Diverting a small watercourse?!

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  • Diverting a small watercourse?!
  • djglover
    Member

    Anyone done this, seems a spring has appeared over winter and is running down our garden. We live on a hillside.

    There is a sewerage manhole cover around 8 meters downhill offset by around 5 meters, is it as simple as digging and lining a trench to the manhole and filling with gravel?

    Sounds too easy?

    johndoh
    Member

    Gravel alone will clog up over time – you need a land drain.

    http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain16.htm

    globalti
    Member

    It will probably dry up in summer so why spend lots of time and money on it? For the short term, build a channel down the garden away from the house. For the longer term dig a ditch and put in a plastic pipe.

    Not sure if you’re allowed to divert it into the sewer though.

    Premier Icon midlifecrashes
    Subscriber

    Yep, that easy. Although it would quite likely result in raw sewage rising into your neighbour’s properties. Best find somewhere else to aim it.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    is it as simple as digging and lining a trench to the manhole and filling with gravel?

    I think it’s illegal to divert ground water into a sewer. Your water company won;t like it very much.

    Also, you need building regs for any new work connecting to an existing drain now. The council won’t like it very much.

    You’ll possibly end up causing the sewers to overflow and cause pollution. The Environment Agency won’t like it very much.

    johndoh
    Member

    BTW, every time my father in law has this (he has a very large garden) it is because something has broken (water pipe fractured, drain collapsed somewhere etc.

    So, despite it being a very wet winter (that could be the cause), other causes *may* require investigating.

    Premier Icon momo
    Subscriber

    wwaswas – Member
    is it as simple as digging and lining a trench to the manhole and filling with gravel?

    I think it’s illegal to divert ground water into a sewer. Your water company won;t like it very much.

    Also, you need building regs for any new work connecting to an existing drain now. The council won’t like it very much.

    You’ll possibly end up causing the sewers to overflow and cause pollution. The Environment Agency won’t like it very much.

    This is correct answer, do not divert a spring into the sewer, it’ll cause a lot of problems, your lateral conection will only be a small bore pipe (typically 100mm) it will cause you problems and your neighbours if it is a shared drain, sewer flooding is not fun, trust me, I’ve been out to more than my fair share of flooded houses.

    Any ‘new’ connection to the sewer would need to have a formal application made (typical application cost c£500-£1000 depending on company) if this is not gained you can be forced to remove the connection at your own cost.

    konagirl
    Member

    As above, don’t discharge it into the sewer, even if it is a combined drain. You need all sorts of permissions. Also best to refer to it as groundwater flooding or as JohnDoh points out, could be from a number of other sources. If it is a substantial flow of water then it could well be a burst pipe – speak to your local water company to see if they have recorded a drop in pressure in your network.

    In the mean time if it is running close to your house, you do have a right to protect your property within reason, so you could channel it temporarily or with a french drain to a soakaway. Do you have greenfield at the bottom of the hill you could divert it towards or is it a neighbour’s garden? If the latter you need to speak with them, because you can’t just discharge onto some else’s land if it then poses a risk to their property. Obviously.

    wrightyson
    Member

    How old are the properties?

    djglover
    Member

    Thanks for the advise above, will obviously not be running to the sewer now!

    the properties are 2 years old.

    Springs rise at random throughout the area (ilkley moor) and fairy certain this is just a natural spring as it happened on a neighbouring property.

    The only implication at the moment is its ruining the lawn, the house is fine

    Tempted to leave over summer and see if it dries up

    wrightyson
    Member

    Therefore the manhole and subsequent run will be gravelled up accordingly. I’d dig a small channel up to the mhole and let the surrounding gravel take the excess water away. This will have no affect on the drains whatsoever as in theory they are a sealed system between mholes.
    And no you don’t need planning for that!

    Pigface
    Member

    Could be down to heightened groundwater, best leave it alone or give the E.A. a shout and ask for some advice

    johndoh
    Member

    the properties are 2 years old.

    Speak to the builders?

    wrightyson
    Member

    The builders would tell you to whistle I feel. Especially after the recent heavy rain.

    johndoh
    Member

    Possibly, but worth asking – they built next to a dirty great hill, shouldn’t they at least consider land drainage. Must be worth asking?

    qwerty
    Member

    Del Boy?

