sometimes there’s 2,000 visitors through the door in one day

Good going.  You’ve beaten Starbucks almost 4x over (Average US location =  503 cups per day)

Surely that could fund a dishwasher?

Plastic, but look reusable and ready for branding.

http://www.outstandingbranding.co.uk/drinkware/travel-mugs/americano-medio-mug.html

Should stack away for storage nicely as well.

But plastic might be a deal beaker  breaker.

What seems to be the sticking point for me in this example is the view that the customers can provide the solution, by buying biodegradable or recyclable/reusable cups.

I know the bottled gas/no mains water is an issue but it would be better to find a solution to wash mugs and eliminate the production of waste in the first place.

15,000 cups a year is quoted but then 2000 customers on a busy day, if its just popular weekends etc rather than a steady trickle of customers everyday, this almost makes it easier to deal with the washing up side as you have the money coming in to cover the hassle/cost.  You could start with using washable mugs on busy days and stay with disposables when there is only limited staff onsite.

Really interesting comments.

As a coffee consumer and a regular visitor to places like costa I have to say that I don’t own a reusable cup. Doing so means I have to carry it with me and that means ive got to clean it as well. It would just stay in the cupboard at home or worse end up in the bin.

If I was having a coffee inside I would like a proper cup / mug that I would return. If im out and about I want to dispose of it not carry it about. The only way it would work is if visiting an attraction and there was some kind of deposit return scheme.

But not all bad things are equally bad everywhere.

For example a plastic cup in landfill, its a waste of plastic but it does zero harm other than taking up space. Recycling is better (and reusing even better) but landfill is a legitimate solution.

A composting cup (paper, veg, bamboo, whatever) decomposes and releases methane, as greenhouse gas emissions go you would be much much better off burning them (but composting sounds better to the sort of people who buy this stuff).

So in places like Norway they adopt policies which aim for zero landfill because they are forced to by the lack of any suitable sites. Not a problem the UK has generally.

A good example is glass bottles. You use more energy driving a weeks bottles to the bottlebank than is saved recycling them (vs new glass). So you have to consider which is the problem you need to solve glass going to landfill, or CO2 emissions.

You use more energy driving a weeks bottles to the bottlebank than is saved recycling them (vs new glass).

I use zero energy driving to the glass recycling box in my hallway.  I thought doorstep collection was pretty much nationwide now?

 I thought doorstep collection was pretty much nationwide now?

Not for glass. We had collection in Edinburgh but not in the Highlands.

We’ve just started selling these.

The mug collapses down and has a secure lid so that the dregs don’t leak out.

Pop in and buy one.

Good points tinas.

I have a friend who bangs on on social media about ‘morons’ who don’t recycle properly and use disposable cups (bored at home with two small kids so I suspect she needs needs a rant outlet) yet thinks nothing of jumping on a plane to visit her sister in NZ. There is a lot of hypocrisy amongst the environmentally vocal and also not a lot of common sense. I’m all up for making the world a more environmentally sound place but carrier bags and disposable cups are pretty vacuous places to spend our energy. Yet if we solve these two demons the dim public will think we are half way to environmental utopia.

Crumbs convert, my ears are burning.  Will reply when my blood pressure’s dropped.

 I’m all up for making the world a more environmentally sound place but carrier bags and disposable cups are pretty vacuous places to spend our energy. Yet if we solve these two demons the dim public will think we are half way to environmental utopia.

Blame St David of Attenborough. If he had focussed on the environmental cost of flying rather than disposable plastics then he and his TV crew might have had some well-justified claims of hypocrisy laid at their door.

carrier bags and disposable cups are pretty vacuous places to spend our energy

I’m not convinced that I agree, but in any case, does that make it a bad idea?

The alternative to “hopping on a plane” is someone never seeing their sister ever again.  That’s a life-changing situation.  The alternative to not having free carrier bags is paying 5p or sticking an old one in your pocket, big whoop.  These changes might not change the world, but it’s a positive change and it’s easy so why not do it?

TBF the life-changing situation was the sister hopping on the plane in the first place. can’t say i blame her but you can bet the words ‘it’s only a plane ride away’ will have come out of her mouth at some point. if plane rides weren’t a relatively cheap, easy thing to do, maybe she would have considered her choice more carefully?

anyway. the hound of ‘the basket meals’ uses a vast array of old mugs, and a washing up bowl, and a generator, and brings it’s own water. not sure how hard it really is TBH.

https://goo.gl/images/Lr94DA

sigh. how do pictures work please?

Right-click, “Copy image address,” paste.

 a generator

Running off bio-ethanol, obviously…..

I’m not convinced that I agree, but in any case, does that make it a bad idea?

