 years? I think if you hold the detector with one hand and open the casing with the other, no ripping should be required. I fix stuff to walls and ceiling’s daily and always use the correct fixings for whatever I’m fitting.

>correct answer to lots of diy / plasterboard shenanigans<

Seriously, you do not need interset fixings for a **** smoke alarm – trust me. They are generally for hanging big heavy things off stud, like shelving and radiator brackets – the pullout forces are massive. There’s no weight in a SA – 2 of the little screw – in anchors I linked to and the worst you can possibly do is rotate the alarm a few mil on the screw slots.

@ hebdoncyclist – Wickes is hardly the fount of wisdom on construction matters. With all due respect 😉

Those plasterboard screw in anchors aren’t brilliant though, they can have a tendency to break the plaster skim off and if ever you remove them they leave a bigger hole than an M4 interset would.
Intersets and the setting tools are a god-send in my book.

I fitted a Nest smoke detector a few months back, it was the mains version and even so they recommend changing it every 5 or 7 years. I just screwed it to the plasterboard and nobody’s died yet.
The screws that come with the Nest Protect are quite long.
Fitting instructions

Not a great review for that magnet thing

Probably user error.

I’ve got three and they’ve been up for years with no problem.
My brother has two and my dad has three. All without issue for years and numerous battery changes.

Nb my mate made me the best stud dectetor ever. Rare earth magnet glued to a champange cork. The magnet sticks to the screws in the pboard into the joist. Brilliant thing and buttons to make.
And for what its worth i would use the joist for this..

Those plasterboard screw in anchors aren’t brilliant though, they can have a tendency to break the plaster skim off

Yep. They can make a right bloody mess. I find a good pilot hole eases (but doesn’t elmininate) this.

But I still wouldn’t use them for fitting stuff to the ceiling. I mean, why would you when there are perfectly good joists?

Wickes is hardly the fount of wisdom on construction matters. With all due respect

Whereas you are? 😆

It comes down to personality. “It’ll probably be OK” doesn’t sit easily with me. If I have to fix something, I will fix it to the most stable and secure medium available. In a choice between plasterboard or wood, it’s (obviously) the wood.

Work on your own home however you like – I have no intention of falling out with you over it. We have both made our cases – the OP can decide. 😉

neighbour had the fire brigade fix his detector to ceiling for free they used grip fill, new neighbour didnt want the thing, so pulled it of along with the plaster skim, concrete ceiling in most apartments around here.

and a customer a few years ago put 2 screws straight through a water pipe in his ceiling one of those bloody stupid plastic pipes undetectable by a pipe detector.

Why not screw to top of door frame or fix to wall, smoke does rise.

If you are fitting a smoke detector please make sure it’s located in a suitable place as they won’t work right poorly placed (I’ve seen them on bookshelves!)

Approx 1ft from walls and lights, on the ceiling. Ideally avoid outside kitchen and bathrooms due to steam/ toast.

Minimum of 1 per floor usually in hallway/ landing.

Good time to mention a ‘home escape plan’ too.

Details here Hampshire fire and rescue

I do this for a living and deal with the results too

>But I still wouldn’t use them for fitting stuff to the ceiling. I mean, why would you when there are perfectly good joists?<

Umm see Luumox’s post

Seriously though, it’s a little plastic fitting which weights the square root of **** all. Yes, by all means screw the bloody thing to a joist if that’s your thing but other methods are available.

Glue?

I would think optimum location of smoke alarm would be somewhere central with good access for testing / changing batteries. Which may or may not be where the studs are located.

I hate screwing things into plasterboard usually, but a smoke alarm is fine.

Good grief it a smoke alarm that’s getting fitted not the construction of the office block.

2 screws, sometimes just the 1 into plasterboard on the ceiling away from nuisance areas such as cooking/showering etc.

And move on.

Tools needed….. a phone to call local fire service. Or a a screw driver to fit the shitty screws that come with the purchased alarm.

Recently I’ve always stuck them up with strong double sided tape. I’m happy to be corrected but I’m guessing that if there is a fire that causes them to unstick then they should have done their job by then.

Bit of a debate….I’ll try the pilot hole approach hopefully it will be wood I find not a plastic pipe!

Also bought one of those chain ladders to use from an upstairs window. For £40 I thought was worth the piece of mind.

Why the paranoia? Wife’s colleague had the front of his house set on fire by kids who torched a stolen motorbike in his front garden. He was woken by the sound of crackling and popping. Either he didn’t have alarms or they didn’t work…possibly as it was an external source

Chain ladder.. really???

If it makes you feel safer then fine but in reality will you use it, I’d suggest a trail run just to see how you and your family get on using it. Been to so many houses with them and they are still wrapped up in a box. Personally I think they are a waste of money a prey on your worries.

A correctly placed smoke alarm(s) will give you move than enough warning of any fire within or external breaking through to make your escape.

I do suggest you contact you local fire service for a free visit they will discuss fire action plan and fit detectors for free.

It’s what we do, once we’ve finished sleeping, playing snooker and washing cars.