    Peckham spring water innit.

    globalti
    Member

    Yes; bottle it and sell it as spring water. Make sure you sell it at a very high price or it will taste terrible.

    core
    Member

    johndoh

    Unless there is a retaining wall, or basement situation, land drainage is not a house builders responsibility, rain water coming off the property yes, but springs and the like, not a chance.

    slowjo
    Member

    globalti – Member

    Yes; bottle it and sell it as spring water. Make sure you sell it at a very high price or it will taste terrible.

    😆

    djglover
    Member

    Just out of builders warranty and into premier guarantee unfortunately. Spoke to the E.A. they were a bit Meh and seemed happy for it to be diverted

    wrightyson
    Member

    Do as I advised. Perfectly acceptable. The water will make its way down the existing trench and basically soak away with the rest of the water that is making its way either in there or via other underground means.
    The only time land drainage would be required was if it was part of the planning agreement or whether someone such as an engineer of the project said it was necessary after initial site investigations.

    djglover
    Member

    will do, thanks for the advice

    globalti
    Member

    djglover’s house tomorrow, following advice from STW forum members:

    b r
    Member

    In the mean time if it is running close to your house, you do have a right to protect your property within reason, so you could channel it temporarily or with a french drain to a soakaway.

    I did this last year, had to put in over 30m to get it around though. We’ve no neighbour to bother, but be careful just ‘moving’ the problem.

    Premier Icon Kona TC
    Subscriber

    Being a modern house I am going to make the leap of faith that the sewage manhole in your garden is also new. If that’s the case the pipe will be surrounded by either gravel and/or sand

    So directing the stream to the vicinity of the drain should allow the gravel around the pipe to act as a soak away and as drains only work by flowing downhill the drain in your garden will eventually meet a larger sewage drain and by default a larger soak away.

    How do I know this, in my last house we had a water leak at the stop cock in the pavement and the excess water was using the gravel around a sewage pipe from my house as the path of least resistance in draining away . It was only when the water board came to investigate, as there was a continual increase in water consumption, did we realise there was a leak, the engineer chap said it quite common for leaks to go unnoticed for many months or even years as excess water uses gravel around pipe to dissipate .

    mt
    Member

    Why not divert it into your front garden, dig a hole build a low wall round it put a cute little roof over the top and watch it flood in. Money that is as you will have your own wishing well. Just think of the water as a necessary your money pits credibility.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    If it’s off Ilkley Moor, it has magical healing properties and folks will travel for miles to ‘take the waters’. Build a plunge pool and watch it fill up with loose change.

    TooTall
    Member

    Do as I advised. Perfectly acceptable. The water will make its way down the existing trench and basically soak away with the rest of the water that is making its way either in there or via other underground means.

    Perfectly acceptable, unless you are responsible for the pipe and the additional water ends up washing the gravel away and fracturing the pipe. Given that installing clay stanks down a pipe run is designed to stop water running down the length of a gravel pipe bed, intentionally putting extra water there is not a great idea in the long term.

    wrightyson
    Member

    Where’s it going to wash the gravel to? Back to the sea?
    I recently went to repair a connection off a 63mm town main that we’d put in to supply a sprinkler tank. The connection was providing the feed to the factory and had split. It was pumping water out at serious pressure. Funnily enough there wasn’t a big hole around it where the gravel had washed away.
    In some scenarios I wouldn’t suggest the above but i dont think we’re talking a continuous high pressure main leaking.
    However if your drains do collapse I was wrong 😉

    TooTall
    Member

    Well I designed and supervised the construction of such things for a couple of years on behalf of Northumbrian Water and they were the guidelines and reasoning for clay stanks every 100m or so.

    It also can add to flooding elsewhere as the water is being forced into a more direct route to another point, like straightening water courses.

    shamus
    Member

    Check historical records and look for evidence of a small drainage culvert in the area which could have passed through the development, which is now obstructed by the properties and surrounding infrastructure. We attended site recently and proved the existence of what was a small drainage channel, from nearby moor and agricultural land, which has essentially had a house constructed across it creating a dam. No problem for 3 years, eventually the water started trying to retake its existing course. Straight through a 1st time buyers pride and joy.

    If you can prove it, fixing it becomes the developers responsibility as they have, in essence, diverted it without consent.

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