No it doesn’t; as you can see from the long rambling post I put up last night on the subject I have given it some thought too. But, and for me it’s a big but, by listing the environmental ills almost in bullet point style we lose sight of the fact that they are not equally naughty. Carrier bags might be a relatively easy win as it’s a simple thing to change but we shouldn’t be giving ourselves too much of a pat on the back about it or go chastising others for not being ‘on point’. In reality it’s an infinitesimal drop in the ocean in comparison to other issues. Some yummy mummy banging on about the awful oiks that still buy/use them, and how easy it is to be a better person and buy locally produced veg and then conveniently forget the fact that their husband is smashing out 30K miles a year in the car to commute to the office so they can live in an evironmentally friendly life in a leafy glade in the shires is living a very hypocritical life but feeling ever so pious and evangelical doing so. The general public need properly educating about the life choices that are properly bolloxing up the planet and not being allowed to feel smug about the minutia.

It simply isn’t possible for anyone to be washing cups due to limited space and being unable to heat water as the burners are at full capacity.  Additionally we’d need a lot of cups and, to be blunt, I don’t think anyone would want to do washing up as we struggle with volunteers as it is.   No chance of a dishwasher unless it can run off a generator as there’s no electricity.

Yes, there are disposable cups that will go in a compost bin but who has a compost bin and will they take them?  Bear in mind that half drunk cups get placed in the rubbish bin, would anyone be prepared to sift through them?  Not exactly a pleasant job.

My other concern is local Councils and any potential changes to the recycling service.  We all know they’re strapped for cash and with leaving the EU the target of recycling 50% of waste presumably will no longer apply so I guess there’s the possibility that doorstep collections could go the way of the dodo.  Household waste could be an earner dependent on bin size.  I’m not sure that we should take these services for granted.

Bunnyhop good post and totally agree with you.

zippykona those are a great idea but far too expensive.

convert not everybody lives in that manner and don’t believe for one minute that people feel smug about the minutiae as you call it.  My generation were certainly responsible for enabling an economy to be based on consumerism, a huge amount of ignorance due to a ‘having it all’ attitude.  It’s now biting us on the bum so, yeah, I’m trying to lead a more responsible and hopefully kinder life with the choices I have to make.  I’ll stop now.

Why would you need to wash on site? Could you not do what Matt said some time back and buy enough (hopfully stackable and space efficient) mugs to handle a day’s trading and negotiate cheap washing through an industrial machine in a hotel etc in an off peak period?

Either that or……..if the envionmental impact of the enterprise is no longer compatible with the ethics of the volunteers does it need to cease trading? Put the effort into rattling tins or another fund raiser that you are more at peace with environmentally.

and don’t believe for one minute that people feel smug about the minutiae as you call it.

We’ll have to disagree there. Way too many people fiddle around the edges of their lifestyle to mollify their conscience conveniently ignoring the heard of elephants in the room. Cups and carrier bags is just a bit of fiddling. I’m all up for a bit of fiddling but see it for what it is – it’s hardly getting to third base.

 The alternative to not having free carrier bags is paying 5p or sticking an old one in your pocket saving about 20g of hydrocarbons and driving the 5 miles to the supermarket in a car burning ~1kg of petrol big whoop.

FTFY

Same could be said for CG’s coffee shop (no idea where it is but I suspect people drive there).

I’d go with offering re-usable mugs (and discount coffee in them), and keep with the disposables for everyone else.

AND offer a discount* for anyone who’s cycled/walked there (because this is a far bigger impact than what type of cup they drink from).

*I know one national Trust park has stopped charging vehicle entry and now charges park entry per person**, completely disincentivizing car sharing, it’s bonkers. Its even worse than places that offer to pay for your parking if you use some other attraction, like shopping centers.  If you want to charge £4 for parking, fine, but give me £4 off my shopping too for coming by bike!

**this was supposed to apply to everyone, but for practical reasons obviously only works for cars.

convert there’s very little space unfortunately with supplies very much squashed together.  Washing off site is a good idea but obviously would entail someone being prepared to do that.  It’s a bit strong to talk about ethics of volunteers, there’s nothing wrong with asking can we do this differently/more environmentally friendly etc. but, to be clear, it’s me asking this question.

People by nature are lazy with changing their habits but it can be done.  Sure, cups and carrier bags may be small fry compared to polluting vehicles and planes etc but it’s a step in the right direction, obviously helped by the likes of Blue Planet.  It can lead to bigger things.  I’d be really interested to hear about any changes you’ve made or have planned.

I’d be really interested to hear about any changes you’ve made or have planned.

Main change was actively electing to have both of us living and working in the same town at the expense of potential higher pay/ promotion/job security opportunities or maybe even work pleasure. It’s working out for us at the moment but I have to confess in addition to the environmental angle we enjoy both not being commuters on anything other than a bike. We have vowed that we’ll make this a priority for the rest of our working lives. I think at the moment in purely financial terms it’s costing us circa £5K pa in our pockets when you balance reduced income potential and reduced transport costs. At our worst environmentally we were collectively doings about 25K miles commuting which is not a lot compared to some but it’s a small difference.  Most other changes to do with food/consumables choices pale into insignificance after that and are probably not worth typing out in the grand scheme of things. There is still a shed load of sin in out lives.

I use zero energy driving to the glass recycling box in my hallway.  I thought doorstep collection was pretty much nationwide now?

Not in dumfries and galloway, they are **** useless , there is practically zero collections for any/all recyclable material and its a 26 mile return journey for me to recycle stuff

Dumfries and galloway recycling cock-up